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-   -   Should Ducks Retire Paul Kariya Jersey? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1405651)

Starkiller 04-16-2013 06:11 PM

Should Ducks Retire Paul Kariya Jersey?
 
Hey, i made a thread about this in the Ducks Forum, and it got emotional with the Duck Fans that didnt really see him play in the 90s i found, and then the thread got closed. So i figured to try here and see what you guys think.


Paul Kariya was a huge inspiration to me and fav player growing up. I actually watched him play some of the international games before he played for the ducks. But in the 90s, his prime, this guy could really fly. He had a Rocket Shot, uncanny speed, play making ability, and a high Hockey IQ. He was Electrifying to watch, if you got to see him play in the 90s. Worth watching.

The Downfall of course was concussions and injuries. The Suter hit, was just sickening to witness, Blindside Cheap shot to PK's Head while he is celebrating the goal he just scored, and ultimately robbed Canada of seeing him Play with Gretzky at the 98 Nagano olympics, where Paul's dad was from.(Paul was arguably at the time Canada's Best player on that team) in which Canada lost that year. It Seemed like Kariya was always targeted, took a lot of hits and cheap shots. But after so many concussions you could see he just wasnt the same Explosive threat, but still very good.

But, we all know about the departure, he was a UFA and wanted to paid a certain amount, it didnt work out so he bolted to Join forces with his BFF Selanne(who was a FA) which was probably a once in life time shot to play together on a decent Avs Team. I Found that a lot of fans i talked too that remember watching him play in the 90s have no problem retiring his #.

Kariya Put was a 3 time First team all star, and 2 time second team all-star with the ducks, and put up a lot of pts for the franchise. 669 Pts in 606 games. Kariya will probably Finish with the Highest Pts Per Game for any Duck who has played over 600 games. I think emotions aside, the impact he had on the league and the team says a lot. I think they should Retire his Number, its been what a decade now and the ducks won a cup in the end after he left.


And how the heck is Bobby Ryan brave enough to wear #9 now for the ducks? I dont understand that one, if he was lighting up the stats i would have no problem.


what do you think ?

eddytheeagle20 04-16-2013 07:45 PM

does paul deserve his number to be retired by the team he had his greatest sucsess with?
yes he does but another current duck deserves to be first

Wrath 04-16-2013 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddytheeagle20 (Post 64075311)
does paul deserve his number to be retired by the team he had his greatest sucsess with?
yes he does but another current duck deserves to be first

Well do you think they should wait for Selanne to retire (and have his jersey retired) and then retire Kariya's jersey afterwards?

I don't think they generally retire jerseys in this fashion.

eddytheeagle20 04-16-2013 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrath (Post 64077819)
Well do you think they should wait for Selanne to retire (and have his jersey retired) and then retire Kariya's jersey afterwards?

I don't think they generally retire jerseys in this fashion.

i think its more likey they get retired the same night they played together and were good friends it would be a good gesture as well i think theyd be the firdt 2 reitired numbers in anaheim history or am i mistacken?

pdd 04-16-2013 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddytheeagle20 (Post 64075311)
does paul deserve his number to be retired by the team he had his greatest sucsess with?
yes he does but another current duck deserves to be first

Selanne may have played more years, and perhaps has been the "greater" Duck.

But Kariya is the best player in the history of the Ducks.

Skobel24 04-16-2013 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 64081915)

But Kariya is the best player in the history of the Ducks.

No, he isn't. Selanne is.

As for Kariya's number being retired, he didn't exactly leave on good terms, and a lot of fans have yet to really move past it.

pdd 04-16-2013 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skobel24 (Post 64083243)
No, he isn't. Selanne is.

As for Kariya's number being retired, he didn't exactly leave on good terms, and a lot of fans have yet to really move past it.

Kariya was better when they were together. Selanne has not played better than that in his second stint.

What Kariya and Selanne did outside of Anaheim doesn't matter when considering who the best player as a Duck is.

eddytheeagle20 04-16-2013 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 64084121)
Kariya was better when they were together. Selanne has not played better than that in his second stint.

What Kariya and Selanne did outside of Anaheim doesn't matter when considering who the best player as a Duck is.

selanne led them to a cup something kariya couldent do

King Forsberg 04-16-2013 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 64081915)
Selanne may have played more years, and perhaps has been the "greater" Duck.

But Kariya is the best player in the history of the Ducks.

