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-   -   Last year for Peoria (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1389181)

bluesfan4life 03-29-2013 04:10 PM

Last year for Peoria
 
Central IL news just reported the Blues are ceasing the Rivermen and buying out the Peoria Civic Center contract. Will the Chicago Wolves be our new affilate and Vancouver buys and moves the Rivermen?

http://centralillinoisproud.com/fulltext?nxd_id=315192

CarvinSigX 03-29-2013 04:37 PM

They really need to invest in our AHL development now. We have a bunch of guys coming in soon.

Alklha 03-29-2013 04:53 PM

If we are moving them to a more viable market, then this is very good news.

If we are selling them to the Canucks and having Chicago as our affiliate, then that is a very questionable move.

Multimoodia 03-29-2013 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alklha (Post 62726239)
If we are moving them to a more viable market, then this is very good news.

If we are selling them to the Canucks and having Chicago as our affiliate, then that is a very questionable move.

Depends.

If they want to keep the Blues in St. Louis and afford to pay the upcoming RFA's Stillman has to unload the Rivermen.

This year has not been good financially for either Stillman or the Taylors (rumor, but the people who have informed me of this would be in the know) coupled with the facts that:

The chance that the Blues miss the playoffs and for certain are not going to be making a deep run regardless means the extra money they thought would be coming in almost certainly won't.
and
The wink and a handshake deal between the city and Stillman has been forgotten (love that entertainment tax) by the city leaving Tom in a bit of a spot.

This has been a confluence of factors and I cannot say it was unexpected. It has however proven unfortunate.

This is also why I suspect one of the RFAs will be leaving along with another more major salaried player.

Yoko Ono* 03-29-2013 05:45 PM

They haven't used Peroia to develope players so why do they even need an AHL affiliate?

Alklha 03-29-2013 05:48 PM

If we want to keep costs down and have a good team on the ice, then we need to develop prospects to the best of our ability and them move high salary guys to make way. I don't know how much of a loss that Peoria runs at, but I do know that if they are sold that is only $5m-ish that we bring in. If Peoria is haemorrhaging money, and we viewed that there were no viable relocation candidates then it is understandable.

You want to make a point to the city? Accomplish something, then make it very clear that we are looking to move the team to Kansas City/Seattle/Quebec/wherever and force their hands.

Our revenue streams are heavily limited, from factors such as parking to the ridiculous concessions contract. It doesn't change much though, if we can't afford to pay to keep the talent we have, then the team shouldn't be in the city.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoko Ono (Post 62729109)
They haven't used Peroia to develope players so why do they even need an AHL affiliate?

Our NHL team was that damn pathetic that anyone half decent bypassed Peoria. Now we have a very solid team in the NHL (or should have), it means we'll finally have an influx of real talent going into the AHL.

Multimoodia 03-29-2013 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alklha (Post 62729241)
If we want to keep costs down and have a good team on the ice, then we need to develop prospects to the best of our ability and them move high salary guys to make way. I don't know how much of a loss that Peoria runs at, but I do know that if they are sold that is only $5m-ish that we bring in. If Peoria is haemorrhaging money, and we viewed that there were no viable relocation candidates then it is understandable.

I agree, long term that is definitely the way to go. Preaching to the choir and all that.
But it does not help the fluidity of cash issue that is currently just beyond the horizon which the Blues are looking at.

Quote:

You want to make a point to the city? Accomplish something, then make it very clear that we are looking to move the team to Kansas City/Seattle/Quebec/wherever and force their hands.
Agreed, but that is often a problem when you have true local ownership. Makes it harder to carry out those threats without looking like a heel and interrupting your real business.
Plus, knowing St. Louis city, they would spend the entire time trying to keep from falling over their own feet and fighting amongst themselves 4 years after the Blues had left.

Quote:

Our revenue streams are heavily limited, from factors such as parking to the ridiculous concessions contract. It doesn't change much though, if we can't afford to pay to keep the talent we have, then the team shouldn't be in the city.
Which has been something on my mind since I had heard about this. Perhaps selling the Blues to Stillman was a mistake. Perhaps the team should have been moved to a more viable environment.

Yoko Ono* 03-29-2013 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multimoodia (Post 62729669)
I agree, long term that is definitely the way to go. Preaching to the choir and all that.
But it does not help the fluidity of cash issue that is currently just beyond the horizon which the Blues are looking at.


Agreed, but that is often a problem when you have true local ownership. Makes it harder to carry out those threats without looking like a heel and interrupting your real business.
Plus, knowing St. Louis city, they would spend the entire time trying to keep from falling over their own feet and fighting amongst themselves 4 years after the Blues had left.


Which has been something on my mind since I had heard about this. Perhaps selling the Blues to Stillman was a mistake. Perhaps the team should have been moved to a more viable environment.

Like Quebec?

Multimoodia 03-29-2013 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoko Ono (Post 62729825)
Like Quebec?

Possibly, yes. Certainly that would solve attendance issues.
It may simply be that the Blues need to move out of the downtown core.
To be quite honest there are a lot of entertainment businesses who are relatively ambivalent toward the Blues (although they do prefer them to the Rams for other reasons) and do not go out of their way to stand behind them.
Additionally moving would give the Blues better control of many of the accessory fees like parking which they get virtually nothing of now.

