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-   -   Do you want Rolston to return next year? (quantification purposes) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1398637)

jBuds 04-07-2013 11:24 PM

Do you want Rolston to return next year? (quantification purposes)
 
We're about 2/3 of the way through Rolston's campaign as interim head coach: 22GP, 9GR. By my count, the team is 10-7-5 under RonRon. I'd like to attempt to quantify if there is a growing number of people who wish for him to return without the interim tag next season. If you don't mind, please vote in the poll above.

A few quick observations, feel free to add, agree, disagree, etc...

Notes on this team, this year:

- D has tightened up for the better, from the defensemen to the forwards

- effort level seems to have increased

- PP and PK still suck

- Offense is inconsistent (may not be a reflection on him)

- 6-2-2 over the last ten

- has sounded....defeated?...in a postgame presser or two...

- promoted Ott to Alternate captain

- has benched numerous guys at various times for what he has deemed inadequate performance


Notions to keep in mind, regarding forward vision:

- preexisting rapport with a number of guys on this roster from earlier in Rochester

- we're expected to ice a relatively young team, which is (from all descriptions and indications) right in Rolston's bailiwick

- in the midst of a rebuild, and obviously, Rolston has no prior NHL Head Coaching experience, and certainly no experience with rebuilding the look, play, image, brand, etc. of a pro club


Do you want him to return next year?

MARCUS FOLlGNO PHD 04-07-2013 11:25 PM

If he gets a playoff series win out of them, sure

If there is any better option, I want them to take it no matter what. I think there are certain coaches that fit that category.

ZZamboni 04-07-2013 11:28 PM

He seems like a good coach .... For the AHL. So no.

jBuds 04-07-2013 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason (Post 63538071)
If he gets a playoff series win out of them, sure

If there is any better option, I want them to take it no matter what. I think there are certain coaches that fit that category.

I'm with you, but I'm having a tough time identifying what sort of direction I'd like them to go in.

Personally, I voted "no" regardless of the final 9. Which is admittedly a bit hypocritical.

Beginning of the year, I was all about the "up and comer" who would be the Anti-Ruff. Rolston is, basically.... an anti-Ruff up and comer.

But now, full rebuild, fresh start...a big part of me wants a more experienced guy, well respected, with some sort of track record of successfully handling the task of rebuilding a team as we're attempting to do.

Problem is, I'm without a candidate list that fits the bill at this time.

I'd ask "who you had in mind," but there's already a thread for the 'future coach' discussion, and I'm really just trying to get a number on those who do/don't wish to see RR back

buffalowing88 04-07-2013 11:30 PM

I say keep him. He definitely has been a bit "defeated" in some bits lately but I think he was thrown in the absolute worst situation a coach can ask for in the middle of a huge transition between one era and another. He is familiar with the current group coming up and has impressed me by benching guys. He will gain a voice in the lockerroom over time, there are just too many dynamics he has no control over currently for that to take place 100 percent. By next season a lot of the lingering questions will be answered and that should be his opportunity to show whether he can handle the job or not.

Push Dr Tracksuit 04-07-2013 11:31 PM

I figure the next 2 years will be lost years as the young players mature in NHLers. So really it doesn't matter to me. Darcy needs his new coach to work out much more than I do. Just don't chuck basketballs at the young guys and call um fairys. Bad form.

matthew94 04-07-2013 11:32 PM

I think getting this team into the playoffs would be quite an impressive achievement (even as it would disappoint a lot of people already excited for the draft). I can't really imagine Darcy searching elsewhere if they make it.

Beerz 04-07-2013 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imlach a cup (Post 63538323)
I figure the next 2 years will be lost years as the young players mature in NHLers. So really it doesn't matter to me. Darcy needs his new coach to work out much more than I do. Just don't chuck basketballs at the young guys and call um fairys. Bad form.

:laugh::laugh:

Beerz 04-07-2013 11:36 PM

I think they need to make a big splash with this....

I'm thinking Torts but I don't see him wanting to come to Buffalo no matter how much money Pegula throws at him...plus I don't see him working very well with the youngsters.

I really want Tippett but not sure what his contract status is...or Hitchcock ... I want a defensive genius.

Id be fine with Roy just because of the name.

Otherwise go with the Eakins guy.

jBuds 04-07-2013 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew94 (Post 63538349)
I think getting this team into the playoffs would be quite an impressive achievement (even as it would disappoint a lot of people already excited for the draft). I can't really imagine Darcy searching elsewhere if they make it.

