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-   -   "Who" is not buying into "what"? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1386497)

superblues 03-27-2013 08:07 AM

"Who" is not buying into "what"?
 
Quote:

Jeremy Rutherford ‏@jprutherford
Hitch addressed the media 1 hr 17 minutes after the game ended. He met with team leaders. Repeated that buy-in is not there.
We've been hearing and reading about player "buy in," or lack thereof, all season.

So who on this team isn't buying into what exactly?

Dolph Ziggler 03-27-2013 08:23 AM

"What" is the defensive system of hockey that Hitch plays where you don't see an insanely high amount of odd man rushes against.

As to "who", it's not just one player.

Maya Blue 03-27-2013 09:30 AM

Their immaturity is showing. They got cocky after last season and their fast start this year. They think their personal skill is what got them there.

They are soft and have a hard time dealing with adversity.

There needs to be a shakeup to wake these guys up. Trade a Perron, Oshie or Backes. A message needs to be sent.

Alklha 03-27-2013 09:38 AM

It is basically the whole team that isn't buying into the style of game that we need to play to be successful. We aren't doing the right things in the offensive zone and when we give up chances, they are premium chances.

It is the little things that are going to be the factor here. Look at the first goal last night, Pietrangelo made a bad read and was ultimately out of position and we lost a goal. The thing that highlights our problems this season is as much the play of Perron as that of Pietrangelo there. Perron stops and looks back and only starts moving his feet a couple of seconds after the breakaway has started. It wouldn't have made a difference to the goal in this situation, but that won't make it any more acceptable to Hitchcock. You have to be aware of what is going on on the ice and it is team defense. Perron is far from the only one guilty of stupid little incidents like that, it was just an obvious one to highlight.

Mike Liut 03-27-2013 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maya Blue (Post 62513649)
Their immaturity is showing. They got cocky after last season and their fast start this year. They think their personal skill is what got them there.

They are soft and have a hard time dealing with adversity.

There needs to be a shakeup to wake these guys up. Trade a Perron, Oshie or Backes. A message needs to be sent.

Maybe, depending on the return
Zero chance
Doubtful, unless for a huge overpayment

Maya Blue 03-27-2013 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Liut (Post 62514151)
Maybe, depending on the return
Zero chance
Doubtful, unless for a huge overpayment

But who isn't buying into it? The 4th line guys? Doubt it, they play their hearts out every shift.

Sobotka, Tarasenko, McDonald, Steen? They're good.

Stewie, Berglund? Possibly.

Backes? He's the captain and should be fully behind it.

That leaves Oshie and Perron...

As for the Defensemen? Petro is having a tough year, but the rest are dealing more with being in the right position or losing their man down low behind the play. But that might be more about what the forwards are not doing their job.

As for the return, while I've always been a big fan of Oshie and Perron and Backes, I think we Blues fans have a tendency to always overvalue our own. Oshie is probably the most valuable of the three. Just because he has better offensive skills thans Backes, but can play the defensive game just as good.

Perron is a one-trick pony at this point. He doesn't pass well enough, and hot dogs it too much with the puck.

Backes is one of those guys that will be around for years in the league. But never be more than a 50 forward.

shifting 03-27-2013 10:18 AM

Every game Perron is closer and closer to be traded, just a gut feel.

I like Perron, but he is trying to do too much, and ends up trying to do it alone.

shifting 03-27-2013 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maya Blue (Post 62515491)
Backes is one of those guys that will be around for years in the league. But never be more than a 50 forward.

I disagree, before this anomaly of a season, he was trending towards a 60 point per season Center, with the ability to hit people. He still has 3-4 years before he is in his prime. He will get there.

Maya Blue 03-27-2013 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifting (Post 62515979)
I disagree, before this anomaly of a season, he was trending towards a 60 point per season Center, with the ability to hit people. He still has 3-4 years before he is in his prime. He will get there.

