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-   -   Speculation: The Roster Building Thread: Titles May Not Reflect Actual Discussion (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1399401)

drinking bleach irl 04-08-2013 10:12 PM

The Roster Building Thread: Titles May Not Reflect Actual Discussion
 
UPDATE 4/14
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason (Post 63958673)
I think it's safe to say the tank is in the tank. What do we do looking forward, as there's little chance of an immediate impact player for the rebuild slipping to #10 range?






I think we might have use for a thread where we exorcise our far-fetched proposals and FA acquisition plans for next year, similar to last year's pie-in-the-sky thread rather than the realistic acquisition thread. At the very least, it might be an entertaining distraction when we're cursing the team for either winning or losing.

Note: far-fetched does not mean Stafford for Brown, Miller for Ovie, etc.

Build 'em up.

2012-13 Closing Roster

http://www.capgeek.com/sabres/

Cap Calculator

http://www.capgeek.com/sabres/cap-calculator/

drinking bleach irl 04-08-2013 10:12 PM

At the Draft:

Miller to the Islanders for the negotiation rights to Mark Streit and a conditional 1st round pick (2014 or 2015), conditional 3rd round pick (2014)

Why the Sabres do it:
With the acquisition of Hackett and the remaining presence of Enroth, they have the goaltending of the future. A signed Streit hopefully bolsters the defense enough that the goaltending dropoff is outweighed by the PP benefits. ~Veteran Leadership~. If they fail to sign Streit, the Sabres choose which 1st to take by trade deadline 2014. Sabres retain 15% of his salary.

Why the Isles do it:
Primarily, negotiations with Streit don't improve. Thomas is a nutcase and isn't getting any younger. Nabakov is old too. Miller still has a few good years left in him, and Brooklyn's certainly more attractive for a man of his nature (not to mention his wife) than either Buffalo or Nassau. NYI's young talent is coming of age and Miller could be part of that. Presumably they make the deal with the expectation they don't have to give up the 1st.

E: Why does Miller waive?
Isles have a better chance at the playoffs, allure of NYC, Taveres begs him.

Stafford, Sabres 1st 2013 (appx 10-13) to the Flyers for 2013 1st (appx 5-6)

Why the Sabres do it:
Stafford's welcome has worn out regardless of his ability. The writing is on the wall vis-a-vis the Burmistrov offer. At 5 or 6 the team can still select Monahan/Lindholm and further the rebuild more than the average 10-13 guy.

Why the Flyers do it:
30 goal scorers don't grow on trees, and he's relatively affordable, assuming Sabres retain 10% of his salary and Philly makes cuts/moves re: Briere or Bryz. Holmgren's aggressive GMing might lead him to take a lower grade of prospect and a skilled mid-age player in effort to get back to the playoffs while the older D are still viable options.


Free Agency:

Tyler Bozak for $4.5m x 4 years

Why the Sabres do it:
Bozak gives them a capable 2-way center who excels at faceoffs. He'll bridge the gap to Girgensons' and Larsson's early prime years while affording the Sabres the option of re-signing or extending him should things not work out.

Why Bozak does it:
Dat cash. It's overpayment, clear and simple. But it's an organizational need and it's not like Pegula's hurting for cash. Nor will the Sabres be really hurting for cap space any time soon with the upcoming reliance on ELC and second contract players. A position as #2C on a team that should be, worst case scenario, a reasonable playoff contender by 2014-15. Stays in a region that he's familiar with. He'll still have the opportunity to cash in again at 31 should he so choose.


Mark Streit for $6.0m x 2 years, NMC

Why the Sabres do it:
He's a great player. He'd upgrade the PP, shore up some defensive issues, and altogether improve the depth chart dramatically. With a short term there's little risk and could be moved to a contender should the team not contend for the playoffs. He's not here long enough to really logjam the developing defensemen in Rochester/junior.

Why Streit does it:
Again, dat cash. Dat NMC. Dat Sabres brand that Pegula is so desperately trying to develop. He followed the money to a NYI team in a worse position than the Sabres', let's assume Darth can convince him to do it again.



Re-Sign
Hodgson for $3.0m x 2
Enroth/Hackett for $1.0m x 2
Flynn for $1.25m x 3
Weber for $1.5m x 2
Tropp for $750k x 1


Bury/Call-up
Gerbe to Rochester
Armia to Buffalo
Grigorenko to Buffalo
Larsson to Buffalo


2013-14 Lineup

Vanek - Hodgson - Ott
Leino - Bozak - Larsson
Armia - Ennis/Grigorenko - Grigorenko/Ennis
Foligno - Porter - Kaleta
Flynn

Myers - Sekera
Ehrhoff - Streit
Weber - Pysyk

Hackett/Enroth


A primary scoring line, a two-way line, an easy-minutes/offensive development line, and a grinding line. A 1A/1B goaltending battle.





CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Thomas Vanek ($7.143m) / Cody Hodgson ($3.000m) / Steve Ott ($2.950m)
Ville Leino ($4.500m) / Tyler Bozak ($4.500m) / Johan Larsson ($0.870m)
Joel Armia ($1.275m) / Tyler Ennis ($2.813m) / Mikhail Grigorenko ($1.775m)
Marcus Foligno ($0.900m) / Kevin Porter ($0.538m) / Patrick Kaleta ($1.250m)
Brian Flynn ($1.250m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Tyler Myers ($5.500m) / Andrej Sekera ($2.750m)
Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m) / Mark Streit ($6.000m)
Mike Weber ($1.500m) / Mark Pysyk ($0.870m)
GOALTENDERS
Matthew Hackett ($1.000m)
Jhonas Enroth ($1.000m)
OTHER
Buried: Cody McCormick ($0.275m)
Buried: Nathan Gerbe ($0.525m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (3.316% of upper limit)
Jason Pominville ($0.795m—0.2%) Ryan Miller ($0.938m—15.0%) Drew Stafford ($0.400m—10.0%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $58,315,357; BONUSES: $1,310,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $7,294,643

Der Jaeger 04-08-2013 10:23 PM

That's pretty good, I'd just go with something more drastic.

I'm hoping Chicago gets beat in the playoffs due to bad goaltending, so Buffalo can trade Miller there. I'd try for Crawford, McNeill, and Chicago's 1st.

I'm also thinking through a Philly-Buffalo trade that centered on Vanek for Couturier and Coburn. Buffalo adds, but that's get Buffalo's shutdown center and a defensive partner for Myers.

I'm not a big believer in Grigorenko, and I'd still move him and Sekera for O'Reilly at the 2014 trade deadline.

Ott - Hodgson - Ennis
Foligno - Couturier - Leino
Larsson - O'Reilly - Flynn
Gerbe - Porter - Kaleta
Scott

Coburn - Myers
Ehrhoff - UFA
Weber - Pysyk

Crawford
Enroth

Add in Girgensons, Armia, Hackett, McCabe, McNabb, and 2013 rookies when they're ready.

drinking bleach irl 04-08-2013 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Jaeger (Post 63596133)
That's pretty good, I'd just go with something more drastic.

I'm hoping Chicago gets beat in the playoffs due to bad goaltending, so Buffalo can trade Miller there. I'd try for Crawford, McNeill, and Chicago's 1st.

I can dig that.

Quote:

I'm also thinking through a Philly-Buffalo trade that centered on Vanek for Couturier and Coburn. Buffalo adds, but that's get Buffalo's shutdown center and a defensive partner for Myers.
I can dig that too, I suppose. I'd rather not move Vanek yet, but hey.

Quote:

I'm not a big believer in Grigorenko, and I'd still move him and Sekera for O'Reilly at the 2014 trade deadline.
I think this would be a bigger mistake for the loss of Sekera than anything else. Regardless of value, he's arguably the team's best defenseman and without him they'd be even worse :cry:.

ZZamboni 04-08-2013 10:36 PM

I stopped at Drew Stafford to Philly.. I'll read the rest in a minute.

Do all or most of the GM's in the league (in this case Philly) view Stafford as a "30 goal scorer" or a one time 30 goal scorer? I'm not dumping on him, but I honestly have a hard time thinking GM's look at his stats, look at his play and think he IS a 30 goal scorer.

Vanek, now Vanek IS a 30 goal scorer in my opinion. He is good for reaching 30 goals (maybe more) every single season. And if he doesn't it must be for a damn good reason like an injury.

I just don't see that in Stafford. I feel more comfortable saying he IS a 20 goal scorer. Could be more, could be less.

Beyond the linemates, TOI etc .... It is what is it.


Just my O.

drinking bleach irl 04-08-2013 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZamboni (Post 63597247)
Do all or most of the GM's in the league (in this case Philly) view Stafford as a "30 goal scorer" or a one time 30 goal scorer? I'm not dumping on him, but I honestly have a hard time thinking GM's look at his stats, look at his play and think he IS a 30 goal scorer.

I just don't see that in Stafford. I feel more comfortable saying he IS a 20 goal scorer. Could be more, could be less.

He's scored thirty goals. He is a thirty goal scorer. By no means is he expected to pop 30 in every year but he's already done it. To be fair, since 10-11 he's scored at a 25.7 goals per 82 games pace. Perhaps 25 goal scorer is more appropriate a title.

