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Canadiens1958 03-25-2013 03:00 PM

Guyle Fielder WHL Legend
 
In the 1950s and 1960s Guyle Fielder was a WHL and minor league legend:

http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com...e-fielder.html

9 WHL scoring titles plus 14 assist titles. Yet for a variety of reasons, with a variety of NHL teams he was scoreless in 15 games. Each NHL team except Montreal was willing to give him a chance.

Killion 03-25-2013 03:18 PM

Ya thats an interesting one alright. On the smallish size at 5'9" & 160lbs but still, well within range of that era. Absolutely the WHL's greatest star, he ranks 3rd All Time only behind Gretzky & Howe for most points professionally. Fielder a playmaker collecting most of them on Assists. No-look passes etc.... his last real shot at the NHL was in like 57 with Detroit, Adams not playing him so he requested he be returned to the WHL.... As we know, whomever held his rights if not having room for him on the NHL roster would keep talented guys down asking much if another club came calling looking to make a trade. So likely a combination of that, not to mention salaries for stars in the WHL were in many cases on par with & actually better then what you'd make in the NHL. Probably a combination of all 3 factors saw him playing out his career in the minors. He was drafted by the WHA Houston Aero's where I suppose he mightve been able to cash-in before cashing out & retiring but instead played out a final year in Portland I believe before hanging them up for good.

Canadiens1958 03-25-2013 03:46 PM

Size
 
Guyle Fielder - size was comparable to Max Bentley, Henri Richard, Dave Keon, Stan Mikita. WHL featured a similar player in the 1960s - Art Jones:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Jones_%28ice_hockey%29

Speed and skating are always factors as well as linemates. Not being able to play with Gordie Howe was a bit of a red flag.

Killion 03-25-2013 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 (Post 62378287)
Speed and skating are always factors as well as linemates. Not being able to play with Gordie Howe was a bit of a red flag.

Ya, 5'9" & 160 wasnt "small" by the standards of the era by any means. Wasnt "big" but there were plenty in that range. I havent seen any contemporaneous newspaper articles, quotes from Adams or whomever as to the guys game at the NHL level, just that he "sat" more than he "played" so just what was going on, no idea. As a playmaker though, you'd think playing with Howe would be quite the blessing, and a Right Winger at that.... which upon further reflection.... wasnt that the season, 57/58 that Ted Lindsay was sent to Chicago by Adams as punishment for trying to start up the players association? Thomson from Toronto and a few others as well. You'd think on depth charts playing Fiedler would've been an improvement over lets say Dutch Riebel, however, maybe Adams liked a more defensive Centre on line 3 or whatever. Hard to say with Jolly Jack. And you also had a Coaching change 57/58, Jimmy Skinner out, Sid Abel in. And here, depth chart they had at Centre;

Delvecchio
Ullman
Prystai
Kilrea
Dea
Kennedy
Lalande
McNeil
Oliver
Olson
Poile

aforementioned Reibel & of course Fiedler...

Bear of Bad News 03-25-2013 04:20 PM

One of my favorite all-time historical players (doesn't hurt that I am a Seattle homer).

Killion 03-25-2013 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur (Post 62380329)
One of my favorite all-time historical players (doesn't hurt that I am a Seattle homer).

for sure, venerated in Seattle, 14 or 15yrs playing there...

* Prince Albert & Lethbridge NSJHL & WCHL 48-51
* Signs as Free-Agent Chicago March 51
* Loaned to New Westminister PCHL August 51
* Traded to Detroit by Chicago Sept 52
* Loaned back to Chicago (WHL Edmonton) 52/53
* Claimed on Waivers by the NYR's Sept 53
* Traded to Seattle of the WHL by the NYR Oct 53
* Claimed by Boston Inter-League Draft June 57
* Traded by Boston back to Detroit also June 57
* Claimed by Toronto from Seattle Inter League Draft June 58

* Refuses to report... :baghead:

* Carrys on in Seattle through the 60's,
* runs formula hydro's every year in Seafair
* Traded to Salt Lake for Bobby Schmautz 69

