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-   -   How would you rank our defensemen? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1405095)

cookie 04-16-2013 08:10 AM

How would you rank our defensemen?
 
As an extension to the forward ranking thread, how would you rank the leafs' d-men?

Phaneuf is our captain and IMO our best defenseman facing and thriving against the toughest competition. However, after him, there is a lot of mixup. Our defensive system and our goalie have helped highlight how great our defense corps has been this season.
  • Franson's played really well this season doing everything except fighting
  • Fraser's been solid, hitting and fighting and clearing the front of the net
  • Gunnarsson's been solid but unspectacular, with his injury not greatly affecting his play
And then we have the rest:
  • RoB had a bad game recently, but has played really well defensively
  • Liles has been unfairly sat IMO. Still has the same defensive weaknesses he has had throughout his career, but his skating and passing are quite helpful
  • Gardiner is not playing like he was in his rookie year. Takes too long to make a play and makes errors
  • Kostka has been assigned roles over his head--he'd be an amazing second pairing or third pairing defenseman
  • Same with Holzer, except less offense than Kostka and more grittiness
For me the rankings are:
  1. Phaneuf
  2. Franson
  3. Liles
  4. Gunnarsson
  5. Fraser
  6. RoByrne
  7. Gardiner
  8. Kostka
  9. Holzer

blasted_Sabre 04-16-2013 08:13 AM

When healthy

Phaneuf
Gunnarson
Franson
Liles
Fraser
Gardiner
ROB

Gardiner of course has the potential to rise dramatically. He just need to figure out defense.

Anth93 04-16-2013 08:14 AM

This year:
Phaneuf

Gunnarsson


Franson
Fraser
Gardiner
Kostka
Liles
ROB




Holzer

416Leafer 04-16-2013 08:18 AM

I don't know how you can rank Franson second...

Franson is good, in his role. But he is being used against the weakest forwards the other teams have to offer, he has the lowest QoC on the team (aside from Gardiner who's only played a handful of games).

So yea, he is a very effective 3rd pairing defenceman. But how do you think he would look on the top pairing with Phaneuf and how would Gunnarson look on the 3rd pairing? Franson would look terrible and out of place, while Gunnarson would look fabulous.

calcal798 04-16-2013 09:19 AM

Phaneuf
Gunnarson
Franson
Fraser
Liles
Gardiner
ROB

Should not be long before Gardiner becomes the guy between Phaneuf and Gunnarson in that ranking. He had a good game saturday, he just needs to do that consistently.

I think when Gardiner makes that jump, it will be the end of Liles as a Maple Leaf (I hope).

LeftTackle51 04-16-2013 09:47 AM

Costco
Holzer
Komi
Gards
Reilly
Costco

BonMorrison 04-16-2013 09:54 AM

Phaneuf

Gunnarsson
Fraser
Franson
Liles

Gardiner
O'Byrne


Kostka




Holzer

Michael Gary Scott 04-16-2013 09:56 AM

Have to take into consideration where each player is playing and who theyre playing against. No question Dion has been the #1, I'd even go as far as tossing him a couple Norris votes. After that its Gunnarsson, and thats even after him being injured and unable to play at 100% this year.

Further on down the list its a toss up. Carlyle has done a good job of playing players to their capabilities (at least in the past 25 games). Franson and Fraser are both playing beyond themselves, but because theyre being used where they can succeed. Liles has been pretty good, but not great. Gardiner has started to rev up a bit here in the past few games and showing his old self again, but he hasnt played enough to make a definitive decision. Kostka was a nice story for training camp, on a team that wasnt expected to go anywhere, but hes not an NHL defenceman. Or at the most hes a tweener. And ROB has been meh. Quiet in his first few games but started to show his old Av self in last nights game.

