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-   -   POLL Nyquist (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1380685)

RedWingsNow* 03-20-2013 09:38 AM

POLL Nyquist
 
All of the sudden, I notice guys are down on Nyquist.
He wasn't overwhelming in his last trip to Detroit, but I thought he was OK as he bounced around the lineup.

So I have a poll question (above), and I have a second question (below)

Has your assessment of Nyquist's future gone up or down or is it unchanged since the end of last season?



The one thing I would say, watching Nyquist and Tatar, is that I think earlier thinking about these two guys was wrong
Earlier, people said Nyquist was a puckhound who will be a solid NHLer even if he's not a point producer. But I'm not sure that's the case at all. Others have suggested that Tatar was a boom or bust pick.
In fact, Tatar strikes me more as a guy who could play on an energy line while producing offense. (though I think he'd leave for NHL before playing that role very long in the NHL)

GoAwayDanCleary 03-20-2013 09:46 AM

2nd line player.

Though I believe Tatar is going to be the better player. Some of that has to do with the way Babcock is going to treat Nyquist - Jiri Hudler 2.0.

ChadS 03-20-2013 09:47 AM

Unchanged, I think he'll be a 2nd liner. Had he played more for Detroit, he'd be ready at the start of 2013-2014. Now he's going to need some time to adapt.

I agree, Tatar is more useful as he's capable of playing different roles. Nyquist is basically pure offense, at least at the moment.

Kronwalled55 03-20-2013 09:48 AM

2nd line player. I liked what I saw from Nyquist last season, and I hope he can start playing similar to that. (if he gets to play more games consecutively, of course)

France Nielsen 03-20-2013 09:50 AM

Nyquist can be a good second line guy. But he needs the right linemates, much more than Tatar does. Nyquist badly needs a Holmstrom-type to help him out.

Jurky 03-20-2013 09:56 AM

I voted 2nd line player but I think it really depends on the team.
If it's a playoff team he'll be a good 2nd liner, if its a ****** team I can see him being serviceable as a 1st liner, and if the team is a powerhouse rolling 3 scoring lines he'd probably be a 2nd/3rd line tweener.

BinCookin 03-20-2013 10:00 AM

2nd liner, but we will never know until he plays 60+ games in ONE season.

Same goes for Tatar.

RedWingsNow* 03-20-2013 10:18 AM

I'm unsure at the moment. He definitely has puck skills. And I think he was better in his recent stint than people have given him credit for. At the same time, he wasn't impressive. I don't see him moving his feet much. He plays a patient game, as opposed to Tatar's urgent game.
I just assumed he'd be a second liner or more. But something about his game looks like it might have difficulty translating in the NHL.

I think he can still be a second liner. But I don't think he's big/strong/fast enough to offer much unless he's producing.

InjuredChoker 03-20-2013 10:25 AM

2nd liner, unchanged from last year. Complementary first liner on career years.

Shadywing19 03-20-2013 10:26 AM

I needed an option for too hard to tell. I think he has great potential. But has yet to really impress. One could make the argument that he hasn't had much of an opportunity when up. Ie. limited 3rd line roll. But I think we can all agree Tatar played same minutes on same line. And was much more successful. I won't give up on him. But if he can be packaged in a deal for a lucic-like top six forward. Or a legit 1 or 2 dman. (Both under the age of 30) I wouldn't hesitate.

DatsyukToZetterberg 03-20-2013 10:47 AM

There's no option on the poll for it but I think he'll end up being a first/second line tweener. Not an elite superstar but he should be a player like Filppula, winger verison, he has shown the ability to be able to score at all levels and I still think he'll be a 55-70 point guy with maybe even a 75+ season in his career year.

His time in the NHL hasn't really changed my opinion on him because he was only giving >=10 minutes on the ice & Nyquist more so than Tatar is top 6 or nothing. Nyquist plays his best when playing with other skilled players, he doesn't have the make up to be able to really play the grind it out hard forecheck style that Babcock wants for our bottom 6. My hope is next year that we roll with a top 9 and 1 grind line rather then the top 6 bottom 6 divide we have going on now.

The other thing is that right now he isn't able to carry a line at the NHL but he's showing that he can not only carry a line he can carry a team at the AHL level. Yeah he's taking a little while longer to adjust but it's not his fault as he has been jerked around quite a bit this year, in the same way Tatar was last year.

We have to remember that just because a player has a rough patch that doesn't mean the potential that was once there has magically vanished. Look at Nino Niederreiter, 1 point all of last year in the NHL to putting up a respectable 45 points in 60 games. I think we should temper our expectations a bit with Nyquist as it's a bit harder for him to adjust then someone like Tatar who already has experience playing at a best on best level. I'll admit I was guilty for thinking he would set the world on fire this year but when he's not really given an opportunity how can he truly succeed?

TLDR; First line forward who still has 55-70 point potential, it may not be with us but he still has the potential to do it.

GT500x 03-20-2013 11:03 AM

I expect Nyquist to amount to a great 3rd liner that can play on the 2nd line occasionally. I think his lack of size and strength keep him from playing his game effectively at the NHL level. I'd love to be proven wrong however.

