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Big Phil 04-29-2005 06:58 PM

Top 5 ommitted HOFers
 
This is my list of the top 5 players who arent in the Hall of Fame in the order of most deserving. Oh and by the way, surprise, surprise Neely isnt the 1st!

In order of most deserving:

#1 Rogie Vachon - I have no idea why he inst in the Hall. This may raise a few eyebrows as to him being #1 but think about it. He won the Vezina Trophy in '68, was second team all-star twice, in '75 and '77 and to top it off he had 355 wins. In comparison Terry Sawchuk had 447. He also won three Cups. Plus he played on some mediocre Kings teams and still put up good numbers. And who was in stellar in net for every game for Canada in the '76 Canada Cup? Vachon.

#2 Glenn Anderson - What more does the guy have to do? 6 playoff overtime goals? A known clutch goal scorer. 6 Cups. 498 goals. Scored 50 twice in his career. Had 100 points three times in his career. No all-star selections at Right Wing but that was more because Bossy and Kurri were there. I say put him in there no question.

#3 Rick Middleton - 5 straight years of 90 points or more, another season with 86. Scored 50 goals once, 100 points twice. Good playoff numbers. To me he's above Neely as to a guy who has to be in there. No Cups, but he played in his share of Cup finals.

#4 Cam Neely - Okay everyone stop screaming, this is why he isnt above the rest of them. Look I love Neely, very good player. And if he was in the Hall I wouldnt make a fuss, but what bothers me is the people that are willing to die just to see him in there. Why? He had 4, count them, 4 good seasons in his career. that was '88, '90, '91 and '94. Everything else is nothing to write home about. He had four second team all-star selections all in those years. That's good but is it great? I feel bad that his career was cut short, but if a guy loses his career to injuries do we put him in just because of that? If so why dont we put Geoff Courtnall in? If he gets in its not a big deal, but to all you Homers out there, face it, there are better guys than him not in there.

#5 John Tonelli - He won four Cups fo the Isles, and was the MVP of the Canada Cup in '84. He played two way Hockey very well and was twice named second all-star team. Put up 100 points once and 93 another time. My feeling is that if Clark Gilles got in there ahead of him then Tonelli should be in there. To me he was a better player.

That's it. That is my top 5. Deabte over it all you want and make up your own list.
HM goes to other guys - Dino Ciccarelli, Rick Martin, Dave Taylor, Pete Mahovolich.

Rather Gingerly 1* 04-29-2005 07:48 PM

Paul Henderson also

Spitfire11 04-29-2005 07:57 PM

Claude Provost would be my #1

reckoning 04-29-2005 08:35 PM

Pre-Expansion:

1- Claude Provost- The top defensive forward on both the Montreal dynasties of the late 50s and late 60s; was better at shutting down Hull than anyone else, yet also contributed offensively.

2- Paul Thompson- Some research I`ve done shows him to have been a very underrated player stuck on a bad team; was actually the top scorer in the NHL over a five-year span (got that info from the trivia thread).

3- Johnny Gottselig- Same era and team as Thompson; was surprised to find out he`s not in the HHOF.

4- Lionel Hitchman- Eddie Shore`s defense partner, whose steady play enabled Shore to take so many chances; was overlooked by everyone but Boston who retired his number.

5- Dean Prentice- very consistent scorer who had the misfortune to be stuck on a lot of crappy teams.

Post-Expansion

1- Rogie Vachon- For all the reasons mentioned in the first post. I agree completely and couldn`t have said it better.

2- Mark Howe- I don`t get it. Consistently one of the best defencemen in the league, strong in all three zones, a 3-time 1st All-Star (more than Savard, Howell, LaPointe, Langway and Salming among others)and came back from one of the most horriffic injuries ever.

3- Rick Middleton- once again for the reasons mentioned in the first post.

4- Guy Carbonneau- Patrick Roy was the main reason Montreal won the Cup in `93, but Carbonneau was a close second for all the things that never show up on the score sheet.

5- Cam Neely- a first-class jerk, but also a first-rate right-winger, arguably the best at that position in his prime, and also gave extra at playoff time.

