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-   -   Valtteri Filppula going forward from here (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1386017)

FormerRedwingFan 03-26-2013 04:34 PM

Valtteri Filppula going forward from here
 
Valtteri Filppula's last few seasons have been confusing. He finally had his breakout although a lot latter than most expected. Now he seems to have regressed to the .5 PPG player he has been making last season's 66 points an anommoly.

Just curious what happens from here. Are the injuries hampreing his scoring this season, was last season a fluke, do the wings resign him, do they overpay, if he ditches the injury bug and resigns does he top 66 points next season?

Interested to hear thoughts

SoupNazi 03-26-2013 04:39 PM

I'm convinced we're not keeping him. I don't think Wings are willing to give what he wants.

I also am not convinced last season wasn't a fluke.

Henkka 03-26-2013 04:41 PM

This is really tough question. But few days ago I got an idea. I would try to sign him to a 1-year contract to solve this case Datsyuk better at 2014 summer and give better chance for Valtteri to prove himself. Injuries have hampered him at this season, definitely. Two different injuries, the first one (knee) that happened in Finland, then his shoulder went in NHL.

CloneHakanPlease* 03-26-2013 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henkka (Post 62458771)
This is really tough question. But few days ago I got an idea. I would try to sign him to a 1-year contract to solve this case Datsyuk better at 2014 summer and give better chance for Valtteri to prove himself. Injuries have hampered him at this season, definitely. Two different injuries, the first one (knee) that happened in Finland, then his shoulder went in NHL.

I'd be down. 1 year 5.25 million. Yes an overpayment, but I don't see him taking a one year deal without it being one and there aren't enough good UFAs this offseason to put us near the cap anyways. If you play good, we'll reward you with an extension for that type of money.

The Zetterberg Era 03-26-2013 04:47 PM

I think in a top 6 winger role he can hit that 66 point mark again. Injuries have certainly been a factor this season, and his puck luck hasn't been quite as good. I think we have seen four or five posts and a couple chances just like last night, where saves just hits the goalie. I think we do wind up paying him a little over 5 million and for most that will be overpayment.

Filppula has a lot of talent and isn't easily replaced on this team as some like to indicate around here. Really not trying to invite Eva to derail another thread but Zetterberg and Filppula have struggled to find the third wheel this year also. I am curious what Sammy would do on that line as a bigger guy and willing shooter.

My problem with Filppula making big money is I don't think he is a center. He can play the position and pretty well, but he is better out on the wing. He needs to get a little more aggressive, I am sure his knee and shoulder are hampering that a little. He might be a guy that lost a little money by playing during the lockout because if he was on a 70 point pace this season I don't think people would be hoping up and down mad at a 5.5 or 6 million range. He also was given a chance to earn the Grabo and Zajac deals but we were so woeful with Z and Datsyuk on the same line and him attempting to anchor the second line that I think he shouldn't paid like one of those centers, he hasn't earned that in that position. Loui Eriksson makes 5.25, Kessel makes 5.4, know that those weren't UFA deals. But hard to argue Filppula the winger getting more than say Lupul who just extended, so anything above 5.25 is paying him out of his true position slot.

Bench 03-26-2013 05:19 PM

Filppula is the type of depth player most championship teams have that straddle the line between 2nd/3rd line player. He's a good 2nd line winger and a tremendous 3rd line center.

What I'm trying to say is he's the type of guy you keep, with excellent versatility, if the cost doesn't prohibit you from making other moves.

With the free agent market what it is, and with trades being difficult to accomplish, I think you have to keep a guy like him.

BSHH 03-26-2013 05:49 PM

Like The Zetterberg Era and Bench, I also think Filppula is a decent top 6 wing, but not a top 6 center. Since he has become 29 years old, I do not expect a lot of development from him anymore.

After Andersson and Emmerton have improved their play this season, Helm being a good 3rd line center when healthy and other stopgap center options like Abdelkader or Sheahan available, I seem to rate Filppula's ability to play center somehow lower than others. Therefore, I consider Filppula's overall contributions easier to replace and signing other free agents like Howard, Smith, Kindl, Brunner and hopefully Dekeyser as a priority for the Red Wings.