This is a safe guess. Though I'd love to warn anyone who thinks playoffs are within reach that... They're not :laugh:

Rasmus Reichel 04-07-2013 11:52 PM

He's been pretty good but ask me in 9 games

MARCUS FOLlGNO PHD 04-07-2013 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 63538523)
This is a safe guess. Though I'd love to warn anyone who thinks playoffs are within reach that... They're not :laugh:

Not next year, imo

Djp 04-08-2013 12:30 AM

I want a thorough search done where both Roy and Eakins are interviewed along with some quality assistance on some teams interviewed.

Rolston is a Darcy clone.

Djp 04-08-2013 12:39 AM

this teams has underperformed all year.

I'd like an outsider to come in.

They are 16-17-6 38 pts

In 12 of those 17 loses they were down by 1 goal at some time in the third. Had they good PP/PK some of those games could have been 1 goal wins or at least getting points.

There have been 6 games where they had a 3rd period lead only to come away with 0/1 pts.

I haven't looked at how many games they didnt come away with 2 pts when they had a 2 goal lead at anytime in the game.

Its not much to say this team could have easily gone something like 22-13 -4 48 pts

jBuds 04-08-2013 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djp (Post 63540585)
this teams has underperformed all year.

I'd like an outsider to come in.

They are 16-17-6 38 pts

In 12 of those 17 loses they were down by 1 goal at some time in the third. Had they good PP/PK some of those games could have been 1 goal wins or at least getting points.

There have been 6 games where they had a 3rd period lead only to come away with 0/1 pts.

I haven't looked at how many games they didnt come away with 2 pts when they had a 2 goal lead at anytime in the game.

Its not much to say this team could have easily gone something like 22-13 -4 48 pts

"If we didn't have Gerbe, we'd have 5 more wins" :sarcasm:

sjci 04-08-2013 12:50 AM

I'm not opposed to it, but I would definitely want them to interview/talk to Roy and Eakins. There's no question Rolston has preformed well since taking over. There were definitely rough stretches and we are definitely riding a high point at the moment. So I want to wait till the final 9 games are played to see how we end up.

Eakins and Roy are both good with the younger players. They both bring recognition, as Roy is Patrick Roy, and Eakins has been the hottest HC candidate for the past year/year and a half. Rolston brings his own as well, being a great USA Junior coach. Coaching some of the top USA players from 2004-2011 (JVR, Jack Johnson, Fowler, Colin Wilson, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Kane, Eric Johnson)

I'm starting to warm to the idea, but let's see how the season ends before we do anything crazy. Like I said, we're on a hot streak right now, I'm sure everyone would be singing a different tune if he were to go 2-7 in the final 9 games.

jBuds 04-08-2013 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjci (Post 63540901)
I'm not opposed to it, but I would definitely want them to interview/talk to Roy and Eakins. There's no question Rolston has preformed well since taking over. There were definitely rough stretches and we are definitely riding a high point at the moment. So I want to wait till the final 9 games are played to see how we end up.

Eakins and Roy are both good with the younger players. They both bring recognition, as Roy is Patrick Roy, and Eakins has been the hottest HC candidate for the past year/year and a half. Rolston brings his own as well, being a great USA Junior coach. Coaching some of the top USA players from 2004-2011 (JVR, Jack Johnson, Fowler, Colin Wilson, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Kane, Eric Johnson)

I'm starting to warm to the idea, but let's see how the season ends before we do anything crazy. Like I said, we're on a hot streak right now, I'm sure everyone would be singing a different tune if he were to go 2-7 in the final 9 games.

Roy has the pedigree of being an ex player that RR doesn't have.

But I might actually want some NHL head coaching experience for this movement :dunno:

I can say, though, that I don't care for RonRon to return.

Maddening Monotone

jBuds 04-08-2013 12:57 AM

I have to ask: what will 9 more games tell you that you don't already know about Rolston?

Rather, why would a run to eighth justify the notion that he is right for this rebuild?

rabi 04-08-2013 12:57 AM

I want Roy...someone from outside the organization...

jfb392 04-08-2013 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 63541061)
Roy has the pedigree of being an ex player that RR doesn't have.

But I might actually want some NHL head coaching experience for this movement :dunno:

I can say, though, that I don't care for RonRon to return.

Maddening Monotone

There's no such "pedigree" for ex-NHL'ers.
In fact, the less NHL games played, the more successful they are, it seems.
I believe there was an article detailing these findings, but all I can find is this, which is raw data.
It does, however, note that non-NHL'ers are more successful.

And Roy is nothing more than a circus ringmaster.

jBuds 04-08-2013 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfb392 (Post 63541583)
There's no such "pedigree" for ex-NHL'ers.
In fact, the less NHL games played, the more successful they are, it seems.
I believe there was an article detailing these findings, but all I can find is this, which is raw data.
It does, however, note that non-NHL'ers are more successful.