Guys who don`t deserve to be there

Dino Ciccarelli
Glenn Anderson
Brian Bellows
Bernie Nicholls
Dale Hunter
Kevin Lowe
Sergei Makarov
John Vanbiesbrouck
Paul Henderson
Mike Liut

Players who`re close but no cigar

Butch Goring
John Tonelli
Craig Ramsay
Kelly Hrudey
Brian Propp

Players who deserve to make it, but won`t get selected when they`re eligible

Eric Lindros
Theoren Fleury

gr8haluschak 04-30-2005 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
Paul Henderson also

Yes he did score the biggest goal in Canadian history but besides that he never had a hall of fame career.

tom_servo 04-30-2005 04:02 AM

I think Fleury has a shot. He had a Bernie Federko-like career.

reckoning 04-30-2005 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom_servo
I think Fleury has a shot. He had a Bernie Federko-like career.

He should be there, but I think the committee may hold his off-ice troubles against him.

chooch* 04-30-2005 07:02 AM

Pete Mahovlich for the reasons in another thread. I agree with the first post especially Neely and Vachon.

blamebettman* 04-30-2005 10:19 AM

Bobby Smith
Steve Larmer (retired at 33, could've easily stuck around longer and compiled his stats)

Snap Wilson 04-30-2005 12:49 PM

Definitely Rogie Vachon and Mark Howe. Two of the best. Of the rest I've seen (Provost on), I wouldn't pick anyone else. I think there are too many marginal HOFers in already.

Hyped 04-30-2005 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reckoning

Players who`re close but no cigar
Brian Propp

Propp is already in the Hall...

silver_made* 04-30-2005 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyped
Propp is already in the Hall...

wrong

Stephen 04-30-2005 01:35 PM

I'm not sure I'd put Guy Carbonneau in the HOF. Yes, he was a great defensive forward, and he won a bunch of Selke Trophies and 3 Stanley Cups, but I'm really not sure if that makes him Hall worthy. I mean, would Jere Lehtinen be a candidate for the Hall of Fame? Also, I think Carbonneau's career was pretty undistinguished for the last 5 or 6 years of his career when he was just a bottom six checker.

anguscertified 04-30-2005 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reckoning
He should be there, but I think the committee may hold his off-ice troubles against him.

I don't think they will, its for honoring the best "hockey" players, not humans.

MS 04-30-2005 02:58 PM

Valeri Kharlamov, Alexander Yakushin, and Sergei Makarov all belong in the HHOF. Each dominated international hockey in their primes, and each stood out as stars against NHL competition.

Mark Howe is to me the most obvious North American bypassed. Norris finalist, First-team All-star on multiple occasions, huge career numbers when you combine his NHL and WHA statistics. Plus, like Red Kelly, he was one of the only players ever to excel both as an elite forward and an elite defender.

Paul Thompson would be a fine selection from the Veteran's committee for a forgotten star. Provost should be in if Bob Pulford is in.

Guy Carbonneau is one of the best defensive forwards ever, and should go in IMO.

Vachon is kinda dubious to me. Listing Vezinas and Cups make him look better than he actually was - the Vezina was when it was for team GAA, and was earned backing up Gump Worsley. The Cups were backing up Worsley and Dryden. Vachon had a nice run with the Kings 1973-78, but was never a first-team All-star, and never won more than 4 playoff games in a year. Only won more than 30 games in his career twice. I guess he could make it, but I understand why he hasn't. Comparable career to Vanbiesbrouck, Vernon.

kmad 04-30-2005 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtuzzi21
I don't think they will, its for honoring the best "hockey" players, not humans.

..said Pete Rose to Bud Selig

anguscertified 04-30-2005 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmad
..said Pete Rose to Bud Selig

Pete Rose is in the NHL hall-of-fame? Theo Fleury never did anything like betting on the sport, he just went a little crazy in his last few years. He never tarnished the sport, maybe just himself?

kmad 04-30-2005 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtuzzi21
Pete Rose is in the NHL hall-of-fame? Theo Fleury never did anything like betting on the sport, he just went a little crazy in his last few years. He never tarnished the sport, maybe just himself?

I was making a parallel to baseball. Pete Rose is excluded from the hall of fame because of his off-field gambling scandals, despite having over 4,000 hits.

MS 04-30-2005 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtuzzi21
Pete Rose is in the NHL hall-of-fame? Theo Fleury never did anything like betting on the sport, he just went a little crazy in his last few years. He never tarnished the sport, maybe just himself?

I suspect off-ice stuff is one of the bigger reasons Glen Anderson is not in the HHOF.

