HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Pittsburgh Penguins (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   Crosby's unfortunately small trophy case and his legacy (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1391211)

Til the End of Time 03-31-2013 07:00 PM

Crosby's unfortunately small trophy case and his legacy
 
what does everyone think of crosby's trophy case up until this point?

i think it is very unfortunate that he has won only one art ross and mvp.

i believe that a player's legacy is largely determined by the amount of the individual trophies one accumulates during their career. we can say it doesn't matter now, that everyone recognizes crosby is the best player in the game, but take a look at the history of hockey board-- arguments for/against players inevitably rely heavily on total points/goals/assists and individual trophies.

crosby imo has the talent and drive to be a top 10 player of all-time, but it's not going to happen if these sorts of injuries happen. of course, the timetable from the latest injury is unkown, but concerning regardless.

i would like to hear other folk's opinions on how these sorts of injuries will affect crosby's legacy.

Whale Mingo 03-31-2013 07:05 PM

Of course injuries are keeping him from piling up stats, but they aren't going to effect his legacy outside of being part of it.

I'm not an NBA fan, but I know a little about it. I have no idea how many points Charles Barkley scored in his career, but I know he doesn't have a ring. I also know (in as much as anyone outside of his head can know) that Charles would trade all those stats for a ring.

Sid is who he is. A few hundred points either way aren't going to define his career.

Crafton 03-31-2013 07:07 PM

i resigned myself to hoping for 3x3x3x3 for both Malkin and Crosby. if they can both earn the Cup, Hart, Art Ross and Lindsay three times each over the course of their career then i'll be more than satisfied. only Shore, Howe and Gretzky have more than three Hart trophies. only Mikita, Jagr, Esposito, Mario, Howe and Gretzky have more than three Art Ross trophies.

even with all their injuries they have plenty of time to pull off the 3x3x3x3 feat.

Lionel Hutz 03-31-2013 07:08 PM

Everybody who's anybody knows he's the best in the game and if his career continues like it is he'll go down as a great, scoring titles and 82 game seasons or not.

End of Line 03-31-2013 07:15 PM

Despite not having a large trophy case, everyone knows Crosby is simply the best player on the planet. His legend grows by the day regardless.

ColePens 03-31-2013 07:24 PM

This is why I hate stupid awards. Who cares if Sid has any? He has 1 Stanley Cup and 1 Gold Medal and is looking for another Lord Stanley. The guy is looked at as the best player in the game and it's not even close anymore.

He's the best player in the game and wins championships. Anything else is just for fun.


edit: If he wins 1 more Stanley Cup, his legacy is set and he's umm.. 26 years old? :biglaugh: :amazed: :yo:

shureshot66 03-31-2013 07:27 PM

Relative to his era, I don't think he'll be hurt at all. If you're talking about his rank among the all-time greats and you want him mentioned alongside 99 and 66, then yeah, it'll probably hurt him.

That being said, I could still see him winning the Hart even if he sits out all of April. There really aren't any great candidates. I don't think Stamkos on a 13th-place team warrants it. There's no goaltender playing like Hasek -- if Anderson had stayed healthy and led Ottawa to the playoffs with a sub-2.00 GAA, maybe. Too late for that. Maybe Kane if the Hawks finish first overall?

I don't think it's out of the question he still wins the Hart at all.

eXile59 03-31-2013 07:36 PM

I was thinking earlier today that it's just weird that he has been the best player for so many years but because of injuries he has won very little singular trophies compared to how dominate he is.

SteelFish87* 03-31-2013 07:37 PM

so he could miss 1/4 of this season

i still think he should win the Hart in a landslide

Jacques G 03-31-2013 07:37 PM

Like everyone else has said, the trophies mean nothing. He is writing his own legacy, and it will be written regardless of if he has a "most goals scored" trophy.

JTG 03-31-2013 07:41 PM

When one looks back on his career, many more trophies should have been won already, and this season is no exception.

Til the End of Time 03-31-2013 07:43 PM

my concern is that crosby will develop a legacy somewhat akin to forsberg-- a dominant player, fondly remembered by those that watched him play, but one whose legacy is hugely diminished by his lack of health and lack of hardware.

i mean, we all here recognize jagr was the dominant player of his generation, and why is that? because of all those art ross trophies.

i can't get behind this idea that trophies are irrelevant. they are hugely important.

Til the End of Time 03-31-2013 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColePens (Post 62881743)
This is why I hate stupid awards. Who cares if Sid has any? He has 1 Stanley Cup and 1 Gold Medal and is looking for another Lord Stanley. The guy is looked at as the best player in the game and it's not even close anymore.

He's the best player in the game and wins championships. Anything else is just for fun.


edit: If he wins 1 more Stanley Cup, his legacy is set and he's umm.. 26 years old? :biglaugh: :amazed: :yo:

crosby has the talent to be more than the current "best in the game." if that's your barometer than you are setting the bar too low. he has the talent and drive to be an all-time great, top 10 player.

honestly i think if he could somehow stay healthy, win a few more trophies, and lead the pens to 2+ cups, i think a case could be made for him being a more valuable player than lemieux.

