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-   -   How to prevent GMs from mortgaging the future? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1395737)

Monarchist 04-04-2013 02:53 PM

How to prevent GMs from mortgaging the future?
 
How is it possible to have GMs do what's best for the team in the long term when they know they might not be around too long? How is it possible to prevent them from making desperate gambles to make the playoffs when they are in the last year of their contract?

veedubn1 04-04-2013 02:55 PM

Fire them.

/thread

allan5oh 04-04-2013 02:57 PM

It starts at the ownership level. Look at what the Jets are doing. Nothing but long term trades/signings. It's usually ownership that pushes management to "win now".

bleedblue1223 04-04-2013 02:59 PM

Ownership. You need an ownership that supports a 5 year type plan.

Chandrashekhar Limit 04-04-2013 03:23 PM

Don't hire an idiot GM.

madmike77 04-04-2013 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarchist (Post 63290031)
How is it possible to have GMs do what's best for the team in the long term when they know they might not be around too long? How is it possible to prevent them from making desperate gambles to make the playoffs when they are in the last year of their contract?

In the end it's ownership.

What Feaster did this year certainly wasn't to preserve his job. Ownership obviously told him to blow things up and he did.

The Angry Teatowel 04-04-2013 03:24 PM

Where's the fun in that?

DoubleDose86 04-04-2013 11:42 PM

There's also the fact that say the mortgage the future, and it fails, they end up fired. And so they get tried again somewhere else.

Well when it happens again, do you think other teams will give them a chance?

Meanwhile the GM's who get fired, but kept trying to work the best for the team, people look back and recognize them for their work

Billy Mays Here 04-05-2013 12:01 AM

I don't know, ask Jay Feaster.

JS19 04-05-2013 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarchist (Post 63290031)
How is it possible to have GMs do what's best for the team in the long term when they know they might not be around too long? How is it possible to prevent them from making desperate gambles to make the playoffs when they are in the last year of their contract?

Start by banning trade deadline :sarcasm:

Ashasx 04-05-2013 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan (Post 63342551)
I don't know, ask Jay Feaster.

Yeah.. Like that one time he mortgaged the future... That I can't recall...

Halpysback 04-05-2013 12:23 AM

fire them while they're at the top of the hill.

Lombardi should have been fired last june, for example. Now he's doing panic moves like the Regehr, Ellerby and Loktionov trades to save his ass

Dick Whitman 04-05-2013 12:40 AM

Also, owners generally approve all trades. If they don't like the direction the team is taking, they can do something about it.

With all the talk of confirmed no deals in that other thread, I wonder how many trades have been veto'ed by ownership in the past few years.

garmonbozia 04-05-2013 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx (Post 63343699)
Yeah.. Like that one time he mortgaged the future... That I can't recall...

He wasn't adverse to doing it in Tampa;

Svitov (a 3rd overall pick) for Sydor
4th overall (Pitkanen) for Fedotenko
16th overall+ for Shane Obrien
31st overall (Markstrom) to reacquire Gratton

That half those trades were instrumental in winning the cup doesn't mean they don't fit the bill of mortgaging the future.

Also, letting him make draft picks was basically mortgaging the future as well...just in a more roundabout and self destructive manner.


As for the original topic, I think the NFL has solved this issue with the combination of a trade deadline in the first half of its season and non-guaranteed contracts. Other than the Herschel Walker trade and Ditka trading a whole draft for Ricky Williams nobody digs holes they can't get out of relatively quickly.

Fallschirmyager 04-05-2013 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garmonbozia (Post 63347679)
He wasn't adverse to doing it in Tampa;

Svitov (a 3rd overall pick) for Sydor
4th overall (Pitkanen) for Fedotenko
16th overall+ for Shane Obrien
31st overall (Markstrom) to reacquire Gratton

That half those trades were instrumental in winning the cup doesn't mean they don't fit the bill of mortgaging the future.

Also, letting him make draft picks was basically mortgaging the future as well...just in a more roundabout and self destructive manner.


As for the original topic, I think the NFL has solved this issue with the combination of a trade deadline in the first half of its season and non-guaranteed contracts. Other than the Herschel Walker trade and Ditka trading a whole draft for Ricky Williams nobody digs holes they can't get out of relatively quickly.

