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-   -   Rumor: Trade Rumors Thread: Part VI (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1388095)

Trxjw 03-28-2013 11:46 AM

Trade Rumors Thread: Part VI
 
Edit:

This is for legitimate rumor discussion only. Please take roster speculation to the speculation thread.

Thanks,
Mods

Bluenote13 03-28-2013 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 62624109)
Two teams that refuse to take a few steps back in order to take many steps forward.

And lets not call that tanking, tanking is bottoming out on purpose. These two teams have tried to stay competitive, in doing so they have gone against the cards they were given. Instead of just playing those cards and taking some temporary lumps, they tried to proactively build a winner with PAST performers, instead of focusing on the future. We've tried to do both, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Trxjw 03-28-2013 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenote13 (Post 62624725)
And lets not call that tanking, tanking is bottoming out on purpose. These two teams have tried to stay competitive, in doing so they have gone against the cards they were given. Instead of just playing those cards and taking some temporary lumps, they tried to proactively build a winner with PAST performers, instead of focusing on the future. We've tried to do both, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Right. Honestly, my real fear is that the Rangers become a team even more similar to the Flames as the years go by and our players get older. I look at how long Kipper has been carrying that team in net, and it worries me that Hank will have the same fate.

BrianBoyle 03-28-2013 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 62625727)
Right. Honestly, my real fear is that the Rangers become a team even more similar to the Flames as the years go by and our players get older. I look at how long Kipper has been carrying that team in net, and it worries me that Hank will have the same fate.

The main difference between the Rangers and Flames: Derek Stepan.

Calgary hasn't developed a player like Stepan in eons. They haven't a top line center in like 15 years. The Rangers also have their top-3 D corp set and still young in MDZ, Staal, and McDonagh.

The young pieces are in place. The Rangers need to start making smaller moves to compliment the core, not add another huge piece. I feel pretty confident building around Stepan, Nash, McDonagh, Staal, MDZ, and Kreider.

We DO need another young 2nd line C - hopefully Miller can ease his way into that role, I like how he's looked at center this season.

Bluenote13 03-28-2013 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 62625727)
Right. Honestly, my real fear is that the Rangers become a team even more similar to the Flames as the years go by and our players get older. I look at how long Kipper has been carrying that team in net, and it worries me that Hank will have the same fate.

That's easily the worst thing I can think of. I will always love Hank, the way my Dad loved Giacomin, just don't want to be at the Garden chanting 'Henrik, Henrik' as he comes in for first game as a Red Wing in 2020 ;)

Clowes Line 03-28-2013 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenith (Post 62626053)
The main difference between the Rangers and Flames: Derek Stepan.

Calgary hasn't developed a player like Stepan in eons. They haven't a top line center in like 15 years. The Rangers also have their top-3 D corp set and still young in MDZ, Staal, and McDonagh.

The young pieces are in place. The Rangers need to start making smaller moves to compliment the core, not add another huge piece. I feel pretty confident building around Stepan, Nash, McDonagh, Staal, MDZ, and Kreider.

We DO need another young 2nd line C - hopefully Miller can ease his way into that role, I like how he's looked at center this season.

I look at this post, and I then I look at our team on the ice, and it just doesn't make sense...

I love what Torts preaches, but if his system continues to fail next year, he's gotta go.

-31- 03-28-2013 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenith (Post 62626053)
The main difference between the Rangers and Flames: Derek Stepan.

Calgary hasn't developed a player like Stepan in eons. They haven't a top line center in like 15 years. The Rangers also have their top-3 D corp set and still young in MDZ, Staal, and McDonagh.

The young pieces are in place. The Rangers need to start making smaller moves to compliment the core, not add another huge piece. I feel pretty confident building around Stepan, Nash, McDonagh, Staal, MDZ, and Kreider.

We DO need another young 2nd line C - hopefully Miller can ease his way into that role, I like how he's looked at center this season.

Up until they've reminded me of the Rangers 1998-2003 so much.

-Aching for a rebuild, but keep reloading
-Middling around 9-11 in the conference consistently.
-An abundance of retreads.

Trxjw 03-28-2013 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenith (Post 62626053)
The main difference between the Rangers and Flames: Derek Stepan.