AK 03-31-2013 07:50 PM

Crosby's going to be a lot like Mario.

He'll be the greatest, most talented player of his generation and he'll have a truly special career, but it'll be less than it could've been because of injuries. I'm mostly talking about the two lost years because of concussions, but this doesn't help.

I think he finds his way into the top 10 in history. He's not horribly far away right now, and he's still practically baby-faced.

Ray Shero* 03-31-2013 07:54 PM

It really sucks that he loses all these earned trophies because of injuries, I think he'll still go down as one of the greatest players this game had to offer if he keeps doing what he does.

cheesedanish87 03-31-2013 07:55 PM

Crosby is a great player and future HOF but he will never be in the same class as Mario.

KaylaJ 03-31-2013 07:56 PM

So, how many trophies does one need to be inducted? Seriously though, Pavel Bure has a Calder and 2 Rocket trophies, no ring and is in. Why? Cause it's obvious just how damn good he was even without multiple trophies. What does the trophy case of Mats Sundin look like? Mike Gartner? Adam Oates?

GentlemanOfLeisure 03-31-2013 07:57 PM

Pens need to scrap the 70's uniforms. Crosby keeps getting seriously hurt in those. You want retro, go back to the 80's yellows!

Jacques G 03-31-2013 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Til the End of Time (Post 62883851)
my concern is that crosby will develop a legacy somewhat akin to forsberg-- a dominant player, fondly remembered by those that watched him play, but one whose legacy is hugely diminished by his lack of health and lack of hardware.

i mean, we all here recognize jagr was the dominant player of his generation, and why is that? because of all those art ross trophies.

i can't get behind this idea that trophies are irrelevant. they are hugely important.

Forsberg was around before the internet. All anyone has to do is head to Google or the Google equivalent in 20 years and they can see his legacy with their own eyes.

Til the End of Time 03-31-2013 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques G (Post 62885203)
Forsberg was around before the internet. All anyone has to do is head to Google or the Google ewuivalentvin 20 years and they can see his legacy with their own eyes.

trophies>>>youtube highlights. i mean seriously, you can make a highlight video of any scrub look impressive. that's not an objective way to evaluate a player, not even close.

PensPlz 03-31-2013 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 (Post 62885029)
Crosby is a great player and future HOF but he will never be in the same class as Mario.

Individual achievements in a team sport are really meh to me. IMO, it depends on how many cups he can lead this team to. Mario has two, it's safe to say that Sid has a good shot to tie that this season. *knock on wood*

Jacques G 03-31-2013 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Til the End of Time (Post 62885359)
trophies>>>youtube highlights. i mean seriously, you can make a highlight video of any scrub look impressive. that's not an objective way to evaluate a player, not even close.

You don't need YouTube when there are thousands of threads about the guy on every hockey forum in the world.

Solution 03-31-2013 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Til the End of Time (Post 62883851)
my concern is that crosby will develop a legacy somewhat akin to forsberg-- a dominant player, fondly remembered by those that watched him play, but one whose legacy is hugely diminished by his lack of health and lack of hardware.

i mean, we all here recognize jagr was the dominant player of his generation, and why is that? because of all those art ross trophies.

i can't get behind this idea that trophies are irrelevant. they are hugely important.

If Crosby is to be considered only as the Forsberg of his generation, that is not bad. Forsberg was a much better player than Lindros who was the player considered most dominant in that time period. Look at the Stanley cups won by each player.

Jagr was the dominant player of his generation not because of his Art Ross trophies but because he dictated the way the game was played. That is what won him the Art Ross trophies.

If trophies are that important, I guess we should consider Jim Carey better than Olaf Kolzig. Or Ovechkin better than Crosby.

Crafton 03-31-2013 08:06 PM

Crosby: 1 Hart, 1 Lindsay, 1 Art Ross, 1 Cup - Age 25
Malkin: 1 Hart, 1 Lindsay, 2 Art Ross, 1 Cup - Age 26

Crosby still has a shot of picking up a Hart this year.
3x3x3x3 is not an insurmountable goal and would put them in very selective company. maybe i'm completely off - i guess we'll see how this plays out over the next ten or so years.

ColePens 03-31-2013 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Til the End of Time (Post 62884283)
crosby has the talent to be more than the current "best in the game." if that's your barometer than you are setting the bar too low. he has the talent and drive to be an all-time great, top 10 player.

honestly i think if he could somehow stay healthy, win a few more trophies, and lead the pens to 2+ cups, i think a case could be made for him being a more valuable player than lemieux.

You severely underestimate how little I care about individual trophies. I mean I REALLY do not care about them. I don't think it does much but give the fan something to say in an argument.

How do you get better than the best player in the game? You don't. If people need awards to show it, then they don't fully understand the game. The only true thing that matters is championships and how a career unfolds. When Crosby is healthy - he dominates. That simple. If he gets 1 or 2 more titles - then wow. Amazing stuff.

But we might have to agree to disagree before we even go deep into this argument. You will never convince me trophies mean a thing. It's just not a big deal to me. Trophies do not tell the story. The play on the ice does.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:12 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.