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-   -   Leader in points per minute played (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1391189)

Calirose 03-31-2013 06:30 PM

Leader in points per minute played
 
Very popular stat in basketball, no reason not to look at it here especially with such a big discrepancy in ice time among the top 10 point leaders.


...... ...... ...... Total Ice Time (Mins) ...... Points ...... Points Per Minute ...... Rank

1) Crosby...... ...... 758.16 ...... ...... ...... 56 ...... ...... .07386 ...... ...... 1
2) Stammer...... ...... 749.36 ...... ...... ...... 46 ...... ...... .06138 ...... ...... 4
3) Kunitz...... ...... 658.8 ...... ...... ...... 44 ...... ...... .06679 ...... ...... 3
4) MSL...... ...... 750.04 ...... ...... ...... 43 ...... ...... .05733 ...... ...... 6
5) Kane...... ...... 689.52 ...... ...... ...... 42 ...... ...... .06092 ...... ...... 5
6) Kadri...... ...... 577.8 ...... ...... ...... 39 ...... ...... .06749 ...... ...... 2
7) E. Staal...... ...... 671.55 ...... ...... ...... 38 ...... ...... .05658 ...... ...... 7
8) Getzlaf...... ...... 691.56 ...... ...... ...... 38 ...... ...... .05494 ...... ...... 8
9) Tavares...... ...... 718.52 ...... ...... ...... 36 ...... ...... .05010 ...... ...... 10
10) Toews...... ...... 651.44 ...... ...... ...... 34 ...... ...... .05219 ...... ...... 9

So Kadri is leading healthy players in points/minute...

Novak Djokovic 03-31-2013 06:32 PM

I hate this argument. There is a reason as to why he's getting those type of minutes.

umwoz 03-31-2013 06:34 PM

I see your point.... You're saying if Kadri played as many minutes as Stamkos, St. Louis, Kane he'd have as many points? Right?

Wow, he must have the worst coach in the league then!

Semantics 03-31-2013 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novak Djokovic (Post 62876895)
I hate this argument. There is a reason as to why he's getting those type of minutes.

Exactly, for example, last night he only got 15 minutes because Carlyle shut down his best players in the 3rd period with a 4-0 lead. Kadri is so good he's causing his own ice time to be reduced.

BayStBullies 03-31-2013 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novak Djokovic (Post 62876895)
I hate this argument. There is a reason as to why he's getting those type of minutes.

I'll bite... why?

blasted_Sabre 03-31-2013 06:38 PM

OP is not a Leafs fan.....

Calirose 03-31-2013 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre (Post 62877389)
OP is not a Leafs fan.....

Kings actually.

umwoz 03-31-2013 06:42 PM

Give him more ice time so he can get as many points as Kane and Stammer!

Calirose 03-31-2013 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umwoz (Post 62876975)
I see your point.... You're saying if Kadri played as many minutes as Stamkos, St. Louis, Kane he'd have as many points? Right?

Wow, he must have the worst coach in the league then!

Nope. Just stats. No conclusions you'll see.

Calirose 03-31-2013 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umwoz (Post 62877741)
Give him more ice time so he can get as many points as Kane and Stammer!

I'm sure if he had more ice time he'd have more points...

Novak Djokovic 03-31-2013 06:47 PM

Why doesn't Carlyle just double Kadri's time... and then he can lead the league in points. :sarcasm:

TheFinalWord 03-31-2013 08:56 PM

And then there's Lupul

TOI: 157:27
Points: 13
Points per Minute: 0.0827

Obviously, it is a small sample size and I don't think he would keep up the pace over a full season, but it is quite the number.

theaub 03-31-2013 09:06 PM

If Kadri played the whole game he'd have almost 150 points already

Fire Carlyle imo

Pi 03-31-2013 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novak Djokovic (Post 62878077)
Why doesn't Carlyle just double Kadri's time... and then he can lead the league in points. :sarcasm:

When you have superpowers...it's best to use them wisely.

We're up 4-0. If we unleash Kadri, he'd break Sittler's record but he's a Leaf too...

Just not the right time and place to do that.