Calgary hasn't developed a player like Stepan in eons. They haven't a top line center in like 15 years. The Rangers also have their top-3 D corp set and still young in MDZ, Staal, and McDonagh.

The young pieces are in place. The Rangers need to start making smaller moves to compliment the core, not add another huge piece. I feel pretty confident building around Stepan, Nash, McDonagh, Staal, MDZ, and Kreider.

We DO need another young 2nd line C - hopefully Miller can ease his way into that role, I like how he's looked at center this season.

Look, I've been Steps cheerleader since he was drafted, but it's far too early to definitively say he's a top-line center. He's had a phenomenal 15 or 20 game stretch, but it's going to take more than that to show he can be a #1C in this league.

4 or 5 years ago, Calgary was the current NYR. They had a long drought of no playoff appearances, then a string of post season showings followed up by summers of "retooling" to fill holes exposed from early playoff exits, and now they're spinning their wheels again. Were their rosters as good on papers as ours? Not quite, but the results were very similar.

I like our youth, but each year we wait for a young guy to fill a hole is another year Lundqvist loses. Another year of wear and tear Cally and Girardi. Another year Richards looks older and slower. Another year of Nash's prime wasted. There's a very big difference between building around those very young players, and looking for those players to fill the holes we need to compete while our real stars are in their prime.

Bluenote13 03-28-2013 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 62627375)
Look, I've been Steps cheerleader since he was drafted, but it's far too early to definitively say he's a top-line center. He's had a phenomenal 15 or 20 game stretch, but it's going to take more than that to show he can be a #1C in this league.

4 or 5 years ago, Calgary was the current NYR. They had a long drought of no playoff appearances, then a string of post season showings followed up by summers of "retooling" to fill holes exposed from early playoff exits, and now they're spinning their wheels again. Were their rosters as good on papers as ours? Not quite, but the results were very similar.

I like our youth, but each year we wait for a young guy to fill a hole is another year Lundqvist loses. Another year of wear and tear Cally and Girardi. Another year Richards looks older and slower. Another year of Nash's prime wasted. There's a very big difference between building around those very young players, and looking for those players to fill the holes we need to compete while our real stars are in their prime.

Good points.

When you look at the overall picture the holes have always been there. We have too many 'scorers', we don't have enough scoring!, we have too many grunts, we don't have any toughness!, Our coach is too safe, our coach does not 'let them loose!'. And every year it changes and every year we lose a sprint instead of trying to win the long distance marathon.

It amazes me how FA contracts from the past 10 years still haunt this team, along with the 2003 draft:p:

NYR Viper 03-28-2013 01:40 PM

Quote:

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 1m
#Flames Jay Bouwmeester admits he and team have talked about possibility of a trade. Hearing as many as 6 teams interested in him.
JBo is next

Trxjw 03-28-2013 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenote13 (Post 62632499)
Good points.

When you look at the overall picture the holes have always been there. We have too many 'scorers', we don't have enough scoring!, we have too many grunts, we don't have any toughness!, Our coach is too safe, our coach does not 'let them loose!'. And every year it changes and every year we lose a sprint instead of trying to win the long distance marathon.

It amazes me how FA contracts from the past 10 years still haunt this team, along with the 2003 draft:p:

I don't know if the powers that be have a grasp on the overall picture. They want to fill holes in the roster by drafting support players, but those players take years to develop; So by the time your supporting cast is ready, your group of stars are on the wrong side of 30 and are being dangled as trade bait or are in jeopardy of being bought out.

I don't think it's a coincidence that our most successful season in years came when we were comprised primarily of young, home-grown players. The problem was the timing and that we had developed too many tractors and not enough Ferrari's.

Rangers Fail 03-28-2013 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 (Post 62633569)
JBo is next

Yes! Firesale in Calgary.

Detroit has to be the frontrunner.

Kershaw 03-28-2013 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 62624109)
Both teams addressed their needs through major trades or UFA acquisitions instead of building those assets internally. The real difference is that we landed bigger names.