And Roy is nothing more than a circus ringmaster.

I meant the comment in the sense of RR not having any NHL experience to lean on, player or coach. That his brother was a pro means nothing to me.

Push Dr Tracksuit 04-08-2013 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 63541107)
I have to ask: what will 9 more games tell you that you don't already know about Rolston?

Rather, why would a run to eighth justify the notion that he is right for this rebuild?

Nothing, but there isn't an answer that says "well this turd has been somewhat less stinky since Rollie took over so if he ends up on the Sabres short list this summer I won't release a hoard of angry honey badgers in Darcy's hottub." cause that's really what I'm thinking. I don't trust Darcy anymore and he desperately needs the next coach to work, if he doesn't we get a new GM and coach. If he does then we go from there. What will 9 games tell me? Nothing I'm a college student who played some D in high school and have 0 qualifications to identify a head coach, but 9-3 over our last 12 will at least give me something positive to cling to when Darcy tells us his clone will be coaching the team next season.

jfb392 04-08-2013 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 63541905)
I meant the comment in the sense of RR not having any NHL experience to lean on, player or coach. That his brother was a pro means nothing to me.

Not sure what you're trying to say, but I'm saying that having NHL experience doesn't seem to matter.
Roy's 1200 something professional games and Cup rings don't make him a better coach than Rolston and his seven ECHL games.

He, just like Rolston previously, benefits from an uneven playing field.

jBuds 04-08-2013 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfb392 (Post 63542347)
Not sure what you're trying to say, but I'm saying that having NHL experience doesn't seem to matter.
Roy's 1200 something professional games and Cup rings don't make him a better coach than Rolston and his seven ECHL games.

He, just like Rolston previously, benefits from an uneven playing field.

I don't agree, in the case of Rolston particularly.

Strategically, maybe, maybe not. But I don't agree that they're at the same level from the perspective of knowing the professional game, because Rolston has no prior experience of it himself.

I'm saying that Rolston is at a disadvantage from having zero NHL experience whatsoever. Nothing in the way of Roy being a good coach.

Having been in the league may not be a recipe for head coaching success, but having NHL experience in some form, even as a player, puts you a step ahead (small, medium, large, whatever) of someone with absolutely none like Rolston. You can argue about actual coaching tactics, strategy, etc., but when you have absolute zero in the way of an NHL background, and a minimal playing career professionally, you're behind in a sense.

Push Dr Tracksuit 04-08-2013 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 63542503)
I don't agree, in the case of Rolston particularly.

Strategically, maybe, maybe not. But I don't agree that they're at the same level from the perspective of knowing the professional game, because Rolston has no prior experience of it himself.

I'm saying that Rolston is at a disadvantage from having zero NHL experience whatsoever. Nothing in the way of Roy being a good coach.

Having been in the league may not be a recipe for head coaching success, but having NHL experience in some form, even as a player, puts you a step ahead (small, medium, large, whatever) of someone with absolutely none like Rolston. You can argue about actual coaching tactics, strategy, etc., but when you have absolute zero in the way of an NHL background, and a minimal playing career professionally, you're behind in a sense.

I can't agree with that. If NHL experience provides minimal correlation to NHL coaching success then saying he is at a disadvantage is to claim the opposite, you are less likely to succeed without it. It's a 2 way street if it goes one way then the same applies in reverse. If NHL experience doesn't increase your odds of success then not having it can't hurt your chances because the statistics say it's a wash. Personally I like international experience because you are much more likely to come across a large variety of systems ie. It's much less homogenized, the volatile nature of rosters and coaches means the systems you see one season can be totally overhauled for the next year. I'm much more interested in how a coach applies his players in game. If its Roy, Eakins, or Rolston you are going to face the same issues, none of them are experienced in controlling, motivating and applying multi-million dollar players without the specter of a bigger league to move to and in my opinion motivating a group of people who have everything is the hardest part of the job.

I guess you'd need to set down what a coach would gain from pro experience. It's not exposure to system play, future NHL coaches have seen most of what's out there. It's not player usage, you have to juggle players and matchups at every elite level of hockey. It's not travel or logistics, if anything team logistics are easier with NHL resources. The only benefit is experiencing the egos of an NHL lockerroom, but even Roy probably never had to know how to deal with an egotistical netminder or an 8 million dollar center. He'd just win and break his sticks. Would specifically do think pro experience would be adding to Rolston's resume if you are finding it deficient ATM?


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