Since the cap goes down significantly next season, I think an extension for Filppula with a cap hit of $ 5m or more will be too expensive. Decent top 6 wingers should be available for less; I also wager that both Samuelsson and Bertuzzi might be able to become valuable contributors again, Tatar and Nyquist even more so.

If I were Holland, I would offer Filppula an annual salary of $ 4.5m and let the player choose, for how many years he wants to sign (with 5 years being the maximum). Should Filppula demand a contract with more than $ 5m AAV, I would let him walk and explore free agency options.

Gruß,
BSHH

ProPAIN 03-26-2013 06:00 PM

I'll wait until the end of the season (hopefully playoffs) to judge if we should keep Flip or not. I don't think last year was a fluke and this season has been messed up with the lockout and all. He's not a star by any stretch of the imagination, but if they can't find anyone better, I'd re-sign him. It's all about options and having a substitute. We can only see that at the end of the season with the guys leaving, the prospects ready to make the jump and what this team needs.

Frk It 03-26-2013 06:00 PM

Unfair to say he has regressed when he started the season rushing back from an MCL injury.

I don't understand how his last few seasons have been confusing. His point totals corresponded with the role he has played. His jump in points came when he moved from 3rd line center to a top 6 winger.

35-40 points is good production for a 3rd line center.
66 points is good production for a top 6 winger

That being said I think he will price himself out of Detroit, and I'm OK with that.

Henkka 03-26-2013 06:14 PM

What is this 3rd line center talk? We won a Cup at 2008 as Valtteri our 2nd line center.

InjuredChoker 03-26-2013 06:53 PM

I think he said in one Finnish mag like weeks ago along the lines of ''Ofc I'd like to re-sign but I try not to think about it too much during the season (contract talks). I like it here but there are other good teams, too.''

The Zetterberg Era 03-26-2013 07:06 PM

I was surprised when they didn't put him in the A rotation to start the year. Lidstrom kind of hinted at that in his retirement press conference. The comments above might point to why. Filppula is clearly not taking a large discount if any to stick around or the papers would already be filed.

Number1RedWingsFan52 03-26-2013 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henkka (Post 62463355)
What is this 3rd line center talk? We won a Cup at 2008 as Valtteri our 2nd line center.

I think what he meant Is that Filppula over his career is only averaging 39 points a year and that's a 3rd line center numbers.

InjuredChoker 03-26-2013 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 62465985)
I was surprised when they didn't put him in the A rotation to start the year. Lidstrom kind of hinted at that in his retirement press conference. The comments above might point to why. Filppula is clearly not taking a large discount if any to stick around or the papers would already be filed.

Or they are shipping him out.

If I repeat that lie often enough, it will be true. A' la Lance Armstrong logic.

yave1964 03-26-2013 07:18 PM

As one by one the potential free agents sign with their current teams it gives Filpulla leverage in future negotiations.
If their is any truth in the rumor that Pavel is going back to Russia after next season we have to resign Filpulla. Not that Val is Datsyuk, but replacing both of them makes us a lottery team. I think whoever signs Filpulla will have to overpay, it is going to be a sellers market with limited forwards available. Holland should have never allowed this or the Howard scenario go this long.

RedWingsNow* 03-26-2013 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bench (Post 62460801)
Filppula is the type of depth player most championship teams have that straddle the line between 2nd/3rd line player. He's a good 2nd line winger and a tremendous 3rd line center.

What I'm trying to say is he's the type of guy you keep, with excellent versatility, if the cost doesn't prohibit you from making other moves.

With the free agent market what it is, and with trades being difficult to accomplish, I think you have to keep a guy like him.


Like the always astute Benchy says, he's the versatile depth player you can with.

We saw this when we won the cup and he was our second line center for much of the playoffs, contributing huge goals and solid defensive play.