Moose Head 04-30-2005 03:48 PM

This list should begin and end with JC Tremblay. I always wonder if he was black listed because he left the Habs and joined the Nordiques in the WHA. He was one of the best d-men in the game when he left, and if he had stayed, the Habs would have had the big 4, not the big 3. He was every bit the defenseman Savard or Lapointe were.

Rather Gingerly 1* 04-30-2005 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr8haluschak
Yes he did score the biggest goal in Canadian history but besides that he never had a hall of fame career.

That says it all...the biggest goal in hockey history

Moose Head 04-30-2005 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr8haluschak
Yes he did score the biggest goal in Canadian history but besides that he never had a hall of fame career.

If guys like Shutt, Gillies and Barber got in, Henderson should as well. Combine his NHL and WHA numbers and he compares very favourable with those guys who played in virtually the same era.

kmad 04-30-2005 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
That says it all...the biggest goal in hockey history

He was a mediocre player at best. We can't let people into the hall of fame for one fluke goal.

Anyways, that team he was on is already inducted.

John Flyers Fan 04-30-2005 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Phil
This is my list of the top 5 players who arent in the Hall of Fame in the order of most deserving. Oh and by the way, surprise, surprise Neely isnt the 1st!

In order of most deserving:

#1 Rogie Vachon - I have no idea why he inst in the Hall. This may raise a few eyebrows as to him being #1 but think about it. He won the Vezina Trophy in '68, was second team all-star twice, in '75 and '77 and to top it off he had 355 wins. In comparison Terry Sawchuk had 447. He also won three Cups. Plus he played on some mediocre Kings teams and still put up good numbers. And who was in stellar in net for every game for Canada in the '76 Canada Cup? Vachon.

#2 Glenn Anderson - What more does the guy have to do? 6 playoff overtime goals? A known clutch goal scorer. 6 Cups. 498 goals. Scored 50 twice in his career. Had 100 points three times in his career. No all-star selections at Right Wing but that was more because Bossy and Kurri were there. I say put him in there no question.

#3 Rick Middleton - 5 straight years of 90 points or more, another season with 86. Scored 50 goals once, 100 points twice. Good playoff numbers. To me he's above Neely as to a guy who has to be in there. No Cups, but he played in his share of Cup finals.

#4 Cam Neely - Okay everyone stop screaming, this is why he isnt above the rest of them. Look I love Neely, very good player. And if he was in the Hall I wouldnt make a fuss, but what bothers me is the people that are willing to die just to see him in there. Why? He had 4, count them, 4 good seasons in his career. that was '88, '90, '91 and '94. Everything else is nothing to write home about. He had four second team all-star selections all in those years. That's good but is it great? I feel bad that his career was cut short, but if a guy loses his career to injuries do we put him in just because of that? If so why dont we put Geoff Courtnall in? If he gets in its not a big deal, but to all you Homers out there, face it, there are better guys than him not in there.

#5 John Tonelli - He won four Cups fo the Isles, and was the MVP of the Canada Cup in '84. He played two way Hockey very well and was twice named second all-star team. Put up 100 points once and 93 another time. My feeling is that if Clark Gilles got in there ahead of him then Tonelli should be in there. To me he was a better player.

That's it. That is my top 5. Deabte over it all you want and make up your own list.
HM goes to other guys - Dino Ciccarelli, Rick Martin, Dave Taylor, Pete Mahovolich.


I'll take Mark Howe and Brian propp over all 5 of those players, and I wouldn't induct any of them.

Big Phil 04-30-2005 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose Head
If guys like Shutt, Gillies and Barber got in, Henderson should as well. Combine his NHL and WHA numbers and he compares very favourable with those guys who played in virtually the same era.

I love Paul Henderosn, met him twice, a class act. And I as much as anybody love the '72 series and appreciate the importance of it and am very glad he saved our bacon in all the last three games. And he did have a decent career, but to compare him to Shutt, Gilles or Barber is way off. Shutt may have benefitted from Lafleur but he was still better than Henderson, as was Gilles even though I think he shouldnt be in the Hall. As for Barber, I wish you had seen him play. He was a first team all star in '76 and second in '79 and '81. His career high in points is 112. Henderson's is 60.

No knock on Paul, but the '72 team was voted the Team of the Century and is already in as a whole in the HOF. That should be good enough.


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