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-   -   After Watching or Following Leafs vs Moose (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=141334)

Pappy 04-30-2005 04:02 PM

After Watching or Following Leafs vs Moose
 
Do we really have any can't miss prospects in our system, after watching how one sided this series was can we still project guys like Carlo and Wellwood as can't miss prospects. Do we have any players in Junior, College, Europe, ect that can play for the Marlies and project them to be future Leafs. I think your going to find the scouting staff put together by Quinn has left us sorely lacking for the future, Ferguson has done some what better but his short sighted trade for Leetch has put our rebuilding schedule back at least a couple of years. I could be wrong but in the new CBA if they don't lower the URFA's to 28 from 31 it going to be very difficult to build a winner with a cap in a short period of time, as it is we will have to bite the bullet for a year to get rid of Sundin, Belfour, and Nolan's contracts you can't have that much money in three players and build quality depth, especially when you have no blue chip prospects in the system.

I was high on Carlo but with all the injuries he's had he just hasn't progressed and his size well never make him an effective D-Man in his own zone, he'll have to get to the next level with his skating and puck handling, Wellwood is a time and space player if you take it away he's not and NHL player. Steen has shown by his offensive numbers in Sweden that he's a 3rd or 4th line checker at best or he's being held back by the Swedish system, or we have another Cereda on our hands. Perhaps most of you see it differently if so, show me what I'm missing.

Mess 04-30-2005 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pappy
Perhaps most of you see it differently if so, show me what I'm missing.

Your Prozac !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Volcanologist 04-30-2005 04:30 PM

:biglaugh:

Look out, the sky is falling!

Leaf Army 04-30-2005 04:59 PM

Good ol' Red.

Mat 04-30-2005 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pappy
we will have to bite the bullet for a year to get rid of Sundin, Belfour

yeah, get "bite the bullet" to keep our best player and one of the best goalies in the league

what a shortsighted move! :biglaugh:


i agree about the leetch move, but i see no reason why we cant build a compeititve team w/o prospective depth. the cap wont be insanely low, and as is with the rollback we could still ice a fantastic team next year and if anything be better than 2004.

you "dump every good player for draft picks and rebuild because only young teams can win" people dont really look at the big picture

Pappy 04-30-2005 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat
yeah, get "bite the bullet" to keep our best player and one of the best goalies in the league

what a shortsighted move! :biglaugh:


i agree about the leetch move, but i see no reason why we cant build a compeititve team w/o prospective depth. the cap wont be insanely low, and as is with the rollback we could still ice a fantastic team next year and if anything be better than 2004.

you "dump every good player for draft picks and rebuild because only young teams can win" people dont really look at the big picture

You couldn't get anything for them just have to keep them untill their contracts are up after next year. Belfour is almost as old as Johnny Bower. :biglaugh:

Mat 04-30-2005 06:50 PM

i know you cant get "much" for them, but that doesnt mean they are worthless. they are some of the best players in the league so we have to pay the price, whats wrong with that? its not like they are dead weight. tie domi is dead weight, not sundin.

Verbal Kint* 04-30-2005 08:36 PM

Belfour will be gone soon, he'll retire. Sundin on the other hand isn't going anywhere, and I'll be willing to put money on that.

Volcanologist 04-30-2005 09:21 PM

Sundin will break the string of traded Leaf captains. I would try hard to get Sundin to renegotiate on a retirement contract, a new 4-year pact at a more reasonable rate. We want to win, he wants to stay here, it would make sense for both sides.

The big guy needs to retire a Leaf. End of story.

Leaf Lander 04-30-2005 09:25 PM

i would trade sundin in a heart beat he has been with the leafs for 10 yrs

get rid of him for somethign younger and better!

It is business he is a very good player but not a over the top great player
plus he is 34


time to say goodbye!

Douggy 04-30-2005 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat
yeah, get "bite the bullet" to keep our best player and one of the best goalies in the league

what a shortsighted move! :biglaugh:


i agree about the leetch move, but i see no reason why we cant build a compeititve team w/o prospective depth. the cap wont be insanely low, and as is with the rollback we could still ice a fantastic team next year and if anything be better than 2004.

you "dump every good player for draft picks and rebuild because only young teams can win" people dont really look at the big picture

Ironic you'd use the word shortsighted.

If you think Belfour is one of the best goalies in the world you may be right, but he won't be for more than two more seasons.

Volcanologist 04-30-2005 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
i would trade sundin in a heart beat he has been with the leafs for 10 yrs

get rid of him for somethign younger and better!

It is business he is a very good player but not a over the top great player
plus he is 34


time to say goodbye!

Ok, propose a deal.

This oughta be good...

Mess 04-30-2005 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Sundin will break the string of traded Leaf captains. I would try hard to get Sundin to renegotiate on a retirement contract, a new 4-year pact at a more reasonable rate. We want to win, he wants to stay here, it would make sense for both sides.

The big guy needs to retire a Leaf. End of story.

Food for thought ..

While that is technically possible doesn't Sundin still have 3-4 years remaining now depending on is last season counts or not ??

Also if the 24% rollback is still on the table then Mats is already giving back 1/4 of his Salary for the length of the contract .. Is he likely to give even more ??

Giving Mats the money up front almost like a buyout or bonus and renegotiating the contract are things that count against a Cap figure .. So you would take a big hit the first year and all Cap room you could not spend on other players .. Almost better to just pay him his reduced 6.8 mil now .

