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-   -   Proposal: Phi- SJ (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1382375)

martin27 03-22-2013 08:25 AM

Phi- SJ
 
Talbot, Cobourn for Boyle, Murray, 2nd

Opens up avenues for the sharks to potentially upgrade further with now more caproom, I.e supposed interest in Campbell, along with acquiring needs. Get younger too.

Flyers gain a puck moving defence man in his prime, a future along with Murray who they are supposedly interested in (eklund). If they were to not resign Murray it opens up cap room for next year which is probably needed. Furthermore Fedentenko has now an opportunity to provide what Talbot was providing and add something to the team now hopefully.

JDinkalage Morgoone 03-22-2013 08:27 AM

Provides good defensive help for us but we get significantly older. I don't think we'd do it. Boyle is still a great defenseman but I wouldn't say he's in his prime. He's pretty old.

Pinkfloyd 03-22-2013 08:30 AM

The Sharks don't need Coburn and they need someone more in the mold of a 2nd and 3rd line tweener player, if not a top six winger, with speed. This doesn't address their needs.

Jack de la Hoya 03-22-2013 08:33 AM

The Flyers pass, though the value is good for them.

The age gap between Coburn and Boyle is just too much, and while Murray is good, he's somewhat similar to what the team already has in Schenn and Grossmann.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd (Post 62163999)
The Sharks don't need Coburn and they need someone more in the mold of a 2nd and 3rd line tweener player, if not a top six winger, with speed. This doesn't address their needs.

Sounds like Matt Read.

Juxtaposer 03-22-2013 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd (Post 62163999)
The Sharks don't need Coburn and they need someone more in the mold of a 2nd and 3rd line tweener player, if not a top six winger, with speed. This doesn't address their needs.

Speak for yourself, I'd love Coburn.

Obviously you try to trade for needs, but even with the Sharks, there are some defensemen that you are okay with getting. I know Coburn hasn't been great this season, but I still believe in him.

JDinkalage Morgoone 03-22-2013 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya (Post 62164093)
The Flyers pass, though the value is good for them.

The age gap between Coburn and Boyle is just too much, and while Murray is good, he's somewhat similar to what the team already has in Schenn and Grossmann.


Sounds like Matt Read.

I was thinking this too. I personally would like some more speed on the back end. Really no one besides Coburn is fast back there.

chromemaro 03-22-2013 08:59 AM

Boyle Schenn
Timo Grossman
Murray Mez

Looks a lot better. But you have to take into consideration that Murray is UFA and Boyle has a large cap hit that they flyers may not be able to swallow.

That being said...I'd make the trade simply because our D would improve short term and we would rid of ourselves of a few more years of 4.5 million dollar coburn.

Jack de la Hoya 03-22-2013 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chromemaro (Post 62164977)
That being said...I'd make the trade simply because our D would improve short term and we would rid of ourselves of a few more years of 4.5 million dollar coburn.

Even if he's only a 3/4 defenseman (instead of a #2), Coburn is a perfectly reasonable deal at $4.5. Trading him to get rid of his contract, while picking up Boyle and Murray, doesn't really make sense to me.

BrindamoursNose 03-22-2013 09:05 AM

I'd rather keep Coburn's 4.5 cap hit than trade for old Boyle and redundant Murray

StoneHands 03-22-2013 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin27 (Post 62163801)
Talbot, Cobourn for Boyle, Murray, 2nd

Opens up avenues for the sharks to potentially upgrade further with now more caproom, I.e supposed interest in Campbell, along with acquiring needs. Get younger too.

Flyers gain a puck moving defence man in his prime, a future along with Murray who they are supposedly interested in (eklund). If they were to not resign Murray it opens up cap room for next year which is probably needed. Furthermore Fedentenko has now an opportunity to provide what Talbot was providing and add something to the team now hopefully.

At this point the Flyers need to get better for next season. Boyle will be 37 next year which isnt exactly "in his prime" as you suggest. I like what Murray brings but he's redundant on the Flyers. Coburn is 28 and while he's sucked this season, I think he can fetch a better return. If we could package Coburn and Talbot for a younger puck moving defenseman I think that would be more of what the Flyers would be looking for.

If we were in a spot where we could make a playoff run and needed some scoring from the back end this might be something to seriously consider. It's not often that a team starts selling at the deadline to get older players.

chromemaro 03-22-2013 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya (Post 62165037)
Even if he's only a 3/4 defenseman (instead of a #2), Coburn is a perfectly reasonable deal at $4.5. Trading him to get rid of his contract, while picking up Boyle and Murray, doesn't really make sense to me.

You are probably right, its such a frustrating year.

achdumeingute 03-22-2013 10:59 AM

No. This doesn't remotely do anything for the Flyers. Boyle in his prime, lol is this 2006?

We are not buyers of veterans. (at least we shouldnt be buyers <fingers crossed>)

Trade Boyle and Murray to someone else who is a buyer. I'll trade you Talbot and Coburn for Demers and a 1st, and I don't like Demers, but he's the best you have in that category.

CS 03-22-2013 11:05 AM

Lots of stuff Philadelphia can't use for Coburn. Makes no sense.

Pretty awful proposal.

Philly gets bent over and nothing good comes out of it.

WTFetus 03-22-2013 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer (Post 62164517)
Speak for yourself, I'd love Coburn.