Phaneuf
Gunnarsson
Franson/Fraser
Gardiner
Liles





Kostka

TieClark 04-16-2013 09:56 AM

Phaneuf

-Large Gap-

Franson
Liles
Fraser
Gardiner
O'Byrne

-Large Gap-

Kostka
Gunnarsson
Holzer


Anyone that has Gunnarsson anywhere near the top has no idea what they're watching

Diatomic 04-16-2013 09:57 AM

Phaneuf
Franson
Liles
Gunnarsson
Gardiner
Fraser
RoByrne
Kostka
Holzer

Diatomic 04-16-2013 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TieClark (Post 64042833)
Phaneuf

-Large Gap-

Franson
Liles
Fraser
Gardiner
O'Byrne

-Large Gap-

Kostka
Gunnarsson
Holzer


Anyone that has Gunnarsson anywhere near the top has no idea what they're watching

He definitely isn't a top2 D-man but your putting him with trash like Kostka and Holzer? Disrespect :laugh:

RhinoD 04-16-2013 10:01 AM

Captain - top of the list and its not close....


Fraser
Franson
Gunnarson
Liles
O'Byrne (limited sample size)
Gardiner
Kostka
Holzer

cynicism 04-16-2013 10:04 AM

Phaneuf: Playing very well, but I think naming him captain was the wrong move at the time. His play has improved.

Liles: Seems to have recovered from his concussion, skates well, sees the ice well, competes. Size is a bit of concern.

Franson: Needs to work more on the defensive side of things.

Gardiner: Keeper. He's learning, young d-men struggle at times. But he'll be a great d-man in a couple of years if he keeps developping.

Gunnar: Solid, decent, unremarkable but a keeper.

Fraser/O'Byrne: I don't see the point of playing them both in the same game.

Kostka: A journeyman, nothing special.

Holzer: Needs a lot of work, if his place in the roster is as a 7th d-man, then I'm fine with it.

TieClark 04-16-2013 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeafsWantStanley (Post 64042891)
He definitely isn't a top2 D-man but your putting him with trash like Kostka and Holzer? Disrespect :laugh:

He is absolutely brutal.

Diatomic 04-16-2013 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynicism (Post 64043093)
Phaneuf: Playing very well, but I think naming him captain was the wrong move at the time. His play has improved.

Liles: Seems to have recovered from his concussion, skates well, sees the ice well, competes. Size is a bit of concern.

Franson: Needs to work more on the defensive side of things.

Gardiner: Keeper. He's learning, young d-men struggle at times. But he'll be a great d-man in a couple of years if he keeps developping.

Gunnar: Solid, decent, unremarkable but a keeper.

Fraser/O'Byrne: I don't see the point of playing them both in the same game.

Kostka: A journeyman, nothing special.

Holzer: Needs a lot of work, if his place in the roster is as a 7th d-man, then I'm fine with it.

This was SPOT ON. Especially the Fraser/O'Byrne: I don't see the point of playing them both in the same game.

RhinoD 04-16-2013 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynicism (Post 64043093)
Phaneuf: Playing very well, but I think naming him captain was the wrong move at the time. His play has improved.

Liles: Seems to have recovered from his concussion, skates well, sees the ice well, competes. Size is a bit of concern.

Franson: Needs to work more on the defensive side of things.

Gardiner: Keeper. He's learning, young d-men struggle at times. But he'll be a great d-man in a couple of years if he keeps developping.

Gunnar: Solid, decent, unremarkable but a keeper.

Fraser/O'Byrne: I don't see the point of playing them both in the same game.

Kostka: A journeyman, nothing special.

Holzer: Needs a lot of work, if his place in the roster is as a 7th d-man, then I'm fine with it.

This list is good analysis, but not close to who have been the best this year... Gardiner has potential (as everyone has seen) but he has been downright dreadful defensively at times.

BonMorrison 04-16-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TieClark (Post 64042833)
Phaneuf

-Large Gap-

Franson
Liles
Fraser
Gardiner
O'Byrne

-Large Gap-

Kostka
Gunnarsson
Holzer


Anyone that has Gunnarsson anywhere near the top has no idea what they're watching

You're the only one to list Gunnarsson at the bottom yet everyone else has no idea what they're watching apparently. :laugh:

K.

zeke 04-16-2013 10:28 AM

1. Phaneuf
2. Gardiner
3. Gunnarsson
4. Franson
5. Liles
6. Fraser
7. O'Byrne
8. Kostks

Jtabo 04-16-2013 10:28 AM

Based solely on their play this year:

Phaneuf
Franson
Fraser
Gunnarson
Liles
O'Byrne
Gardiner
Kostka
Holzer


Where I think the ranks could be down the road:

Phaneuf
Gardiner
Franson
Gunnarson
Fraser
Holzer
Liles
OByrne
Kostka

Anth93 04-16-2013 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TieClark (Post 64042833)
Phaneuf

-Large Gap-

Franson
Liles
Fraser
Gardiner
O'Byrne

-Large Gap-

Kostka
Gunnarsson
Holzer


Anyone that has Gunnarsson anywhere near the top has no idea what they're watching

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhinoD (Post 64043003)
Captain - top of the list and its not close....