Kiel Center Partners did themselves no favors when they signed the deal to bring the Blues to 14th and Clark. The fact that each successive ownership has that to work off from the start and then any additional mismanagement from the previous ownership groups means continually starting behind the proverbial eight ball.
The only way I see this vicious cycle stopping is (least to most likely):

1) Get an owner with enough power/panache/whatever to change the lease

2) Move out (or at least have a good honest threat to) of the Scottrade to a new facility.

3) Leave the St. Louis metro entirely.

I do not want to see it, but money is money is money.

STLBLUES44 03-29-2013 07:53 PM

would Kansas City be a possibility? close and would definitely have a nice fanbase. Or are they only looking for an NHL team

JustOneB4IDie 03-30-2013 02:50 AM

Multimoodia and Alklha you nailed it and it's a reason to worry on the continuing financial hemorrhaging issues that any Owner of the Blues has had to deal with with the asinine bad Lease at Scottrade, Concessions, Entertainment Tax, etc... It seems like after roughly 5 years , the Blues are once again for sale? And ranked dead last in NHL franchise value does not bode well for the future. Money is Money and Stillman doesn't have enough. It's very depressing.

JustOneB4IDie 03-30-2013 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alklha (Post 62726239)
If we are moving them to a more viable market, then this is very good news.

If we are selling them to the Canucks and having Chicago as our affiliate, then that is a very questionable move.

Per Jeremy Rutherford : The Blues are expected to soon sign an agreement to sell the Rivermen to the Vancouver Canucks. The club would then align itself with the Canucks' current AHL affiliate, the Chicago Wolves, who would own and run operations for the Blues.

HooliganX2 03-30-2013 03:04 AM

Could it be Stillman is worse the Checketts? This really has me questioning the finances of our ownership group.

JustOneB4IDie 03-30-2013 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooliganX2 (Post 62757089)
Could it be Stillman is worse the Checketts? This really has me questioning the finances of our ownership group.

That's a real possibility. Anyone else noticed that Stillman hasn't done many interviews since buying the Blues?

AndyPipkin 03-30-2013 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alklha (Post 62729241)
Our NHL team was that damn pathetic that anyone half decent bypassed Peoria. Now we have a very solid team in the NHL (or should have), it means we'll finally have an influx of real talent going into the AHL.

Good luck with Chicago guys. Word of warning, they like to bring in a lot of their own veterans and then play them a lot.

Maxil 03-30-2013 03:02 PM

I live up in KC and we have the missouri mavericks in independence in the CHL, any chance they could be pulled out of the chl and added to the AHL?

Several times I've been there it had good attendance, but I don't know if KC really wants another pro team. Royals and Chiefs games have been having nightmares keeping numbers up last couple years

sh724 03-30-2013 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooliganX2 (Post 62757089)
Could it be Stillman is worse the Checketts? This really has me questioning the finances of our ownership group.

Well that depends on what you mean by 'worse'. Stillman has a much longer connection to the team and the city and cares a lot more about hockey and the Blues than Checketts did. However Checketts had more money to start with then Stillman has. Checketts was mostly spending other people's money trying to make the Blues profitable, he also had 50% of the concession money paid to him at once to spend on his investment. Stillman does not have those luxury and really needs the team to be profitable right away. Checketts did not intend to make a profit for the first few years and when his time table to turn a profit did not pan out Towerbrooke was ready to cash in their investment. The main difference is that for Checketts the Blues were pretty much an investment vehicle that he was trying to make profitable, in his career he has never had any long term business ventures. Stillman is more interested in the long term (if he can get there) and he sees the team as another Business that he owns and must work at to be succesful. If Stillman had the money available to him that Checketts did when he first bought the team, then the he would be able to do a lot more than what he is currently able to do.

Rivfan 03-30-2013 04:47 PM

rivermen
 
Being a Peoria local, and growing up watching the Rivermen...I can tell you that the organization has been in decline for quite a few years. Ticket prices have skyrocketed, concessions are rediculous.
Attendance has been horrible for quite some time. There hasn't been any effort to engage fans besides the occasional cast members of Hanna Montana, but that hasn't been for a couple of years.

I've been attending Rivermen games for 25 years. I remember games being sold out all the time. Especially early 90's. Alot of great nhl players have come though here.

I will be sad to see them go. I was even a Jr. Rivermen in my travel hockey days. But not suprised.

My hope is that a junior level hockey team will be brought in. I've never enjoyed watching more than I did when I went to a Cedar Rapids game. The place only held a couple thousand, but the organization put on a show, not just the players. And the sold out crowd, was really excited about being there. The atmosphere for a regular seaon game was almost as exciting as the last blues playoff game i went to last year.

Something the Rivermen havent had for over a decade. They didn't engage the fans or create excitement and atmosphere that would probably kept the team here They just let it rot away. They were considered an expected operating cost and a loss by the Blues org. Its a shame, No one wanted bring back what the place use to be about. But maybe it's all for the better and I'll get my Junior team with kids who play there hearts out every game.


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