I'm not for paying Flip $5M a year. But I'm not for paying $3.75 a gallon for gas either.

You gotta pay to play.

Frk It 03-26-2013 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henkka (Post 62463355)
What is this 3rd line center talk? We won a Cup at 2008 as Valtteri our 2nd line center.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 (Post 62466173)
I think what he meant Is that Filppula over his career is only averaging 39 points a year and that's a 3rd line center numbers.

This is more of what I was trying to say, but you are right Henkka. And I actually went back and looked at Fil's toi/g since the 08 season and it was higher than I thought it would be.

I'll give some credit to Hudler for contributing to the success of that line last year.

Frk It 03-26-2013 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWingsNow (Post 62489435)
Like the always astute Benchy says, he's the versatile depth player you can with.

We saw this when we won the cup and he was our second line center for much of the playoffs, contributing huge goals and solid defensive play.

I'm not for paying Flip $5M a year. But I'm not for paying $3.75 a gallon for gas either.

You gotta pay to play.

Haha I like the way you put that.

RedWinger10 03-26-2013 10:04 PM

I hope and prey we make a deadline deal with him in the mix. I think he's just not fitting in here. If not I hope we don't re-sign him, and if we do I hope it is for the same or less than his contract now.:facepalm:

ricky0034 03-26-2013 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWinger10 (Post 62490255)
I hope and prey we make a deadline deal with him in the mix. I think he's just not fitting in here. If not I hope we don't re-sign him, and if we do I hope it is for the same or less than his contract now.:facepalm:

if we re-sign him you hope it's for the same or less than $3 million? :laugh:

sounds good to me

maybe next offseason we can go get Malkin for $5 million

Syckle78 03-26-2013 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWinger10 (Post 62490255)
I hope and prey we make a deadline deal with him in the mix. I think he's just not fitting in here. If not I hope we don't re-sign him, and if we do I hope it is for the same or less than his contract now.:facepalm:

Dudes getting paid. Going to be making five million that's a foregone conclusion. Only question is if just Kenny hands him the contract or someone else.

Flowah 03-26-2013 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricky0034 (Post 62491699)
if we re-sign him you hope it's for the same or less than $3 million? :laugh:

sounds good to me

maybe next offseason we can go get Malkin for $5 million

Dude that's ridiculous. Who does he think he is? Crosby? $3M or go somewhere else.

pdd 03-26-2013 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 62459099)
Really not trying to invite Eva to derail another thread but Zetterberg and Filppula have struggled to find the third wheel this year also.

Do I get to say it yet? :naughty:

6-7-13 in 26 vs. 6-14-20 in 27...

detredWINgs 03-26-2013 11:07 PM

It seems as though, in the past 2-3 years, every time I've said a player wasn't worth X, but that Holland would sign him for X+1, Holland ends up signing him for X+2.

Therefore:

1. I don't think Filppula is worth more than $4.5M over 5+ years.
2. I think Holland will sign him for $5M.
3. And in reality, Holland will end up giving him $5.5M.

detredWINgs 03-26-2013 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frk It (Post 62462783)
Unfair to say he has regressed when he started the season rushing back from an MCL injury.

I don't understand how his last few seasons have been confusing. His point totals corresponded with the role he has played. His jump in points came when he moved from 3rd line center to a top 6 winger.

35-40 points is good production for a 3rd line center.
66 points is good production for a top 6 winger

That being said I think he will price himself out of Detroit, and I'm OK with that.

This is a bogus argument:

- In 2009-2010, Filppula played 18:14 a night (4th in TOI for forwards) and played regularly on the 2nd unit of the PP. He played just 1:07 on the PK.
- In 2010-2011, Filppula played 16:43 a night (4th in TOI for forwards) and played regularly on the 2nd unit of the PP. He played just 39 seconds on the PK.
- In 2011-2012, Filppula played 18:15 a night (3rd in TOI for forwards) and played regularly on the 2nd unit of the PP. He played just 54 seconds on the PK.


In reality, Filppula has been playing 2nd line minutes for the past 4 years.


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