* Theres more, but honestly.... :phew:

mbhhofr 03-25-2013 06:23 PM

I had the pleasure of being on the ice with him. He was without a doubt, in my opinion, the best hockey player not in the NHL. One of the things that I heard about him preferring to go back to Seattle, after being with Detroit, was that he was making more money in Seattle.

jumptheshark 03-25-2013 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhhofr (Post 62389073)
I had the pleasure of being on the ice with him. He was without a doubt, in my opinion, the best hockey player not in the NHL. One of the things that I heard about him preferring to go back to Seattle, after being with Detroit, was that he was making more money in Seattle.

during that era that was quite possible

Canadiens1958 03-25-2013 06:48 PM

Common
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhhofr (Post 62389073)
I had the pleasure of being on the ice with him. He was without a doubt, in my opinion, the best hockey player not in the NHL. One of the things that I heard about him preferring to go back to Seattle, after being with Detroit, was that he was making more money in Seattle.

Common in the 1950s until the 1967 expansion. Some preferred the QSHL/QHL/EPHL to the USA - Herb Carnegie, Ken Mosdell, Gerry McNeil.

How common was this in the WHL? Was there a difference in this regard between the American and Canadian teams?

Bear of Bad News 03-25-2013 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhhofr (Post 62389073)
I had the pleasure of being on the ice with him. He was without a doubt, in my opinion, the best hockey player not in the NHL. One of the things that I heard about him preferring to go back to Seattle, after being with Detroit, was that he was making more money in Seattle.

Also a much nicer town. ;)

(Fugu sighting in three, two, one...)

Killion 03-25-2013 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 (Post 62391455)
Common in the 1950s until the 1967 expansion. Some preferred the QSHL/QHL/EPHL to the USA - Herb Carnegie... How common was this in the WHL? Was there a difference in this regard between the American and Canadian teams?

Dont know for sure, but anecdotally I've heard that some of the talent in the old WHL were in fact making more or as much as Jean Beliveau when he was with the Quebec City Aces (close to $20,000 a year including perks, car, gifts, endorsements). The standard NHL Rookie Salary in the 50's/early60's being $7000 per annum, you might top out at $10,000 or thereabouts in the NHL if a 2nd or 3rd liner, few grand more, maybe $16K or so if a star in the NHL. Selke offered Beliveau the standard but of course he refused, and why not? Thats a $13,000 plus paycut. As we know, the Habs bought the entire QSHL in order to force him to sign & play for Montreal, Beliveaus 'B' (could play "amateur" for whoever he wanted) rather than 'C' form signature negated in the process so if he wanted to get paid at all, Montreal, where he did sign for $100,000 over 5yrs, more than Richard & Howe were making by quite a bit.

Herb Carnegie on the other hand who also played with Beliveau in Quebec was another story. He grew up worshipping the Leafs and wanted to sign however Conn Smythe, recognizing his talent was told he was making $10,000 playing in the minors. Too much & more than what Smythe was paying even his top players in most cases in the NHL. When asked why he hadnt signed Carnegie, infamous, disgusting comment that absolutely cut Carnegie to the core, that he'd only pay $10,000 for Carnegie "if someone could turn him white" or words to that affect. Pulls the race card in explaining away Herb, who Beliveau claimed was one of the best players he'd ever seen play, a multitude of Scouts, Players, observers & fans having little doubt about that as well. The past's a different country, they do things differently back there, that comment by Smythe all too common the sort of attitude towards the "livestock" most of these guys had, and pretty much since 1917. So ya, a lot of talent in the WHL & elsewhere making as much or more than they'd have ever made in the NHL, free from the shackles of indentured servitude & the kind of penury so many of the greats from the 06 era were forced to endure.

Hardyvan123 03-25-2013 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhhofr (Post 62389073)
I had the pleasure of being on the ice with him. He was without a doubt, in my opinion, the best hockey player not in the NHL. One of the things that I heard about him preferring to go back to Seattle, after being with Detroit, was that he was making more money in Seattle.

Wwere his skating and defensive skills like, never saw him play or heard that he was "kept down".

Always had him as one of those guys who could be a big fish in a smaller pond, tons of players like that in the history of hockey.

Not everyone is a star in the NHL.


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