Fraser
Franson
Gunnarson
Liles
O'Byrne (limited sample size)
Gardiner
Kostka
Holzer

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynicism (Post 64043093)
Phaneuf: Playing very well, but I think naming him captain was the wrong move at the time. His play has improved.

Liles: Seems to have recovered from his concussion, skates well, sees the ice well, competes. Size is a bit of concern.

Franson: Needs to work more on the defensive side of things.

Gardiner: Keeper. He's learning, young d-men struggle at times. But he'll be a great d-man in a couple of years if he keeps developping.

Gunnar: Solid, decent, unremarkable but a keeper.

Fraser/O'Byrne: I don't see the point of playing them both in the same game.

Kostka: A journeyman, nothing special.

Holzer: Needs a lot of work, if his place in the roster is as a 7th d-man, then I'm fine with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeke (Post 64043919)
1. Phaneuf
2. Gardiner
3. Gunnarsson
4. Franson
5. Liles
6. Fraser
7. O'Byrne
8. Kostks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jtabo (Post 64043929)
Based solely on their play this year:

Phaneuf
Franson
Fraser
Gunnarson
Liles
O'Byrne
Gardiner
Kostka
Holzer


Where I think the ranks could be down the road:

Phaneuf
Gardiner
Franson
Gunnarson

Fraser
Holzer
Liles
OByrne
Kostka

Ladies and gentlemen, the most underrated Maple Leaf.

HockeyGuruPitka 04-16-2013 10:37 AM

Phaneuf

Gunnarsson
Franson
Fraser

Liles
Gardiner
ROB
Kostka

416Leafer 04-16-2013 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anth93 (Post 64044209)
Ladies and gentlemen, the most underrated Maple Leaf.

Yep. Gunnarson plays effectively on the top pairing, Franson plays effectively on the 3rd pairing. And then everyones rankings have Franson as our 2nd best defenceman.

If he was the 2nd best defenceman, he'd be getting more ice-time, and he'd be used against tougher competition from the opposing teams. He IS have a very good year (by his standards), and has been contributing offensively. But he's not playing key minutes, which makes a huge difference.

ACC1224 04-16-2013 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TieClark (Post 64042833)
Phaneuf

-Large Gap-

Franson
Liles
Fraser
Gardiner
O'Byrne

-Large Gap-

Kostka
Gunnarsson
Holzer


Anyone that has Gunnarsson anywhere near the top has no idea what they're watching

This is pretty much it for me. Only change I'd swap Gunnar with Kostka.

Jtabo 04-16-2013 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anth93 (Post 64044209)
Ladies and gentlemen, the most underrated Maple Leaf.

How is me having him 4th in both my lists underrating him? Seems love your over rating him. He is what he is, a 2nd pair dman.

Falon 04-16-2013 02:37 PM

1 - Phaneuf

2 - Gardiner (when on his game, has shown flashes this year, but the lockout and injuries slowed his progress a bit. He'll get there though, he's only 22)

3 - Gunnarson - perfect number 3 guy who can play number 2 in a pinch. Steady, good puck mover, reliable. Good at everything, great at nothing. Still, fantastic pick for the 7th round.

4 - Franson - last season, he was a 5/6 defenseman, he has improved in every aspect and I am now completely comfortable with him in the top 4. Good puck mover who is learning to use his body more thanks to playing with Fraser.

5 - Fraser - A gem of a find for a career AHLer. Solid, stay at home presence. Might be able to play in the top 4 like Franson, and does on occasion, but for now is a solid #5

6 - Liles - offensive defenseman who moves the puck very well. Little physicality due to size and sometimes gets caught out of position. Will likely be traded as soon as Reilly is ready.

7 - O'byrne, Holzer, Kostka - depth defensemen who can play in the #6 spot, just not everyday, with Holzer the only one signed beyond this season.


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