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-   -   Simmons: Article about our centers futures. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1402061)

leafspring* 04-12-2013 09:15 AM

Article about our centers futures.
 
No way Bozak gets 5 million as Simmons seems to want to set the bar rather high.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/11...-in-off-season

I would rather give Snazzy a long term deal and let Bozzy walk at that kind of coin.

Pi 04-12-2013 09:17 AM

Easy. Dump Bozak and trade Grabovski...and sign Weiss to a 5M deal instead.

Weiss
Kadri
McClement (he's versatile and can play center).

ErnieLeafs 04-12-2013 09:20 AM

Weiss is fragile. And NOT a first line center on a team with high aspirations, so why spin the tires some more?

Rinzler 04-12-2013 09:20 AM

Why exactly can't we just keep the centers we have?

p.l.f. 04-12-2013 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pi (Post 63811405)
Easy. Dump Bozak and trade Grabovski...and sign Weiss to a 5M deal instead.

Weiss
Kadri
McClement (he's versatile and can play center).

I like him as the 4th center, I'd prefer more of a skill center to get 3 lines scoring
Hopefully Bozak costs no more than 4mil, he would be good in that role

HappyGilmourr 04-12-2013 09:24 AM

I would rather sacrifice the 5-10 points Weiss would maybe give us and keep Bozak over Weiss. He's more durable, dependable and has established chemistry with Phil Kessel. The only way you let Bozak leave is if you have a significant upgrade - Weiss is not. My number 1 target is still Stastny and if they draft Lindholm or Mackinon that leaves them with (Duchene-Lindhom-O'reilly) Stastny is as good as gone. Bozak at 3.5-4.0 and you keep him without thinking. Any more and you consider letting him walk.

Warden of the North 04-12-2013 09:25 AM

I'd rather just keep Grabo as opposed to moving him and signing Weiss.

Vexed 04-12-2013 09:25 AM

I don't understand why people keep making the Bozak/Grabo comparables. They aren't comparables but if you want to go there don't compare Grabo's season this year and the contract he has, you compare the years he had prior and the near 30 goal seasons.

Bozak has not put himself in that bracket and I have no idea why the media here keeps putting him there.

Bozak for 3.5 per and he stays in Toronto on a 4 year deal.

Pi 04-12-2013 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs (Post 63811489)
Weiss is fragile. And NOT a first line center on a team with high aspirations, so why spin the tires some more?

Bozak isn't a 1st line center either. If he wants 5M, he can go and get that somewhere else.

I think 3.5-4M is perfect. We need to stop overpaying 2nd rate talent. I don't like Weiss much either, but at 5M I'd rather have him than Bozak.

Also..Weiss is not fragile, it's been a long time since he was last injured and out for a long time. He has played over 70+ games every year since 06-07.

FlareKnight 04-12-2013 09:29 AM

I agree you have to stay reasonable with Bozak. If he's crazy enough to be asking for 5 million you can definitely say goodby there. 3-3.5 is perfectly fine.

The center situation is going to be a major challenge for Nonis. Kadri needs a deal, need to decide on Bozak and figure out Grabo's place as well.

ACC1224 04-12-2013 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leafspring (Post 63811353)
No way Bozak gets 5 million as Simmons seems to want to set the bar rather high.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/11...-in-off-season

I would rather give Snazzy a long term deal and let Bozzy walk at that kind of coin.

Who is Snazzy?

ErnieLeafs 04-12-2013 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pi (Post 63811697)
Bozak isn't a 1st line center either. If he wants 5M, he can go and get that somewhere else.

I think 3.5-4M is perfect. We need to stop overpaying 2nd rate talent. I don't like Weiss much either, but at 5M I'd rather have him than Bozak.

Also..Weiss is not fragile, it's been a long time since he was last injured and out for a long time. He has played over 70+ games every year since 06-07.

I don't want Bozak for 5m either, we just have no business paying that money to Weiss.

He doesn't really warrant it.