Eastopia 03-20-2013 11:04 AM

IMO it's unfair to judge him based on his performance in the NHL this year, much less to compare it to that of Tatar, as he hasn't been allowed to get a string of consecutive games going like Tatar has. It's been up for a game, play a few minutes, then back down to the AHL again for him - not always even having the privilege of training with the team before puck drop. I wouldn't hold it against anyone in his position if they failed to produce.

That being said, I've never actually seen him play outside of Red Wings games so I have only stats to go by. For this reason I haven't put any line expectation on the kid myself and I can't do it now either, so I guess my view of his future is unchanged. :sarcasm:

VladTheImpaler 03-20-2013 11:10 AM

2nd line player that is capable of routinely posting between 50-60 pts.

RedMenace 03-20-2013 11:28 AM

So basically Nyquist is "Filppula 2.0," who was supposed to be "Zetterberg Lite?"

My brain hurts.

SirloinUB 03-20-2013 11:33 AM

Nyquist got the elusive, realgood tag:

“He’s got some skill, he’s obviously a real good player,'' Babcock said.

GoAwayDanCleary 03-20-2013 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirloinUB (Post 62032261)
Nyquist got the elusive, realgood tag:

“He’s got some skill, he’s obviously a real good player,'' Babcock said.

Yet you scratch him. Hypocrit.

The Zetterberg Era 03-20-2013 12:05 PM

I still think he is a first line forward and I still think he is better than Tatar. Nyquist is guilty of what Tatar was a couple years ago when he made it up to Detroit for a nice cameo and was still playing nicely in the AHL afterward in my opinion. He thought he had arrived and he thought he had earned Babcock trust.

I think he was better in his last call up. We will see, part of how Nyquist will play is controlling the pace, that is what he does. That is a harder thing to do on the spot and while still learning the NHL level, but I still have a lot of faith he will do it. He is a Ray Whitney type player in my opinion, a lot more slippery now but Whitney used to be able to do some of that stuff as well.

mindfly 03-20-2013 12:08 PM

What's the difference between first and second line really? They get the same amount of icetime.

I voted Tweener, because I think Järnkrok will be that rare young second liner

Assesment of Nyquist has been the same since last season.

Edge of Sanity* 03-20-2013 12:29 PM

I'd like to see him traded. I don't think he's a guy that can play in the NHL, he's too much of a perimeter player, he's incredibly weak, his shot isn't that good... he just doesn't have the tools to play in the NHL. Should trade him ASAP before his value falls off.

SoupNazi 03-20-2013 12:45 PM

Second liner.

GoAwayDanCleary 03-20-2013 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timeghoul (Post 62035511)
I'd like to see him traded. I don't think he's a guy that can play in the NHL, he's too much of a perimeter player, he's incredibly weak, his shot isn't that good... he just doesn't have the tools to play in the NHL. Should trade him ASAP before his value falls off.

He's not that weak - still needs to get stronger though - and he drives the net often... are you just assuming these things because he's small? He doesn't play a perimeter oriented game.

Flowah 03-20-2013 01:20 PM

This is impossible to answer. We have no real indication of what kind of player he can be in the NHL. He's a stud in the AHL but that's a far cry from direct translation into the big time.

And his one game here, one game there, call up, play on different lines in the same game, sent down, recall, bullcrap doesn't give him or us a fair look at evaluating him.

He needs a solid consecutive batch of games with consistent linemates to show us what he really us. Until then, everything else is really just a guess.

I'll point out though, that many in the past couple years ragged on Kindl. But after being given a real opportunity this year, I'd say he's impressed most with his progression and has actually played pretty solid outright. I'll never understand how anyone in management or coaching or here can say they've got a handle on a player who plays one game at a time every once in a while. He needs time to gel.

Quote:

Nyquist got the elusive, realgood tag:

“He’s got some skill, he’s obviously a real good player,'' Babcock said.
Nonono. That's "real good" not "realgood." An easy mistake to make, but the difference is huge. Nyquist obviously hasn't earned "realgood" yet and so isn't ready.

Quote:

So basically Nyquist is "Filppula 2.0," who was supposed to be "Zetterberg Lite?"
And if 2.0 means an improved version, as it almost always does, then does that mean Nyquist is Zetterberg?

Eternal Sunshine 03-20-2013 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flowah (Post 62038347)
And if 2.0 means an improved version, as it almost always does, then does that mean Nyquist is Zetterberg?

We will see how his gain-the-line-with-speed-then-turn-around-and-peel-back-and-needlessly-slow-the-play-down is when he gets here:sarcasm:

RedWingsNow* 03-20-2013 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 62034153)
I still think he is a first line forward and I still think he is better than Tatar. Nyquist is guilty of what Tatar was a couple years ago when he made it up to Detroit for a nice cameo and was still playing nicely in the AHL afterward in my opinion. He thought he had arrived and he thought he had earned Babcock trust.

I think he was better in his last call up. We will see, part of how Nyquist will play is controlling the pace, that is what he does. That is a harder thing to do on the spot and while still learning the NHL level, but I still have a lot of faith he will do it. He is a Ray Whitney type player in my opinion, a lot more slippery now but Whitney used to be able to do some of that stuff as well.

I don't think Gus has Ray's early speed though. Whitney was a speed demon in the day


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