Surprised you don't think Fedorov was the greatest duck of all time.

TAnnala 04-16-2013 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 64081915)
Selanne may have played more years, and perhaps has been the "greater" Duck.

But Kariya is the best player in the history of the Ducks.

I am a bit biased, well not a bit a lot.

But Kariya being better than Selanne in Anaheim is highly debatable and in hindsight i believe Selanne was better. At the time Kariya was probably considered as slightly better but the results speak in favor of Selanne.

pdd 04-16-2013 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddytheeagle20 (Post 64096347)
selanne led them to a cup something kariya couldent do

Kariya could have done it if he had been the one who had come back in 2005-06.

You forget, Kariya scored 85 and then 76 in the first two years after the lockout. Centered by David Legwand in Nashville, and with nobody like Niedermayer or Pronger on the blueline.

Had Kariya been the winger who had returned, he certainly could have taken them to a Cup with the roster they had.

King Forsberg 04-16-2013 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 64100491)
Kariya could have done it if he had been the one who had come back in 2005-06.

You forget, Kariya scored 85 and then 76 in the first two years after the lockout. Centered by David Legwand in Nashville, and with nobody like Niedermayer or Pronger on the blueline.

Had Kariya been the winger who had returned, he certainly could have taken them to a Cup with the roster they had.

Have to disagree here. Kariya had some good defensemen in his time in Nashville. Timonen was in his prime and fantastic offensively. As was Zidlicky. In 2007 Hamhuis, Weber, and Suter were starting to come around along with Timonen and Zidlicky. Kariya also got to play with Forsberg at the end of 2007. You're arguing that Kariya might have been able to lead The ducks to a cup if he came back. Well he didnt so it's not really worth debating since there's no proof

pdd 04-16-2013 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingForsberg (Post 64098995)
Surprised you don't think Fedorov was the greatest duck of all time.

Unless there's someone I haven't thought of, he actually is the greatest player who has been a Duck. But he is not the greatest Duck, as he only played one season there late in his career.

Kind of like Gretzky on the Blues or Rangers. He's not the best Rangers player or the best Blues player. But he's the best player ever to play for those teams.

One comparison that is fun is deciding who the better player is between Messier and Gretzky by who was better for New York and Edmonton.

King Forsberg 04-16-2013 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 64101047)
Unless there's someone I haven't thought of, he actually is the greatest player who has been a Duck. But he is not the greatest Duck, as he only played one season there late in his career.

We'll have to just agree to disagree here. I'd rank Kurri, Oates, and Selanne over Fedorov. You could make arguments for Pronger and Niedermayer as well. But I don't really feel like arguing this.

pdd 04-16-2013 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingForsberg (Post 64100881)
Have to disagree here. Kariya had some good defensemen in his time in Nashville. Timonen was in his prime and fantastic offensively. As was Zidlicky. In 2007 Hamhuis, Weber, and Suter were starting to come around along with Timonen and Zidlicky. Kariya also got to play with Forsberg at the end of 2007. You're arguing that Kariya might have been able to lead The ducks to a cup if he came back. Well he didnt so it's not really worth debating since you have no proof.

No, I'm arguing that Paul Kariya was the best player ever in a Ducks jersey. I prefaced my initial statement that Selanne had perhaps been "greater" but Kariya was better.

They are different.

Paul Kariya was like Sidney Crosby where he would play 20 or 40 or 60 games and you'd say he was the best player.

Teemu Selanne was like Alex Ovechkin where he would miss very few games and score bunches of goals.

pdd 04-16-2013 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingForsberg (Post 64101307)
We'll have to just agree to disagree here. I'd rank Kurri, and Selanne over Fedorov. You could make arguments for Pronger and Niedermayer as well. But I don't really feel like arguing this.

There is no argument for Niedermayer. Fedorov was considered an elite player for a decade before Niedermayer became relevant in the NHL.

But enough about these guys and back on Kariya.

Paul4587 04-16-2013 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starkiller (Post 64065155)
Hey, i made a thread about this in the Ducks Forum, and it got emotional with the Duck Fans that didnt really see him play in the 90s i found, and then the thread got closed. So i figured to try here and see what you guys think.

Are you serious? Most of the people that objected to it being retired were fans that have been around since the 90s. Fans that actually remember how he lied to them and back-stabbed management.