It's safe to say that we're in a slightly better position than Calgary because we've been fortunate in developing a younger core of players, but that doesn't change the fact that we still haven't been able to make much progress in the right direction. We've gone from missing the playoffs regularly to regularly being bounced out of the playoffs in the first or second round. That's fine for a few years, but it's been 8 years since the last lockout and we're still struggling to claw our way into the playoffs. Calgary is in a similar situation. Two teams that refuse to take a few steps back in order to take many steps forward.

Completely agree 100%. This team is in a state of mediocrity. Not bad enough for good draft picks and not good enough to be contenders. The next few years and the inevitable decline of Hank will be tough to swallow.

NYR Viper 03-28-2013 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind (Post 62635321)
Yes! Firesale in Calgary.

Detroit has to be the frontrunner.

If I'm Detroit, why would I go after JBo when I could go after Gaborik? :naughty:

NYR Sting 03-28-2013 02:09 PM

Ive been making these arguments for years, and they were usually met with scorn.

The first mistake was trading for Jagr and surrounding him with his posse. That was a total waste. Hardly anyone from those teams is still here. Those were stopgap teams, except the stop gaps are supposed to hold you over in years where you get high picks. We didn't do that.

The second mistake was trying to surround those aging players with terrible free agent signings instead of realizing that those teams were miserably flawed and needed to be scrapped.

Mistake three was signing Gaborik instead of dismantling and getting high picks, or at least being patient and getting a legit dynamic multi talent like Kovalchuk.

Chance after chance to rebuild and get a high draft pick to develop a great top line forward was passed over.

You don't go anywhere in this league without some homegrown franchise forwards anchoring your top line (even te year the Bruins won the Cup, Crosby was out). Not only did the Rangers refuse to go through a natural rebuild, but the one chance they had where a top line prospect fell into their laps, they drafted a role player defenseman.

This team does everything backwards, and what you get in they case is what we have now: not bad, but certainly not good enough.

NikC 03-28-2013 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 62624109)
Both teams addressed their needs through major trades or UFA acquisitions instead of building those assets internally. The real difference is that we landed bigger names.

It's safe to say that we're in a slightly better position than Calgary because we've been fortunate in developing a younger core of players, but that doesn't change the fact that we still haven't been able to make much progress in the right direction. We've gone from missing the playoffs regularly to regularly being bounced out of the playoffs in the first or second round. That's fine for a few years, but it's been 8 years since the last lockout and we're still struggling to claw our way into the playoffs. Calgary is in a similar situation. Two teams that refuse to take a few steps back in order to take many steps forward.

The time to take a few steps back IMO, was immediately after the firesale prior the lockout. We canít be delusional either. We follow a NYC hockey team, where there is big $ involved. There is just no way we could be the Islanders of Manhattan.
We signed Jagr and his Czech mates and hockey was fun in NY again. There are many fans that wouldnít trade those days for anything, even some that insist we should have went the Nylander/Jagr route a lot longer.

The fact is though, the Jagr era set us back at least 2 years at least. Letís not forget the loss of Cherepanov and we would have had another 30g + scorer in the lineup (RIP). Add in a couple of horrific draft blunders. Here we sit with an all world goalie, some good core youth, and handful of top 3 forwards, some of which are underperforming horribly. The real key IMO lies in players like Krieder, Miller, and hopefully McIlrath becoming what we envision them to be. Iím not happy things have taken this long, but thatís the way it goes sometimes in this sport. It looks like SJís window might be closing, after being dominant for a very long time, with nothing to show for it. Look at the Islanders, the Oilers who are still waiting for their lumps to pay off despite the amount of talent. Despite some problems, I think weíre nearly there.

-31- 03-28-2013 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 (Post 62635739)
If I'm Detroit, why would I go after JBo when I could go after Gaborik? :naughty:

Think they need Bouwmeester more. He's having an outstanding year.

Bob Richards 03-28-2013 02:15 PM

I can always count on Sting to remind me why this team makes me lose years off my life. :(

NikC 03-28-2013 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kershaw (Post 62635713)
Completely agree 100%. This team is in a state of mediocrity. Not bad enough for good draft picks and not good enough to be contenders. The next few years and the inevitable decline of Hank will be tough to swallow.

