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-   -   Jordan Staal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1382243)

Aiastelmon 03-22-2013 12:03 AM

Jordan Staal
 
And man was I thankful we dodged the bullet of that albatross contract that they gave J. Staal. I know a lot of you guys love him, but the guy has clearly regressed, and is not playing anywhere near that contract. His offensive instincts seem non-existent, his hands are awful, and his defense is about as bad as during the Philly playoff series. Not to mention that goal he scored into his own net was the last one he's had for about a month.

He just seems to drive into the O zone and center a blind pass every single time in, usually starting a break the other way. And it's not like he's playing with slouches either. And I have no idea what he's trying to prove on the power play, hanging around the perimeter and taking bad angle shots. Carolina's PP is awful this year (29th) and I see why.

On the other hand, Sutter has been fantastic, and could clearly benefit from even a little more help from linemates. I think the trade would have been a win even up, and that Sutter has a higher ceiling than Staal.

Harv 03-22-2013 12:19 AM

What does Staal really have to play for?

His team isn't a serious cup threat, he's already got his money, he's got his playing time, and hes got his family.

There is no reason to lay it on the line every game.

Captain Hook 03-22-2013 12:26 AM

I wasn't a fan of giving Staal 6 million. Mostly because I valued the 2 centers ahead of him more and wanted to use that money to surround them with better talent.

That said, it's still early. Remember when James Neal came here and had one goal in twenty games or so and two goals counting the playoffs that year? And all that while Goligoski lit it up in Dallas during that time. But once both guys settled in it went the complete opposite direction.

Sidney the Kidney 03-22-2013 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harv (Post 62157167)
What does Staal really have to play for?

His team isn't a serious cup threat, he's already got his money, he's got his playing time, and hes got his family.

There is no reason to lay it on the line every game.

I really hope he's got more character than that.

And I believe he does.

He's just incredibly streaky. We saw that here with the Pens. One 20-game stretch he'd look like an uncoordinated goofball who couldn't score into an empty net, then the next 20-game stretch he'd look like he could legitimately become a 30 goal, 70 point Selke winning center.

DoktorZaius 03-22-2013 12:45 AM

Shero played the Canes off against the Rags in a bidding war to determine who would control the hearts and minds of Staals everywhere and extracted max value.

If Staal turns out to have peaked I suppose that makes the trade look all the better, but I do wish him the best of luck.

turd 03-22-2013 01:02 AM

He has always been overrated by the media and most Pens fans. I would take Sutter every day and twice on Sundays compared to Staal.

OnMyOwn 03-22-2013 01:09 AM

Yea, no. Staal is better than Sutter...

turd 03-22-2013 01:26 AM

At being lazy maybe. I give skating and offensive instincts to Sutter. The defensive play is basically identical. And I definitely give Sutter the advantage in compete level. There's hardly anything about the way Sutter plays the game that makes me wish Staal was still around.

BrookswasHere44 03-22-2013 01:29 AM

Yeah Staal is MO BETTA than Sutter...with that said...i love Sutter...love that hes on this team...but lets not get carried away.

You did not specify but if you are meaning you'll take Sutters contract over Staal...then fine...ok

Not sure what else you would take so eagerly

turd 03-22-2013 01:33 AM

Nothing to specify. I would take Sutter the player over Staal the player. I know there's a ton of Staal fanboys around these parts for reasons I will never fully comprehend, but I stand by what I said.

bathroomSTAAL 03-22-2013 02:02 AM

<----bring back Staal

Jaded-Fan 03-22-2013 02:12 AM

Meh.

Staal is the better player.

That you watched him one game, and because of that one game viewing, can come to a conclusion otherwise is a bit astonishing to me.

I like that we 'win' a trade as much as anyone, but I always saw Staal as a player who you needed to look closer than at the scoresheet to truly appreciate. He would have looked great on this team for the rest of his career. That became impossible. We got as good as we could given we had no choice. But I am not going to slam him now to feel better about it all.

Pancakes 03-22-2013 02:33 AM

Staal is the better player but Sutter is the better fit. Sutter's affordable cap hit allows the Pens to improve in other areas. We obviously don't miss Staal's offense; we're still scoring boat loads of goals.

Pouliot and Dumoulin could just be the icing on the cake. If either develops into a top 4 defenseman, this trade is a huge win for the Pens. Even if they both bust, it's at worst an even trade because Sutter is not much of a downgrade at all from Staal.

Tender Rip 03-22-2013 02:52 AM

Staal is likely the better alround player now and in the future, but even if Sutter gets to 3.5-4 million on his next deal, that will be better value than Staal at 6, IMO.
For the moment at least we also have a player in Sutter who is not conflicted about what his role on the team is to be, nor harbors realistic 'Star' dreams about his game breaking offensive arsenal. He is constantly giving his best defensive effort, and that is key to his position on the Pens. Just like it was worthless when Staal broke out offensively last season, but suddenly couldn't be a defensive mastiff and ace penalty killer.