That's the thing. If you "mortgage the future" and win a cup you're a genius. If you mess it up and don't you're an idiot. I'd suspect most owners understand they aren't hockey GMs and stay out of it for the most part, coughleonisisjagrcough, but I'd also suspect if the GM wants to trade certain players he needs ownership ok. The obvious examples being Ovechkin, Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos etc etc.

pld459666 04-05-2013 07:47 AM

lets just stop playing the game shall we?

The goal, ultimate goal for any team is to win the Stanley Cup. If you can win multiple cups while constructing your team, you do it. If the moves that you make allow you to win just ONE cup, then that's fine as well.

The goal for GM's is not to worry so much about the future. And by Future, I am talking 5+ years.

Most "future mortgaging" that goes on allows teams to retain a window of competitiveness of at least 2-3 years.

Lets let teams manage the way they want to manage. Stop trying to have each team run operations the same way.

I hope that what you insinuate NEVER happens.

the league would be so boring if teams never gambled on trying to do their ******* jobs.

UnderratedBrooks44 04-05-2013 08:02 AM

GM's making ridiculous trades to save their job? I honestly didn't think this was ever a problem. Is it??

Colorado Avalanche 04-05-2013 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pld459666 (Post 63350489)
lets just stop playing the game shall we?

The goal, ultimate goal for any team is to win the Stanley Cup. If you can win multiple cups while constructing your team, you do it. If the moves that you make allow you to win just ONE cup, then that's fine as well.

The goal for GM's is not to worry so much about the future. And by Future, I am talking 5+ years.

Most "future mortgaging" that goes on allows teams to retain a window of competitiveness of at least 2-3 years.

Lets let teams manage the way they want to manage. Stop trying to have each team run operations the same way.

I hope that what you insinuate NEVER happens.

the league would be so boring if teams never gambled on trying to do their ******* jobs.

Maybe that's the case for New York Rangers GM, but some others may have to rebuild from nothing and think 5+ years forward.

Trafalgar Law 04-05-2013 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallschirmyager (Post 63350287)
That's the thing. If you "mortgage the future" and win a cup you're a genius. If you mess it up and don't you're an idiot. I'd suspect most owners understand they aren't hockey GMs and stay out of it for the most part, coughleonisisjagrcough, but I'd also suspect if the GM wants to trade certain players he needs ownership ok. The obvious examples being Ovechkin, Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos etc etc.

You really think Ruslan Fedotenko made a big difference to Tampa winning the cup? Yes, he scored the game winning goal, but did nothing else the other 20 or so games in the playoffs.

danishh 04-05-2013 08:54 AM

the main way would probably be a system like in baseball, where teams cannot trade draft picks or recently drafted players (i forget how long they have to wait to trade a newly drafted player).

baseball fans complain about it all the time, but the limitation really does ensure that everyone has a pretty steady prospect pipeline. From a PA point of view, it makes free agents more valuable (and therefore raises their salaries).

Krishna 04-05-2013 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Whitman (Post 63344483)
Also, owners generally approve all trades. If they don't like the direction the team is taking, they can do something about it.

With all the talk of confirmed no deals in that other thread, I wonder how many trades have been veto'ed by ownership in the past few years.

I also wonder about deals that get forced by ownership on the GMs

colchar 04-05-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarchist (Post 63290031)
How is it possible to have GMs do what's best for the team in the long term when they know they might not be around too long? How is it possible to prevent them from making desperate gambles to make the playoffs when they are in the last year of their contract?


It isn't possible.

LickTheEnvelope 04-05-2013 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmike77 (Post 63291945)
In the end it's ownership.

What Feaster did this year certainly wasn't to preserve his job. Ownership obviously told him to blow things up and he did.

After they signed Wideman, Hudler, Cervenka etc.

CreeksideStrangler 04-05-2013 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pld459666 (Post 63350489)
lets just stop playing the game shall we?

The goal, ultimate goal for any team is to win the Stanley Cup. If you can win multiple cups while constructing your team, you do it. If the moves that you make allow you to win just ONE cup, then that's fine as well.

The goal for GM's is not to worry so much about the future. And by Future, I am talking 5+ years.

Most "future mortgaging" that goes on allows teams to retain a window of competitiveness of at least 2-3 years.

Lets let teams manage the way they want to manage. Stop trying to have each team run operations the same way.

I hope that what you insinuate NEVER happens.

the league would be so boring if teams never gambled on trying to do their ******* jobs.

Agreed

Sarcastic 04-05-2013 09:50 AM

Write a petition to your local GM.


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