Riptide 04-12-2013 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pi (Post 63811405)
Easy. Dump Bozak and trade Grabovski...and sign Weiss to a 5M deal instead.

Weiss
Kadri
McClement (he's versatile and can play center).

Weiss will likely get closer to 6m.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs (Post 63811489)
Weiss is fragile. And NOT a first line center on a team with high aspirations, so why spin the tires some more?

Fragile? He's played 74 games or more 6 of the last 7 seasons. This season is the only one he's missed any real amount of time. So while I don't think he's a 1st line center... what other options are out there?

There's Reberio, Roy and Weiss. All of whom are better suited as a #2 center over a #1. But when you don't have a #1c you'll have to make due until you can either find one on the UFA market, or draft one (Kadri seems to have that potential). And all of those guys will get 5-6m this summer. Not because I think any of them really deserve it, but because there's not a lot of options. But if I had to give 6m to one of those guys, it would be Weiss.

Vexed 04-12-2013 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlareKnight (Post 63811805)
I agree you have to stay reasonable with Bozak. If he's crazy enough to be asking for 5 million you can definitely say goodby there. 3-3.5 is perfectly fine.

The center situation is going to be a major challenge for Nonis. Kadri needs a deal, need to decide on Bozak and figure out Grabo's place as well.

I can't see how Grabo doesn't get moved. Unless he rips up the post-season... even then that might only serve to increase the return. I just don't think he fits into our system now, not a knock on him as a player because I think a lot of teams could use him better than we are now

416Leafer 04-12-2013 09:33 AM

I think it's likely we'll have two overpaid centres within a couple of months.

Grabo should be getting about 4.0-4.5M, using guys like Laich, Fisher, Legwand, etc as comparisons.

Bozak should be getting 3-3.5M, using guys like Kelly, Stoll, etc as comparisons. Put Bozak on the 3rd line, where he should be, and his point totals would drop to ~30ish, just like I'm sure Chris Kelly would be able to put up 45-50 points if put on a first line with a guy like Kessel as a winger.

I'm not convinced Bozak will get 5.0M, but I think he will get 4.0-4.5M, which IMO is overpaid.

Pi 04-12-2013 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs (Post 63811867)
I don't want Bozak for 5m either, we just have no business paying that money to Weiss.

He doesn't really warrant it.

The problem with not replacing Bozak is that Grabovski is clearly in the doghouse right now. It would not surprise me to see him traded.

What will really suck is if we give Bozak 5M+. We just trade one overpaid center and replace Grabo with another overpaid center.

Desharnais was RFA and got 3.5M and I think they are comparable. Bozak should get ~4M from the Leafs, if he wants 5M, it better be a 1 or 2 year deal.

I just don't think there is a team out there that would give Bozak 5M. You just can't be a contender if you're paying players like Bozak 5M on a long term deal, especially with the cap going down next year.

ErnieLeafs 04-12-2013 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 416Leafer (Post 63811929)
I think it's likely we'll have two overpaid centres within a couple of months.

Grabo should be getting about 4.0-4.5M, using guys like Laich, Fisher, Legwand, etc as comparisons.

Bozak should be getting 3-3.5M, using guys like Kelly, Stoll, etc as comparisons. Put Bozak on the 3rd line, where he should be, and his point totals would drop to ~30ish, just like I'm sure Chris Kelly would be able to put up 45-50 points if put on a first line with a guy like Kessel as a winger.

I'm not convinced Bozak will get 5.0M, but I think he will get 4.0-4.5M, which IMO is overpaid.

Anything over 3.75 is overpaid. The guy wins faceoffs.....

alissa 04-12-2013 09:36 AM

Derek Roy: $4M - Not as versatile as Bozak
Patrice Bergeron: $5M - Better than Bozak
Jordan Staal: $6M - Way better than Bozak
Brandon Dubinsky $4.2M - Very comparable to Bozak
David Backes $4.5M - Better than Bozak

Therefore,

Bozak gets between $4M-$4.4M.

Interesting thing with Grabovski is that even if Bozak and Kadri combined et $8M-9M, and even though the cap is going down, our goalies are still cheap next year. Really, really cheap.