Sutter has some improvement he can do also, and scoring the way he is now with this seasons' installments of Kennedy and Cooke, that also suggests that there could be more coming if one or both his line mates had a fraction more to offer in the way of offensive ability.

Finally.... Staal is a very good player who we can all love. But that doesn't mean he wasn't frequently overrated here.

gordie 03-22-2013 03:35 AM

Jordan Staal is not a frontline center like he is now expected to be in Carolina but he's a great supporting cast player especially playing behind Crosby and Malkin. The fact is in the 2006 Entry Draft if the Pens pick Toews over Staal the Pens don't win the cup in 2009 because some of Jordan Staal's defensive work was the reason the Pens were able to shut Detroit down in the 3 Final games at home.

Big McLargehuge 03-22-2013 03:43 AM

Staal is a phenomenal player, I love him, he played a huge role in us winning the Cup (and as such I stick by my original hopes of drafting him), every team would be happy to have him, and we do way too much Sutter aggrandizing to try to make ourselves feel better about that deal...that said I'm glad we don't have $60 million tied up in him and that was a ridiculously good trade for this franchise.

Master Shake* 03-22-2013 05:05 AM

Staals natural spot should be playing shutdown 3rd line center for the Penguins. Up until a couple of years ago he was about the best at it that a player could be. His defensive game has lapsed however. I really do not understand it tbh.

I will say that I was openly calling for Sutter to be the main guy we got in return for a trade for Staal. That has worked out well at least.

I wish Staal the best though. Always thankful to him.

He is still young so Canes fans have no real reason to be upset yet. but someone needs to make him play up to his potential as a shutdown forward. For a couple of years there he looked like the best in the business at it.

DoktorZaius 03-22-2013 05:05 AM

I think Toews would have been a better pick, even considering the Cup. Guessing here, but I expect he would have shifted over to wing and become our coveted lifetime winger for Sid. They both play such a high skill 2 way game and can forecheck so well...they'd just be a nightmare for other teams. Throw Kunitz in there too, and it just wouldn't be fair.

wej20 03-22-2013 06:11 AM

haven't seen much him this year but he's scoring at 20 goal 61 point pace, what were people expecting him to do? He's definitely a better player than Sutter but like others have pointed out Sutter is a better fit for the team going forward.

ColePens 03-22-2013 06:24 AM

Watching one game should not be enough to make this type of call. He's better than Sutter right now. I'd take Staal at 4.5 over Sutter any day. However - next year it all changes. For cap purposes and how our team is constructed - i'll easily take Sutter.

But yeah... no more analyzing players based on 1 game.

turd 03-22-2013 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan (Post 62159677)
That you watched him one game, and because of that one game viewing, can come to a conclusion otherwise is a bit astonishing to me.

Who said anything about watching one game? I didn't watch that game, except for that clip of him scoring on his own net. I have watched probably 7-8 games of theirs this season, however. He's the same streaky, half-assed player he was here.

UnrealMachine 03-22-2013 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordie (Post 62160417)
Jordan Staal is not a frontline center like he is now expected to be in Carolina but he's a great supporting cast player especially playing behind Crosby and Malkin. The fact is in the 2006 Entry Draft if the Pens pick Toews over Staal the Pens don't win the cup in 2009 because some of Jordan Staal's defensive work was the reason the Pens were able to shut Detroit down in the 3 Final games at home.

How do you know for sure that we wouldn't have won more Cups with a Conn Smythe winner in Toews that led his team to a cup win without the luxuries of having Crosby/Malkin? You don't.

HandshakeLine 03-22-2013 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnrealMachine (Post 62162057)
How do you know for sure that we wouldn't have won more Cups with a Conn Smythe winner in Toews that led his team to a cup win without the luxuries of having Crosby/Malkin? You don't.

And, yet, of course, your opinion is perfectly provable.

Shady Machine 03-22-2013 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordie (Post 62160417)
Jordan Staal is not a frontline center like he is now expected to be in Carolina but he's a great supporting cast player especially playing behind Crosby and Malkin. The fact is in the 2006 Entry Draft if the Pens pick Toews over Staal the Pens don't win the cup in 2009 because some of Jordan Staal's defensive work was the reason the Pens were able to shut Detroit down in the 3 Final games at home.

And Toews is one of the better two way centers in the league. You can't make a statement like this and back it up. I'm not crying that we didn't take Toews because if we couldn't keep Sid, Geno, Staal we sure as hell couldn't keep Sid, Geno, Toews.

That said, there are some serious homer glasses going on here with Sutter. The dude is great, but Staal is definitely a better player.

Shady Machine 03-22-2013 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HandshakeLine (Post 62162195)
And, yet, of course, your opinion is perfectly provable.

He's not the one that said we wouldn't have won a cup with Toews. Which one is the more likely conclusion?


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