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-   -   Will Jagr's legacy be hurt after he's retired? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1393369)

Montreal Shadow 04-02-2013 05:00 PM

Will Jagr's legacy be hurt after he's retired?
 
No doubt one of the best players of all time and he's got the stats to back him but I can't help but have a feeling he'll be ranked lower by many people because of what he's done in his career. He's now switched teams 3 times over the last two seasons and many view him as a gun for hire, a mercenary.

Do you guys think his current moves will hurt his ranking once he's retired? I know the question has been brought up before but I'd like fresh answers in light of his move to Boston.

King Forsberg 04-02-2013 05:13 PM

I think Jagrs legacy has only increased since returning to the NHL. many realize he could have passed Messier and behind only Gretzky in points if it weren't for his three years in the KHL.

TheDevilMadeMe 04-02-2013 05:14 PM

I honestly think that the more time passes since his disaster in Washington, that the more people will look back on Jagr's career favorably. They'll see that he had some down years in Washington, but his stats were still pretty good, and they'll forget just what a cancer he was to that team.

I also think that 5 Art Ross trophies look better and better in retrospect, as we see how tough it is now to repeat even once.

Yamaguchi* 04-02-2013 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow (Post 63049247)
No doubt one of the best players of all time and he's got the stats to back him but I can't help but have a feeling he'll be ranked lower by many people because of what he's done in his career. He's now switched teams 3 times over the last two seasons and many view him as a gun for hire, a mercenary.

Do you guys think his current moves will hurt his ranking once he's retired? I know the question has been brought up before but I'd like fresh answers in light of his move to Boston.



Jagr sure is a mercenary. But a darn-good mercenary

LeBlondeDemon10 04-02-2013 05:43 PM

He had a decent year in Philly, but this year he has been more impressive. Who cares if he is not putting up huge numbers? He can still play and is helping out the younger players.

revolverjgw 04-02-2013 06:02 PM

No. He's unusually great at his old age and he helps any team he goes to. Philly misses him. He's not even signing exorbitant contracts, he just wants to play hockey for whoever wants him and his standing with teammates seems to have improved tenfold. Everybody talks about how great he is and recently when Fleming died, I heard that story about how how when Fleming was unfairly fired during a game, Jagr refused to continue playing. This the supposed "coach killer". He's all character now, his Washington years being proportionally less significant blemishes on his career.

Staying with one team is overrated. Sakic was ready and willing to jump ship to New York until he got the big bucks. He's no different than Jagr, except for circumstances.

God DAMN it I hate today's trade

Leafs87 04-02-2013 06:09 PM

I don't know how much say he had in this trade. plus at 41 most stars jump of sinking ships before the playoffs

Dennis Bonvie 04-02-2013 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 63050671)
I honestly think that the more time passes since his disaster in Washington, that the more people will look back on Jagr's career favorably. They'll see that he had some down years in Washington, but his stats were still pretty good, and they'll forget just what a cancer he was to that team.

I also think that 5 Art Ross trophies look better and better in retrospect, as we see how tough it is now to repeat even once.

Excellent post. Right on the money.

iamjs 04-02-2013 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow (Post 63049247)
No doubt one of the best players of all time and he's got the stats to back him but I can't help but have a feeling he'll be ranked lower by many people because of what he's done in his career. He's now switched teams 3 times over the last two seasons and many view him as a gun for hire, a mercenary.

Do you guys think his current moves will hurt his ranking once he's retired? I know the question has been brought up before but I'd like fresh answers in light of his move to Boston.

I'm sure Paul Coffey's career is looked upon differently because he played for 9 teams, including 4 teams in his final 4 seasons.

He might have the rep as a hired gun over his last few seasons, but if that's the worst thing people are saying, then I think he'll be ok. ;)

FakeKidPoker* 04-02-2013 06:40 PM

Was Hull's legacy for jumping ship to Winnipeg? Still looked upon as a top 5-6 player.

Gretzky played for 4 teams, Coffey played for NINE, Francis 4, Messier 3, Chelios 3, etc..

Ishdul 04-02-2013 07:02 PM

I always think this thing is pretty overblown, especially as it relates to guys trying to stick in the league at the end of the career. It's a pretty common occurance in all sports.

SillyRabbit 04-02-2013 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingForsberg (Post 63050637)
I think Jagrs legacy has only increased since returning to the NHL. many realize he could have passed Messier and behind only Gretzky in points if it weren't for his three years in the KHL.

This.

CookieCrumbs* 04-02-2013 07:30 PM

I think it does a bit, but that's just me. Being a team ***** is a bad look.

