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-   -   Would You Go See Scabs? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=140330)

Balej20* 04-23-2005 01:25 AM

Would You Go See Scabs?
 
Once again, I'll throw this poll up here. Heres what to consider though. Would u pay to go see scabs if ticket prices were reduced accordingly?

Brooklyn Ranger 04-23-2005 01:39 AM

Nope.

rnyquist 04-23-2005 02:13 AM

hECK NO, the NHL is supposed to be the best league in the world and anything less is a slap in the face to those greats like Howe, Orr, Gretzky among others who made the game what it has and to replace them with "scabs" is an utter disgrace and I sure as hell know Lord Stanley wouldn't have presented his cup to no "scab" league

pld459666 04-23-2005 07:46 AM

I'd go
 
for sure.

without thinking twice.

Fletch 04-23-2005 08:57 AM

If I can get...
 
a front row seat at the Garden for $20, and 22 oz. beers for $3.50, I'd almost consider going to a game or two (no way would I get seasons). And of course, under that model, hockey in NYC could cease to exist). But to be honest, who want to see Tomas Pock as a top defenseman, and Jeff Toms as a top centerman? Sorry, that's not hockey.

True Blue 04-23-2005 09:49 AM

No chance
 
Like Fletch said, give me a front row seat that is $20 or less and a $2 beer and I would consider it. But seeing as that is not happening, I would not pay any attention to scabs.

FLYLine24 04-23-2005 11:02 AM

Absolutely not.

RedLightDistrict 04-23-2005 12:58 PM

I could realisticly (spelling?) see myself going in part because if we sold out msg for a game of scab players, it would prove a point to the pa members that we didn't come to see them, we came to see the rangers. Granted, the NHL is for NHL-caliber players, but if im desperate, I could see myself going

NYR469 04-23-2005 01:40 PM

i can't say either way until 2 factors are known, 1)what will ticket prices be and 2)who are the scabs

if by 'scab' hockey you mean paying nhl prices to watch echl hockey then no chance in hell i'll be going to games, but if it means a handful of nhlers, top ahlers and legit prospects then thats a different story...

many would consider what our team was going to look like under normal circumstances as a bunch of 'non-nhlers'...so if guys like lundmark, balej, tyutin, kondratiev, jessiman, etc are part of the 'replacement' players then we'd basically be getting the 'real' rangers minus holik, jagr and kaspar at reduced prices...

NYR469 04-23-2005 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerbunny1024
I could realisticly (spelling?) see myself going in part because if we sold out msg for a game of scab players, it would prove a point to the pa members that we didn't come to see them, we came to see the rangers. Granted, the NHL is for NHL-caliber players, but if im desperate, I could see myself going

so you are saying that you want to send the message to the league and to dolan that you pay $$ to watch laundry not for the players in the jersey?? gee thats a great message to send. why would teams pay good $$ for real players if people are going to pay to watch the jersey regardless of the product on the ice? they could permanently replace the real players with any beer leaguer willing to skate for $50/night

True Blue 04-23-2005 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR469
if by 'scab' hockey you mean paying nhl prices to watch echl hockey then no chance in hell i'll be going to games, but if it means a handful of nhlers, top ahlers and legit prospects then thats a different story...

That's rather the point. You will not see the top AHLers & legit prospects. Crosby has already stated that he is not playing in a replacement league. Why won't the legit prospects come? Becuase eventually they will have to pay the piper when the union returns.

True Blue 04-23-2005 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerbunny1024
I could realisticly (spelling?) see myself going in part because if we sold out msg for a game of scab players, it would prove a point to the pa members that we didn't come to see them, we came to see the rangers. Granted, the NHL is for NHL-caliber players, but if im desperate, I could see myself going

That is also the point. Most of us want to see the Rangers, not the scab Rangers. Big difference.

dedalus 04-23-2005 11:16 PM

For the question you asked there's no simple yes or no for me. It all depends on ticket price.

If the question is: "Would scabs keep me away from MSG?" my answer is no. I wouldn't reject the team simply because it consisted of lesser players, but obviously management would have to charge accordingly in order to get me to buy tickets.

I'm assuming you're asking about the principle of replacement players, so I voted "yes" on the poll.

Onion Boy 04-23-2005 11:18 PM

I would watch on TV (at least for a time), but I probably would not go to games.

dedalus 04-23-2005 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
You will not see the top AHLers & legit prospects. Crosby has already stated that he is not playing in a replacement league. Why won't the legit prospects come? Becuase eventually they will have to pay the piper when the union returns.

If enough NHLers cross their own line (say 25%), there will be no retribution. Also, as was pointed out in a recent THN article, as many as 250 current NHLers (possibly more) may not be back when the league begins again. Thus you can subtract some of these players from those who would carry a grudge.

It's easy for a guy like Crosby to say he won't play (and one should wonder just how long his resolve would hold any way), but when you're guaranteed of earning at the top of the pay scale and huge endorsements, it's easy to adopt the Association hard line. There will be plenty of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders who will be willing to launch their careers and earn a paycheck earlier than they normally could.

303Joe 04-24-2005 09:36 AM

No chance..
 
I will not go see scabs play this great game. It's gonna take me awhile to go see the real schmucks play after this greed driven lockout. I'm not going into who side I'm on I think both sides could have worked a litle harder to get something done to avoid this disaster. Back to the scabs I will not be going to any games w/ scabs playing. I don't care what price they charge I will not be going.

Fletch 04-24-2005 10:30 AM

killerbunny...
 