NickRash61 03-31-2013 10:28 PM

I'm a leafs fan and trying to be unbiased here.

Kadri's plays a lot of protected minutes (mind you he did play against Stamkos).

Carlyle has come out and said he allows Kadri to play against teams poorer lines to assist in his development and confidence.

If Kadri was playing against opponent's top lines his points/minute would drop off.

ekespou 04-16-2013 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novak Djokovic (Post 62876895)
I hate this argument. There is a reason as to why he's getting those type of minutes.

The whole point of advanced hockey stats is that often coaches and front offices aren't doing the optimal thing. If you're going to assume that coaches always do the right thing then there's basically no reason for this forum even to exist.

jigglysquishy 04-16-2013 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekespou (Post 64047461)
The whole point of advanced hockey stats is that often coaches and front offices aren't doing the optimal thing. If you're going to assume that coaches always do the right thing then there's basically no reason for this forum even to exist.

It also assumes that any increase in minutes would be "offensive" minutes. Those extra minutes may be on the PK, or defending against an extra attacker at the end of the game, or defensive zone starts.

Points per minute played is a stat that penalizes players that play the PK.

Kelly23 04-16-2013 01:32 PM

Its not the best measure, just to use the Bruins as an example becuase I know them best.

The time on ice is spread more evenly in Boston certanly on the PP.

Bruins have the least amount of PP's in the league, there best players get 45 seconds a pop.

The Penguins are much higher on PP's and 5-3's, and they will throw out Crosby for all two minutes.

If the Penguins are getting 6 minutes off pp per game Crosby gets 5minutes
The Bruins get 3 minutes off PP per game Bergeron gets 1.3 minutes

Penguins are short handed less and Crosby won't play to much time on that unit
The Bruins get 4 minutes shot handed a Game Bergeron might get over 2 minutes.

Bergeron will get 16 minutes 5v5
Crosby will get 19 minutes 5v5

An average game with these numbers Bergeron toi around 20minutes
An average game with these for Crosby toi 23.

not shorthanded Bergeron 18
Crosby 23
So Bergeron will get penillized for 2 minutes in a non scoreing situation, this does not get into linemates, kind of an empty stat. offensive zone toi per game might work better.

ProfessorMcFatty 04-16-2013 01:54 PM

Stats are fun to look at, but they can be misleading.

For example, if I said 80% of car accidents involve a car that is speeding, you might think that speeding causes the accident. But maybe 90% of people just happen to drive above the speed limit.

Anyway,

TOI doesn't factor in:
  • Power Play
  • Penalty Kill
  • Fatigue (from more/less minutes)
  • Injuries (from more/less minutes)
  • Empty net goals
  • etc.

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

danishh 04-16-2013 03:06 PM

do you have ES points per ES minute played?

while it wouldnt fix all the issues (ie top players who take tough assignments vs 2nd/3rd liners who get 2nd/3rd d pairings), it would probably fix the pk and pp toi bias.

Crosbyfan 04-16-2013 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorMcFatty (Post 64053081)
Stats are fun to look at, but they can be misleading.

For example, if I said 80% of car accidents involve a car that is speeding, you might think that speeding causes the accident. But maybe 90% of people just happen to drive above the speed limit.

Anyway,

TOI doesn't factor in:
  • Power Play
  • Penalty Kill
  • Fatigue (from more/less minutes)
  • Injuries (from more/less minutes)
  • Empty net goals
  • etc.

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Say 73% of people prefer coke over pepsi or can't tell the difference 3 out of 5 times...

Could mean 1% prefer coke, 72% can't tell the difference 3 out of 5 times and the rest of the time they prefer pepsi, and the remaining 27% always prefer pepsi...

In which case pepsi would be the preferred choice 558 times out of 1000 and Coke only 10

Ryan English 04-16-2013 04:50 PM

Here are the 5v5 stats of players with more than 400 minutes played. (including Points Per 60 minutes)

Surprising to see Cullen at #3 but I suppose he can do his thing in the 3rd line slot with Koivu, Parise and others for teams to worry about defensively.


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