As for the question - he absolutely does not deserve his number retired. He put up some great numbers in the regular season but never led Anaheim anywhere when it counted and the one run they did make while he was there he was invisible for - it was all Giguere. When you factor in the way he left it's a no brainer that his number shouldn't hang from the rafters.

As for the best Duck - Selanne, Niedermayer & Pronger were all better when they were in Anaheim. When Teemu and Paul played together in Anaheim Selanne was always the slightly better player. Kariya was the more explosive player and was more exciting to watch but Selanne was better.

King Forsberg 04-16-2013 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 64101371)
No, I'm arguing that Paul Kariya was the best player ever in a Ducks jersey. I prefaced my initial statement that Selanne had perhaps been "greater" but Kariya was better.

They are different.

Paul Kariya was like Sidney Crosby where he would play 20 or 40 or 60 games and you'd say he was the best player.

Teemu Selanne was like Alex Ovechkin where he would miss very few games and score bunches of goals.

I don't mean to come across as rude but did you even read what I typed? I didn't, and I'm not now, disagreeing about Kariya being better than Selanne when they played together. My post was just showing that Kariya had plenty of help in Nashville especially on the Blueline which you claimed he didn't.

eddytheeagle20 04-17-2013 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul4587 (Post 64101659)
Are you serious? Most of the people that objected to it being retired were fans that have been around since the 90s. Fans that actually remember how he lied to them and back-stabbed management.

As for the question - he absolutely does not deserve his number retired. He put up some great numbers in the regular season but never led Anaheim anywhere when it counted and the one run they did make while he was there he was invisible for - it was all Giguere. When you factor in the way he left it's a no brainer that his number shouldn't hang from the rafters.

As for the best Duck - Selanne, Niedermayer & Pronger were all better when they were in Anaheim. When Teemu and Paul played together in Anaheim Selanne was always the slightly better player. Kariya was the more explosive player and was more exciting to watch but Selanne was better.

that's going a little far IMO i think a players personality should not hinge whether they get their jersey retired. its their importance to the franchises history the only awards kariya won as a duck was the lady biyng where selanne won the rocket richard and a cup so he deserves to be honourd before karya i do believe he'll have his number retired someday just not before selanne

saskriders 04-17-2013 12:03 AM

Yes, do it on the same night as Selanne (first game after he retires). They should be remembered for the 1-2 punch they were.

Paul4587 04-17-2013 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddytheeagle20 (Post 64102407)
that's going a little far IMO i think a players personality should not hinge whether they get their jersey retired. its their importance to the franchises history the only awards kariya won as a duck was the lady biyng where selanne won the rocket richard and a cup so he deserves to be honourd before karya i do believe he'll have his number retired someday just not before selanne

If Kariya was getting his number retired then Ryan wouldn't be wearing number 9 right now. It's not happening. Maybe if he didn't disappear completely during the 2002-03 playoffs he would have more of a case.

eddytheeagle20 04-17-2013 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul4587 (Post 64102841)
If Kariya was getting his number retired then Ryan wouldn't be wearing number 9 right now. It's not happening. Maybe if he didn't disappear completely during the 2002-03 playoffs he would have more of a case.

up until that point his "off the floor goal" was the greatest moment in ducks history so i dont see how he dissipeared

Starkiller 04-17-2013 12:36 AM

some good answers. Both Selanne and kariya obviously elite players in the 90s, but concussions I still believe to be what hurt kariya's level of play in the late 90s. he was still a really good player tho. i actually liked him on canada's top line with Lemieux and yzerman when they won gold at salt lake.

I think in the 90s kariya was the better player because he had a little more to his game then selanne. he was a 3 time first team all star in those years, but selanne and kariya era didn't have a great supporting cast that were gonna win the cup, there just were better teams. teams win championships.

Starkiller 04-17-2013 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 64081915)
Selanne may have played more years, and perhaps has been the "greater" Duck.

But Kariya is the best player in the history of the Ducks.

I strongly believe that too. like when kariya left the ducks to go with selanne and play on the Avs, for some reason it didnt work out for selanne, there were times he was just a healthy scratch, while the games kariya missed that year were all due to injury, not healthy scratch.

eddytheeagle20 04-17-2013 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starkiller (Post 64104877)
I strongly believe that too. like when kariya left the ducks to go with selanne and play on the Avs, for some reason it didnt work out for selanne, there were times he was just a healthy scratch, while the games kariya missed that year were all due to injury, not healthy scratch.

the reason it didnt work was because he was playing on one leg


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