Darth Yoda 04-02-2013 07:31 PM

I dont think his legacy for being a loyal player ever has been very high.

Canadiens1958 04-02-2013 08:33 PM

John Bucyk
 
Post age 35 few contributed at a team level like John Bucyk did:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...bucykjo01.html

Big Phil 04-02-2013 08:50 PM

The first name that came to mind here was Paul Coffey. Still remembered for his great years on Edmonton and Pittsburgh and to a lesser extent Detroit. Rarely anyone holds against him the fact that after 1996 he was a journeyman.

livewell68 04-02-2013 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Yoda (Post 63067517)
I dont think his legacy for being a loyal player ever has been very high.

Which is largely in part due to the media. He was a great team player in New York, Philadelphia and Dallas this season. For the first 10 seasons of his career in Pittsburgh, he was a great team player as well. The media though, right or wrong tried to tarnish his legacy by overhyping his down season in 2000-01 (where he still won his 5th Art Ross trophy) as well as his 2 1/2 seasons with Washington. His career was basically 18 great seasons (in terms of team play) mixed in with 3 1/2 lower highlight seasons.

quoipourquoi 04-02-2013 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Phil (Post 63079717)
The first name that came to mind here was Paul Coffey. Still remembered for his great years on Edmonton and Pittsburgh and to a lesser extent Detroit. Rarely anyone holds against him the fact that after 1996 he was a journeyman.

I must be talking to the wrong people, because people are constantly bad-mouthing Paul Coffey, and I don't understand why.

MXD 04-02-2013 09:42 PM

Probably dropping him of 15 places in the next forward ranking, didn't signed/played for the right teams.

Jk. He's 40, and it's not like he asked for a trade.

Epsilon 04-02-2013 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow (Post 63049247)
No doubt one of the best players of all time and he's got the stats to back him but I can't help but have a feeling he'll be ranked lower by many people because of what he's done in his career. He's now switched teams 3 times over the last two seasons and many view him as a gun for hire, a mercenary.

Do you guys think his current moves will hurt his ranking once he's retired? I know the question has been brought up before but I'd like fresh answers in light of his move to Boston.

He was traded by a team that has decided they are not in a good position to make the playoffs and are dumping veterans for young players and draft picks. What was he supposed to do, invoke his non-existent No Trade Clause?

Montreal Shadow 04-03-2013 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Phil (Post 63079717)
The first name that came to mind here was Paul Coffey. Still remembered for his great years on Edmonton and Pittsburgh and to a lesser extent Detroit. Rarely anyone holds against him the fact that after 1996 he was a journeyman.

Actually, many people I know do hold it against him. Even then, Paul Coffey did not build himself a reputation a la Jagr. I see a lot of people complaining about Jagr, saying he's a selfish player and not a team guy, only out for the money. Maybe Paul Coffey was viewed in the same light back then and after it was all said and done, people forgot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epsilon (Post 63098287)
He was traded by a team that has decided they are not in a good position to make the playoffs and are dumping veterans for young players and draft picks. What was he supposed to do, invoke his non-existent No Trade Clause?

I'm more specifically talking about him bolting out to the KHL, coming back to play for Philly and then leaving for Dallas. Still, I'm simply asking, I personally don't hold it against him but I know others will and I wonder how much of an impact if at all, it's going to have on his all-time rank.

Crease 04-03-2013 08:25 AM

Playing for the same team your entire career helps your legacy, but bouncing around at the end doesn't really hurt it.

Sentinel 04-03-2013 09:52 AM

I hope not. He is a demigod.

Colorado Avalanche 04-03-2013 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingForsberg (Post 63050637)
I think Jagrs legacy has only increased since returning to the NHL. many realize he could have passed Messier and behind only Gretzky in points if it weren't for his three years in the KHL.

Totally agree. I respect Jagr more than ever before. I didn't even like Jagr before, but now I just feel like he truly likes the game and is still playing at very high level. I respect him for that.

vadim sharifijanov 04-03-2013 11:13 AM

off topic, but just heard this on the trade deadline coverage on sportsnet (panel with pat quinn, mike keenan, neil smith, and brian lawton)--

quinn says he was going to take jagr in the 1990 draft but jagr's agent lied and said he wasn't going to come over, so he takes nedved instead. that agent, quinn suggests, "directed a few guys to pittsburgh," whatever that actually means.

now that's an interesting what if. i think jagr is a superstar easily no matter what happens, but i also suspect he doesn't develop into the near-generational offensive force that he was without learning from and watching mario in those early years. and don't forget that bryan trottier took jagr under his wing that first year too (at the time, trots was sixth all-time in scoring which we kind of forget sometimes). smart agent?


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