You probably dont HAVE to move Grabovski until 2014 offseason.

They will give Grabovski another chance and keep him around. If Kadri continues to improve, Bozak stays the same, and Colborne is clearly ready to assume the 3-hole, THEN they will move Grabo.

This is not EA Sports NHL 13. It's real life.

Warden of the North 04-12-2013 09:37 AM

Weiss will be getting 6m, book it. For at least 5 years.

416Leafer 04-12-2013 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs (Post 63811991)
Anything over 3.75 is overpaid. The guy wins faceoffs.....

Yep. Wins faceoffs, provides so-so secondary scoring (would be much less if he were used in his proper role), and can play moderately well on special teams.

I actually think if he focused on it and trained more with the goal of being a shutdown 3rd line centre, that he could be quite effective in that role. But that's still a role that only pays ~3-3.5M.

I don't like the idea of giving somebody top 6 player money when they play that position by default, and still aren't putting up legitimate top 6 numbers. Matt Stajan had better point totals when he was here, did anybody want to resign him for 4.5-5.0M?

Al14 04-12-2013 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riptide (Post 63811913)
Weiss will likely get closer to 6m.



Fragile? He's played 74 games or more 6 of the last 7 seasons. This season is the only one he's missed any real amount of time. So while I don't think he's a 1st line center... what other options are out there?

There's Reberio, Roy and Weiss. All of whom are better suited as a #2 center over a #1. But when you don't have a #1c you'll have to make due until you can either find one on the UFA market, or draft one (Kadri seems to have that potential). And all of those guys will get 5-6m this summer. Not because I think any of them really deserve it, but because there's not a lot of options. But if I had to give 6m to one of those guys, it would be Weiss.

Weiss at 6 million is just stupid IMHO. He's not worth that much coin. Is he?

Pi 04-12-2013 09:42 AM

Bozak gets top PP minutes, plays with a PPG forward and another goalscorer and still can't put up points.

He's a glorified 3rd liner that wins faceoffs and plays okay defensively. If he gets 5M, just be prepared to give Kessel 8M.

You overpay Bozak and you have to overpay everyone. It is a trickle down effect.

This offseason is very important. We'll figure out if Nonis is just happy being in the playoffs or does he really want to build a contending team.

Can anyone name a comparable to Bozak on a Cup contending team that makes a lot of money?

A guy like Bolland is comparable IMO. Good 3rd liner...makes like 3.25-3.75M on a long term deal.

Warden of the North 04-12-2013 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al14 (Post 63812223)
Weiss at 6 million is just stupid IMHO. He's not worth that much coin. Is he?

Very thin UFA market means that is market value. He'll get it.

ACC1224 04-12-2013 09:42 AM

I'd be very surprised if Bozak isn't re-signed at a minimum 4.5.

416Leafer 04-12-2013 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre (Post 63812057)
Weiss will be getting 6m, book it. For at least 5 years.

We may end up with him. There was that rumour a few years ago that he would only waive his NTC to come to Toronto. McClement took a discount to come here. Now I'm not expecting Weiss to take a discount to come here, but given similar offers from multiple teams, he may prefer Toronto as the destination.

Just depends if Nonis thinks the price is right. 6M is too much for Weiss IMO. He's coming off of a bad season, and even historically is barely better than Grabo. My only interest is that he would be a definite upgrade over Bozak to play with Kessel, and his playing style unlike Grabo's would probably mesh with Kessel a bit more.

So if Grabo could get moved. I would personally prefer Weiss at a similar contract over Grabo.

JVR-Weiss-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-MacArthur
Kulemin-Bozak-Frattin
Orr-McClement-McClaren

Looks like a better balanced line up than what we currently have. Weiss would fit better on that 1st line. Bozak would do well in the checking line role, and likely get paid more appropriately for it, while also helping out on the PK unlike Grabo. And if Kadri eventually shows he can be a #1 C, then Weiss becomes the 2nd line C, which he is more appropriate for.


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