Lundqvist is 31 and (if he stays ;)) should provide VG goaltending for at least 5 more yrs. that should be more than enough time to build a real offense in front of him.

Drewbackatu* 03-28-2013 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenote13 (Post 62622077)
1998 is not 10 years ago.

And again, every team has had to contend with the lockout and injuries, those are more excuses.




Fair points. Resolutions to fix things? We'd be here all day, bottom line is the one constant has been the GM and ownership. They still have not gotten the job done.

Right on, way to go! I'm whistling and saying, "Here Here" after reading your post. The Rangers will continue to be a picture of mediocrity as long as an imbecile like Dolan owns it and an out of touch dinosaur like Sather runs it.

For fifty(50)+ years, I have been a loyal fan attending games (since 1960 at the old garden) and during that time, there has been one constant all those years and that's this:
-no matter who has run the team from Emile Francis(dreadful his last 4 yrs here) to John Ferguson to Espo to Neal Smith, this has been arguably the worst run organization of all the original six(6) teams hands down!

RangerBoy 03-28-2013 02:19 PM

Quote:

Told #CBJ C Mark Letestu is close to signing a multi-year contract extension w Blue Jackets. He would be a UFA this summer.
https://twitter.com/Aportzline/statu...52536669560832

Kershaw 03-28-2013 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NikC (Post 62636763)
Lundqvist is 31 and (if he stays ;)) should provide VG goaltending for at least 5 more yrs. that should be more than enough time to build a real offense in front of him.

We said that in 2007. "Now that we have a legit goalie with offense, we are cup contenders!!!11!!". They don't have an elite 1C or elite 1D and without those pieces, the Rangers won't win a cup anytime soon.

And Lundqvist will probably get a back injury soon, a severe one. Primarily due to carrying the team for 7 years and counting.

Drewbackatu* 03-28-2013 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR Sting (Post 62636163)
Ive been making these arguments for years, and they were usually met with scorn.

The first mistake was trading for Jagr and surrounding him with his posse. That was a total waste. Hardly anyone from those teams is still here. Those were stopgap teams, except the stop gaps are supposed to hold you over in years where you get high picks. We didn't do that.

The second mistake was trying to surround those aging players with terrible free agent signings instead of realizing that those teams were miserably flawed and needed to be scrapped.

Mistake three was signing Gaborik instead of dismantling and getting high picks, or at least being patient and getting a legit dynamic multi talent like Kovalchuk.

Chance after chance to rebuild and get a high draft pick to develop a great top line forward was passed over.

You don't go anywhere in this league without some homegrown franchise forwards anchoring your top line (even te year the Bruins won the Cup, Crosby was out). Not only did the Rangers refuse to go through a natural rebuild, but the one chance they had where a top line prospect fell into their laps, they drafted a role player defenseman.

This team does everything backwards, and what you get in they case is what we have now: not bad, but certainly not good enough.

This is perhaps the most brutally honest and refreshing post that I've read about the Ranger's organization since I've been posting here.

Nice to hear from an honest fan who doesn't wear rose colored glasses, wax poetic and make a bunch of lame *** excuses about every player that finds his way here.

NikC 03-28-2013 02:31 PM

Sheesh!... alot of sour lemons in here today...

this ain't ruining my weekend.



http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&w=350&h=254

Drewbackatu* 03-28-2013 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenith (Post 62637743)
The main difference between the Rangers and Flames: Derek Stepan.

Calgary hasn't developed a player like Stepan in eons. They haven't a top line center in like 15 years. The Rangers also have their top-3 D corp set and still young in MDZ, Staal, and McDonagh.

The young pieces are in place. The Rangers need to start making smaller moves to compliment the core, not add another huge piece. I feel pretty confident building around Stepan, Nash, McDonagh, Staal, MDZ, and Kreider.

We DO need another young 2nd line C - hopefully Miller can ease his way into that role, I like how he's looked at center this season.

Look, I really think it's way too early in the process to be classifying Stepan as a 1C going forward. All the other 1C's in the league are way superior to him in size, skills, production, etcetera.
If Richards isn't going to man up, then buy him out and get a legitimate 1C!


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