I agree with you that the connotation of that phrase is interpreted in different ways around here. I just meant that he's proven he can do it.

ZZamboni 04-08-2013 10:43 PM

I like the thoughts so far .... I know one thing, if nothing else, Hackett and Enroth as a tandem scare the H E double hockey sticks out of me :biglaugh:

TheyAreGoodScaryGood 04-08-2013 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason (Post 63597741)
He's scored thirty goals. He is a thirty goal scorer. By no means is he expected to pop 30 in every year but he's already done it. To be fair, since 10-11 he's scored at a 25.7 goals per 82 games pace. Perhaps 25 goal scorer is more appropriate a title.

I agree with you that the connotation of that phrase is interpreted in different ways around here. I just meant that he's proven he can do it.

What has he scored at the last two seasons?

Rhett4 04-08-2013 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZamboni (Post 63597247)
I stopped at Drew Stafford to Philly.. I'll read the rest in a minute.

Do all or most of the GM's in the league (in this case Philly) view Stafford as a "30 goal scorer" or a one time 30 goal scorer? I'm not dumping on him, but I honestly have a hard time thinking GM's look at his stats, look at his play and think he IS a 30 goal scorer.

Vanek, now Vanek IS a 30 goal scorer in my opinion. He is good for reaching 30 goals (maybe more) every single season. And if he doesn't it must be for a damn good reason like an injury.

I just don't see that in Stafford. I feel more comfortable saying he IS a 20 goal scorer. Could be more, could be less.

Beyond the linemates, TOI etc .... It is what is it.


Just my O.

I would think most GMs in the league see Stafford as a 20 goal guy. That's what his stats indicate, and anyone looking further into the 30-goal season would see most of them came in bunches. Teams need 20-goal guys but not at 4M a year, hence Stafford's value likely not being too fantastic.

As for the OP, I'd love to take a crack at Bozak in free agency.

New Sabres Captain 04-08-2013 10:47 PM

To Pittsburgh:
Vanek
Hodgson
Stafford
Leino
Ott
Ennis
Gerbe
Kaleta
Flynn
Foligno
Adam
Larsson
Grigorenko
Porter
Tropp
Myers
Ehrhoff
Sekera
Weber
Pysyk
McNabb
Girgensons
Armia
Miller
Hackett
Enroth

To Buffalo:
Crosby
Malkin
Neal
Kunitz
Jokinen
Sutter
Kennedy
Glass
Bennett
Jeffrey
Vitale
Martin
Orpik
Letang
Niskanen
Depres
Engelland
Bortuzzo
Fleury
Vokoun
Maatta
Pouliot

I think that should about do it. :sarcasm:

drinking bleach irl 04-08-2013 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood (Post 63597953)
What has he scored at the last two seasons?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhett4 (Post 63597957)
I would think most GMs in the league see Stafford as a 20 goal guy. That's what his stats indicate, and anyone looking further into the 30-goal season would see most of them came in bunches. Teams need 20-goal guys but not at 4M a year, hence Stafford's value likely not being too fantastic.

As for the OP, I'd love to take a crack at Bozak in free agency.

If you're going to throw out his peak year, you've got to throw out his worst too in all fairness. All that leaves you with in the past three years is his 20-30-50 year, which I'd argue is a fair value at $3.6m, which is what Philly would be taking on.

Afino 04-08-2013 10:49 PM

Why do you have to have weird thread titles for everything? What's a "Rari"?

TheyAreGoodScaryGood 04-08-2013 10:53 PM

Trades:
Hjarmarlsson+1st for Miller+2nd(STL)

Stafford+3rd+Adam for burmistrov

1st(CHI)+McNabb+Sundher for Vlasic

5th for clarksons rights

Signings:
Clarkson
Horton


Vanek-CoHo-Horton
Leino-Ennis-Clarkson
Foligno-Burmistrov-Ott
Tropp-XXX-Flynn
Kaleta

Myers-Vlasic
Sekera-Ehrhoff
Hammer-Weber
Pysyk

Enroth
Harding

EDIT: maybe sign a G in free agency too

aceface33 04-08-2013 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afino (Post 63598291)
What's a "Rari"?

Also wondering this- googled it and apparently it's a song title. I think I may be a square.

Beerz 04-08-2013 10:55 PM

I'd put the 1st and Stafford for Philly 1st right up there with Stafford for Brown and Miller for Ovie...

Not a chance in hell Philly drops that much for Drew Stafford.

drinking bleach irl 04-08-2013 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afino (Post 63598291)
Why do you have to have weird thread titles for everything?

Creativity? Personal Enjoyment?

Quote:

What's a "Rari"?
At the risk of being snide, a little effort.

drinking bleach irl 04-08-2013 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beerz (Post 63598631)
I'd put the 1st and Stafford for Philly 1st right up there with Stafford for Brown and Miller for Ovie...