I think most people, while rooting for people in a sweater, have their favorite players, and for casual fans especially, and young kids, they root for specific players. People say 'I root for a sweater', but there are professionals wearing that sweater. They're the best in the world; even in Rangers uniform. They play a game at a very high, and often entertaining level. I like watching college and AHL hockey, but it just doesn't compare to even a couple crappy NHL teams. The game's slower. The hitting is less fierce. The shooting isn't as intense. It's a different game. That's about what you'd get with scab hockey. And the teams are going to market and immortalize scab players, and thus the popularity of the game would wane even more. Rooting for the sweater is one thing - but watching scabs would be like watching an inferior product to the NHL and it would almost be surreal - like the games didn't even count towards anything - and like nobody even cares.

AG9NK35DT8* 04-24-2005 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balej20
Once again, I'll throw this poll up here. Heres what to consider though. Would u pay to go see scabs if ticket prices were reduced accordingly?

No I wouldnt go pay to see scabs, but I would watch them on TV. I wont even go see the NYR's anymore until they start winning NHL or not.

ATLANTARANGER* 04-25-2005 01:05 PM

8 rows off the ice, Gwinnett v Charlotte $13!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
a front row seat at the Garden for $20, and 22 oz. beers for $3.50, I'd almost consider going to a game or two (no way would I get seasons). And of course, under that model, hockey in NYC could cease to exist). But to be honest, who want to see Tomas Pock as a top defenseman, and Jeff Toms as a top centerman? Sorry, that's not hockey.

You are accurate on the beer prices though!

True Blue 04-25-2005 01:19 PM

I think that what these type of polls show
 
is the resounding fact that a scab league would not work. First of all, despite the bleeding hearts that use the argument of "rooting for the sweater and not the players", most fans understand that scabs are nothing but an insult to hockey fans. Using scabs is the owners saying that they can put anyone into the uniform and we would flock like sheep to see them.
Second, the arguments that people pay for entertainment and not specifc players is a hollow one. The fact of the matter is that, while yes, people pay for entertainment, there is difference between watching the best in the world and those who would not be allowed anywhere near a ring without a ticket.

dedalus 04-27-2005 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
while yes, people pay for entertainment, there is difference between watching the best in the world and those who would not be allowed anywhere near a ring without a ticket.

You mean of course "not allowed near an NHL rink." Replacement players would most certainly be pros, prospects, and high-caliber amateurs. You might conceivably argue that no one would pay to watch you skate (although I'd argue that we could get money from family, friends, and well-wishers), but you will never be wearing the Ranger sweater - even as a replacement. Ultimately people prove every day that they do not have to watch "the best in the world" when they purchase tickets to other teams in other leagues. They will indeed pay for a lesser product and that cannot be argued - it is fact. However, they will not pay the same price, and the NHL would have to account for that.

As for the "sheep" & "insult" stuff, if you know what you're getting when you buy your ticket, the first of these doesn't hold up. If they lied to you, took your money, and left you standing impotent when you realized the truth about the product, you might have a case. But we all know what they'll be selling, and although they'll try to market it well, no owner would attempt to say he's giving you the same talent.

The second ("insult") doesn't hold so long as the ticket price reflects the value of the product. Actually, even if it doesn't reflect the value of the product, I still don't understand the sensibility that I've been insulted because someone wants to overcharge me. I don't get offended or feel insulted by The Sharper Image; I simply don't shop there. (Although I confess that I sometimes feel smug that someone would pay half again for something I could get elsewhere. :D )

Fletch 04-27-2005 03:15 PM

Very true, dedalus...
 
and of course, the gate receipts would be significantly reduced, as would the advertising revenues, and likely, teams would be losing a fair amount of money - some more than before, others less than before. Unfortunately we would measure success as the number of people attending/watching and gross revenues. Some of the teams may measure success in a different way - such as those few teams that really don't want to get a deal done unless it resoundingly favors the owners.

pld459666 04-27-2005 03:25 PM

I'd like to know
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
is the resounding fact that a scab league would not work. First of all, despite the bleeding hearts that use the argument of "rooting for the sweater and not the players", most fans understand that scabs are nothing but an insult to hockey fans. Using scabs is the owners saying that they can put anyone into the uniform and we would flock like sheep to see them.
Second, the arguments that people pay for entertainment and not specifc players is a hollow one. The fact of the matter is that, while yes, people pay for entertainment, there is difference between watching the best in the world and those who would not be allowed anywhere near a ring without a ticket.


how icing a team of replacement players is an insult to me?

please explain. Because if I know that the product will not be NHL calibre and I choose to watch how is that insulting?

I'd rather watch some Grocery Bagger bust his ass on the ice than some 3 million dollar 3rd liner dog it because he feels like he should be on the 2nd line. Or that Jagr simply quit on Washington after they handed him a monster of a contract.

I appreciate the college level of sports alot more than I appreciate the pro level simply because they are still playing with heart. I'm insulted more by today's real NHL'ers simple because they forgot how to play with their hearts on their sleeves.

I'm more insulted that the NHLPA and the players are telling me that they would rather play in another league, a lesser league (as scabs themselves) for peanuts than to play in the NHL in a system where their total payroll is tied to total league revenue.

What are they afraid of?

Replacement players aren't insulting, the so called NHL'ers are more insulting to me.

Fletch 04-27-2005 03:51 PM

It's not an insult to you...
 
it's an insult to the sweater in a sense. It's so difficult to make it to the NHL and now they'll open up to guys who normally would not be able to play and lower the caliber of play to try and make a point. And it is somewhat insulting to the common guy who doesn't know any better whereby the organization is trying to pass the team off as a bunch of NHLers, when they're not.

I'm not insulted - I too am not decided if I thought the games would even count in my mind (so many people (i.e., Rangers fans) put an asterisk next to the Devils cup because they played a shortened season - what about a season with replacement players?).

jratelle19 04-27-2005 05:09 PM

Replacement players would attract interest from fans for about a week or two before they would lose interest. Smart move by the league to hold off on replacements.


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