Obviously you try to trade for needs, but even with the Sharks, there are some defensemen that you are okay with getting. I know Coburn hasn't been great this season, but I still believe in him.

I agree. This looks like a trade that benefits the Sharks moreso than the Flyers. Mainly because I love Coburn and I hate Murray.

thrillermiller89 03-22-2013 11:49 AM

The value is right, but I'm sure most Sharks fans would rather see Boyle dealt separately to maximize the overall return.

I like this deal though, mostly because I'm high on Talbot.

Curufinwe 03-22-2013 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFetus (Post 62171337)
I agree. This looks like a trade that benefits the Sharks moreso than the Flyers. Mainly because I love Coburn and I hate Murray.

Coburn may well bounce back, but he's been woeful this season.

Stizzle 03-22-2013 12:52 PM

This is an easy no from the Flyers. We need a Dan Boyle type of player, but his age is a deal breaker.

Juxtaposer 03-22-2013 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by achdumeingute (Post 62169789)
No. This doesn't remotely do anything for the Flyers. Boyle in his prime, lol is this 2006?

We are not buyers of veterans. (at least we shouldnt be buyers <fingers crossed>)

Trade Boyle and Murray to someone else who is a buyer. I'll trade you Talbot and Coburn for Demers and a 1st, and I don't like Demers, but he's the best you have in that category.

You don't like Demers because you don't watch him play. It's not a criticism of you, but rather the coaches who rarely let Sharks fans see him play. However, most of the games he's played this season he's been one of our top-2 defensemen performance-wise. I'm not trading him and a first for Coburn and a 4th liner. I like Coburn, but that's not worth it for the Sharks. Demers has tons of upside.

JayB 03-22-2013 04:51 PM

Talbot+Fedotenko+Meszaros for Clowe+Murray+2nd.

We get nice bottom lines next year:
Clowe-Couturier-McGin/Read
Murray-Grossman
Zolnierchyk-Laughton-Rinaldo

Jack de la Hoya 03-22-2013 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayB (Post 62188509)
Talbot+Fedotenko+Meszaros for Clowe+Murray+2nd.

We get nice bottom lines next year:
Clowe-Couturier-McGin/Read
Murray-Grossman
Zolnierchyk-Laughton-Rinaldo

Posted this in the other thread, but that doesn't look like great value for the Sharks, and it makes no sense for the Flyers.

Why would we trade two players under contract for next season for UFAs-to-be?

JayB 03-22-2013 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya (Post 62188781)
Posted this in the other thread, but that doesn't look like great value for the Sharks, and it makes no sense for the Flyers.

Why would we trade two players under contract for next season for UFAs-to-be?

I had an idea that we could land with Talbot something like 2nd+, Fedotenko is probably gone after this year and he is something you need in playoffs->Philly isnt going there, Meszaros is good but he have 4milj caphit and he is always broken here, cap is going down next year and this year wasnt so good to Murray&Clowe put they have some vets potenttial to be role players, maybe resign those like Murray 1.5milj and Clowe 2-2.5milj, if not we still have that second rounder from Talbot what we would have with out this deal anyway... San Jose gets some bottom six role guys to playoffs and off from Murray+Clowe. And they can keep if needed Talbot ja Mezz after this season.

CanadianSharks 03-22-2013 05:20 PM

I'd do it, they wouldn't because of age.

DuckEatinShark 03-22-2013 05:31 PM

I'd probably do it if you downgraded the pick to a 3rd. Talbot is what we need and I don't mind having Coburn on this team.

Any Flyers fans know why Coburn has been so bad this season? Nagging injury, personal reasons or just doesn't fit the system or something? He's too young to be regressing.

Jack de la Hoya 03-22-2013 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckEatinShark (Post 62190335)
I'd probably do it if you downgraded the pick to a 3rd. Talbot is what we need and I don't mind having Coburn on this team.

Any Flyers fans know why Coburn has been so bad this season? Nagging injury, personal reasons or just doesn't fit the system or something? He's too young to be regressing.

Well, first, everyone is awful, so any particular player's failure to live up to reasonable expectations must be understood in the context of a lost season.

But, essentially, the core of the team's problem is its inability to start a transition from its own zone, leading to high-qualify scoring chances against and prolonged defensive-zone shifts. Coburn has never been a strong puck-mover, but he seems to be having particular difficulty with this aspect of the game at the moment.

That said, I'm not as ready to dump him as others. He's been a steady player for years, and I'm willing to give him a partial pass, since everyone else (with a few exceptions) has also been disappointing.

DuckEatinShark 03-22-2013 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya (Post 62190667)
Well, first, everyone is awful, so any particular player's failure to live up to reasonable expectations must be understood in the context of a lost season.

But, essentially, the core of the team's problem is its inability to start a transition from its own zone, leading to high-qualify scoring chances against and prolonged defensive-zone shifts. Coburn has never been a strong puck-mover, but he seems to be having particular difficulty with this aspect of the game at the moment.

That said, I'm not as ready to dump him as others. He's been a steady player for years, and I'm willing to give him a partial pass, since everyone else (with a few exceptions) has also been disappointing.

If that's the case then I doubt he'd succeed on the Sharks. That's also our biggest problem right now. Our structure/breakout plays suck. That's why we rank near the bottom of the league in goals scored despite our talented top 6.


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