I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

tfriede2 03-27-2013 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifting (Post 62515979)
I disagree, before this anomaly of a season, he was trending towards a 60 point per season Center, with the ability to hit people. He still has 3-4 years before he is in his prime. He will get there.

You mean "out" of his prime, right? He's in his prime now, and in 3-4 years, he'll be beginning the downside of his career.

Dolph Ziggler 03-27-2013 10:45 AM

I didn't want to be the first to bring him up because it can't just be one guy and I've been accused of being a "hater" before, but Perron stands out to me that doesn't seem to buy in.

Yeah he can make things happen offensively that nobody else (besides maybe Tarasenko) can, but he's on pace for 53 points this season. That isn't an elite level player that would make you say "ok I can deal with some flaws defensively).

If a "shake-up" trade is what needs to happen (and I'm not a big advocate of trading for the purpose of shaking things up) then he's the guy I would look at.

Blue Note 03-27-2013 10:55 AM

Perron is hands down one of my favorite players of all time but I do think he is stubborn with the puck and waits until his passing lanes close sohe can take a shot, share the wealth bro. Lets pass a bit more and let the points pile up. The last thing i want to do is trade him but gotta start somewhere .

shifting 03-27-2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfriede2 (Post 62516863)
You mean "out" of his prime, right? He's in his prime now, and in 3-4 years, he'll be beginning the downside of his career.

I stand corrected, I had thought he was 26 for some reason.

CarvinSigX 03-27-2013 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falco Lombardi (Post 62516917)
I didn't want to be the first to bring him up because it can't just be one guy and I've been accused of being a "hater" before, but Perron stands out to me that doesn't seem to buy in.

Yeah he can make things happen offensively that nobody else (besides maybe Tarasenko) can, but he's on pace for 53 points this season. That isn't an elite level player that would make you say "ok I can deal with some flaws defensively).

If a "shake-up" trade is what needs to happen (and I'm not a big advocate of trading for the purpose of shaking things up) then he's the guy I would look at.

Who creates more, Perron or Frank? Who costs more? Who's taking penalties left and right?

I called for a breakout year from Perron...Not the case. The guy (among others) has been flat out detrimental to the team at times.

HockeyGuy73 03-27-2013 11:37 AM

Perron seems to have never grown up yet, he is playing like the kid Andy Murray had to bench often, and called it a growing process. Way too many offensive zone penalties. I agree, he may be the one to go, but I hope its not a trade for the sake of a shake up trade. Wonder what kind of package it would take to pry Wayne Simmonds out of Philly.

Alklha 03-27-2013 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HockeyGuy73 (Post 62519949)
Perron seems to have never grown up yet, he is playing like the kid Andy Murray had to bench often, and called it a growing process. Way too many offensive zone penalties. I agree, he may be the one to go, but I hope its not a trade for the sake of a shake up trade. Wonder what kind of package it would take to pry Wayne Simmonds out of Philly.

I expect we would need to involve Shattenkirk. So not worth it.

Linus 03-27-2013 12:02 PM

Perron is one of my favorite players. He's having a rough season defensively and with the constant & unnecessary minor penalties. If a substantial player is traded in the next week, I think the chances are very good that it will be Perron. However, his offense and puck handling is something that I think is very valuable to the Blues. There is no one else on the team that has the puck handling ability that he does (I have no problem acknowledging that he can get too cute and hold onto the puck for way too long at times). If the Blues can get a piece that will improve the team for Perron, I'm all for it, but personally I hope he's still on the team post trade deadline.

I think/hope Hitchcock knows it's more than just a couple of players. There have been defensive breakdowns and bad plays from probably every player this season. I know that Perron is a popular player to call out, but he doesn't lose games by himself. To me, it seems like a team wide thing- maybe there are a few players who it doesn't apply to. Do the Blues have a winning culture within the lockerroom? It seems like last year they did, but they've been so up and down this season. It's true what Strickland said about the Blues' identity: they don't have one. Last year, they were a solid defensive team who could still score 3 goals a game- and when they did, you felt confident that they'd win. I have no idea what their identity is right now.