Not a chance in hell Philly drops that much for Drew Stafford.

It's going to be 4 spots :laugh:. "That much" eh? Hell, add the early second this year and next if it makes you happy.

Kc232 04-08-2013 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs (Post 63598187)
To Pittsburgh:
Vanek
Hodgson
Stafford
Leino
Ott
Ennis
Gerbe
Kaleta
Flynn
Foligno
Adam
Larsson
Grigorenko
Porter
Tropp
Myers
Ehrhoff
Sekera
Weber
Pysyk
McNabb
Girgensons
Armia
Miller
Hackett
Enroth

To Buffalo:
Crosby
Malkin
Neal
Kunitz
Jokinen
Sutter
Kennedy
Glass
Bennett
Jeffrey
Vitale
Martin
Orpik
Letang
Niskanen
Depres
Engelland
Bortuzzo
Fleury
Vokoun
Maatta
Pouliot

I think that should about do it. :sarcasm:

I giggled.

Beerz 04-08-2013 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason (Post 63598733)
It's going to be 4 spots :laugh:. "That much" eh? Hell, add the early second this year and next if it makes you happy.

4 spots is a lot when you're talking pick 5 to pick 9 or 10. And just to get Drew Stafford?

Pipe dreams.

Beerz 04-08-2013 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs (Post 63598187)
To Pittsburgh:
Vanek
Hodgson
Stafford
Leino
Ott
Ennis
Gerbe
Kaleta
Flynn
Foligno
Adam
Larsson
Grigorenko
Porter
Tropp
Myers
Ehrhoff
Sekera
Weber
Pysyk
McNabb
Girgensons
Armia
Miller
Hackett
Enroth

To Buffalo:
Crosby
Malkin
Neal
Kunitz
Jokinen
Sutter
Kennedy
Glass
Bennett
Jeffrey
Vitale
Martin
Orpik
Letang
Niskanen
Depres
Engelland
Bortuzzo
Fleury
Vokoun
Maatta
Pouliot

I think that should about do it. :sarcasm:


Penguins need to throw in a first since we're giving up Steve Ott.. :sarcasm:

drinking bleach irl 04-08-2013 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beerz (Post 63599009)
4 spots is a lot when you're talking pick 5 to pick 9 or 10. And just to get Drew Stafford?

This is the problem.

"Just" Martin Erat got Forsberg, who was a top-half first less than year before. Even with the prospect's depreciation, are you saying Philly would turn down, say, 10th and 20th for 6th? I really don't think they would from a sheer value standpoint, much less organizational need in Stafford.

Stafford's value is severely underrated around here.

Beerz 04-08-2013 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason (Post 63599295)
This is the problem.

"Just" Martin Erat got Forsberg, who was a top-half first less than year before.

Stafford's value around here is severely underrated.

I don't underrate Stafford. He's worth a decent return in my book. But I can't see any team targeting him at the draft with the thinking this is going to push my team in the playoffs the following year at the risk of giving up a top 5 pick.

Erat for Forsberg was stupid on Washingtons part and just shows how desperate they are to get in the P.O.'s

drinking bleach irl 04-08-2013 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beerz (Post 63599535)
I don't underrate Stafford. He's worth a decent return in my book. But I can't see any team targeting him at the draft with the thinking this is going to push my team in the playoffs the following year at the risk of giving up a top 5 pick.

Erat for Forsberg was stupid on Washingtons part and just shows how desperate they are to get in the P.O.'s

They were on a 6-3-1 streak before the deadline and had been floating Forsberg all year. It wasn't desperation on their part, but that's neither here nor there.

And a 25 goal secondary scorer is exactly the sort of piece that a GM with unrealistic faith in his team would look at as the key to making the playoffs the following year.

Look at the Islanders trading down in 2008 from #5 to #9 for the gain of a high second and a low second. You don't think Stafford is worth at least that?

Beerz 04-08-2013 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason (Post 63599841)
They were on a 6-3-1 streak before the deadline and had been floating Forsberg all year. It wasn't desperation on their part, but that's neither here nor there.

And a 25 goal secondary scorer is exactly the sort of piece that a GM with unrealistic faith in his team would look at as the key to making the playoffs the following year.

This particular GM is going to be after Defense..and a lot of it if he wants in playoffs....not Drew Stafford.

drinking bleach irl 04-08-2013 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beerz (Post 63600085)
This particular GM is going to be after Defense..and a lot of it if he wants in playoffs....not Drew Stafford.

Acquiring Stafford at no immediate cost gives him the ability to easily move a top-9 winger for that defense.


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