BadgersandBlues 03-27-2013 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linus (Post 62521441)
Perron is one of my favorite players. He's having a rough season defensively and with the constant & unnecessary minor penalties. If a substantial player is traded in the next week, I think the chances are very good that it will be Perron. However, his offense and puck handling is something that I think is very valuable to the Blues. There is no one else on the team that has the puck handling ability that he does (I have no problem acknowledging that he can get too cute and hold onto the puck for way too long at times). If the Blues can get a piece that will improve the team for Perron, I'm all for it, but personally I hope he's still on the team post trade deadline.

I think/hope Hitchcock knows it's more than just a couple of players. There have been defensive breakdowns and bad plays from probably every player this season. I know that Perron is a popular player to call out, but he doesn't lose games by himself. To me, it seems like a team wide thing- maybe there are a few players who it doesn't apply to. Do the Blues have a winning culture within the lockerroom? It seems like last year they did, but they've been so up and down this season. It's true what Strickland said about the Blues' identity: they don't have one. Last year, they were a solid defensive team who could still score 3 goals a game- and when they did, you felt confident that they'd win. I have no idea what their identity is right now.

How true is that. Remember that stat about us scoring 3+ goals? Didn't we only lose like one game all year when we scored 3 goals? We clearly prided ourselves on never giving up more then two goals. This then led to the mindset that we could win every game, because two goals isn't all that much. Now it seems like we just accept that we're going to get scored on a lot.

No identity.

Dolph Ziggler 03-27-2013 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarvinSigX (Post 62517453)
Who creates more, Perron or Frank? Who costs more? Who's taking penalties left and right?

I called for a breakout year from Perron...Not the case. The guy (among others) has been flat out detrimental to the team at times.

Preaching to the choir. I didn't have as high expectations as some but I thought he would be less of a detriment when he wasn't scoring.

I agree on the notion that it isn't just Perron (even if he is the biggest offender).

Unless your name is Vladimir Sobotka, you've helped contribute to some of the defensive flaws this year.

Multimoodia 03-27-2013 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Note (Post 62517329)
Perron is hands down one of my favorite players of all time but I do think he is stubborn with the puck and waits until his passing lanes close sohe can take a shot, share the wealth bro. Lets pass a bit more and let the points pile up. The last thing i want to do is trade him but gotta start somewhere .

I disagree.

Perron's issue this year (more so than previous) is that he is holding on to the puck too long to try to make the perfect pass.

This was evident a couple of years ago (under Payne) but seems to have re-surfaced again.
Whether this is a function of him trying to do too much, still figuring out linemates, or whatever is of a good question, but I don't think he wants to take the shot.
Never has in previous years at any rate.

ManyIdeas 03-27-2013 12:28 PM

"who" is puck, "what" is behind opposing goalie.

SirPaste 03-27-2013 12:31 PM

No captian or assistant captians at practice today.....interesting.

bleedblue1223 03-27-2013 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirPaste (Post 62522951)
No captian or assistant captians at practice today.....interesting.

It was probably optional. Lots of players aren't at practices this season for that reason. We do have a game tomorrow, so it makes sense that players are resting up.

Bruv 03-27-2013 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maya Blue (Post 62513649)
Their immaturity is showing. They got cocky after last season and their fast start this year. They think their personal skill is what got them there.

They are soft and have a hard time dealing with adversity.

There needs to be a shakeup to wake these guys up. Trade a Perron, Oshie or Backes. A message needs to be sent.

We're currently in the playoff race and only 2 points from the 4th seed and a message needs to be sent?

Yeah. Okay.... :shakehead

SirPaste 03-27-2013 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 (Post 62523115)
It was probably optional. Lots of players aren't at practices this season for that reason. We do have a game tomorrow, so it makes sense that players are resting up.

Still, after having a closed door meeting with Hitch last night you would think that they would try and set an example after two bad losses, I dont know.


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