Wouldn't buying out Nolan on a shorter contract and less money be better then even touching Mats deal .. ??

Scoogs 04-30-2005 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
i would trade sundin in a heart beat he has been with the leafs for 10 yrs

get rid of him for somethign younger and better!

It is business he is a very good player but not a over the top great player
plus he is 34


time to say goodbye!

:shakehead :shakehead

Patty Lee 05-01-2005 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
i would trade sundin in a heart beat he has been with the leafs for 10 yrs

get rid of him for somethign younger and better!

It is business he is a very good player but not a over the top great player
plus he is 34


time to say goodbye!

Time to say good-bye, but not to Sundin.

I'm with Pep; let's see your trade propsal to get rid of Sundin and get something younger and better.

Volcanologist 05-01-2005 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
Food for thought ..

While that is technically possible doesn't Sundin still have 3-4 years remaining now depending on is last season counts or not ??

He has 2 right now, beginning with 2005-2006. Last season will come off the books, I would be shocked if it didn't.

Quote:

Also if the 24% rollback is still on the table then Mats is already giving back 1/4 of his Salary for the length of the contract .. Is he likely to give even more ??
There are many ways they could do this. I was assuming the rollback was OFF the table, btw...if it is still there then we can leave Sundin as-is. He should still get the retirement contract, it just won't be a cap issue. He's still our captain and best player until I see differently. 6.8 we can do for 2 more years.

Quote:

Wouldn't buying out Nolan on a shorter contract and less money be better then even touching Mats deal .. ??
I've already been suggesting doing something with Nolan for a long time now. I would buy him out. Honestly, that's looking like the best idea more and more. 6.5 is a ridiculous amount of cap room to spend on a guy like that.

He's 33, coming off a busted knee and an eye injury, and he's been pretty useless for us overall. Might be time to cut our losses there, as much as I love Owen when he's on.

When you look at the names out there, it doesn't make sense to have Nolan taking up such an important spot in our lineup and pay scale. Ferguson has to do something here, IMO. Our team could be so much stronger with those funds allocated elsewhere.

Patty Lee 05-01-2005 09:32 AM

Quote:

I've already been suggesting doing something with Nolan for a long time now. I would buy him out. Honestly, that's looking like the best idea more and more. 6.5 is a ridiculous amount of cap room to spend on a guy like that.

He's 33, coming off a busted knee and an eye injury, and he's been pretty useless for us overall. Might be time to cut our losses there, as much as I love Owen when he's on.
his price is too high, but we need a player of his mold, especially if Roberts isn't coming back. He's got grit and can score. Mind you, he hasn't had much luck in the PO since coming here but if the knee is fine I'd like to see him stay if they can do something to restructure the salary. (lot of big if's in there)

Pappy 05-01-2005 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master of Puppets
Belfour will be gone soon, he'll retire. Sundin on the other hand isn't going anywhere, and I'll be willing to put money on that.

If he's willing to cut his pay in half he might stay, you can't trade someone who is making 9 or 10 million in the new NHL.

Pappy 05-01-2005 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Sundin will break the string of traded Leaf captains. I would try hard to get Sundin to renegotiate on a retirement contract, a new 4-year pact at a more reasonable rate. We want to win, he wants to stay here, it would make sense for both sides.

The big guy needs to retire a Leaf. End of story.

Oh Please!
It's not like he's Red Horner or anything.

Pappy 05-01-2005 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Ok, propose a deal.

This oughta be good...

If there is a Cap in the new NHL who is going to take on a 10 million contract and give you young players back.

mooseOAK* 05-01-2005 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pappy
If there is a Cap in the new NHL who is going to take on a 10 million contract and give you young players back.

No one, that's why you keep Sundin and be happy.

Mess 05-01-2005 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepNCheese
He has 2 right now, beginning with 2005-2006. Last season will come off the books, I would be shocked if it didn't.



There are many ways they could do this. I was assuming the rollback was OFF the table, btw...if it is still there then we can leave Sundin as-is. He should still get the retirement contract, it just won't be a cap issue. He's still our captain and best player until I see differently. 6.8 we can do for 2 more years.



I've already been suggesting doing something with Nolan for a long time now. I would buy him out. Honestly, that's looking like the best idea more and more. 6.5 is a ridiculous amount of cap room to spend on a guy like that.

He's 33, coming off a busted knee and an eye injury, and he's been pretty useless for us overall. Might be time to cut our losses there, as much as I love Owen when he's on.

When you look at the names out there, it doesn't make sense to have Nolan taking up such an important spot in our lineup and pay scale. Ferguson has to do something here, IMO. Our team could be so much stronger with those funds allocated elsewhere.

Thats Fair .. Until the CBA is signed we really do not know if the year counts or the 24% exists ..

but I do agree the Nolan return is not worth the Cap money .. If you can get rid of Nolan and use his 6.5 Mil (no rollback) amount and get Lindros and Allison at 3 mil + each in the line-up it could be a huge benfit to the leafs .

Verbal Kint* 05-01-2005 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
i would trade sundin in a heart beat he has been with the leafs for 10 yrs

get rid of him for somethign younger and better!

It is business he is a very good player but not a over the top great player
plus he is 34


time to say goodbye!

No. I don't care how much my blind love for the guy is affecting this, but he's not going to be traded.

The entire city would be calling for JFJ's head. Not to mention that unlike many other aging players he's consistent, its not like he's on the decline right now.

Volcanologist 05-01-2005 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pappy
If there is a Cap in the new NHL who is going to take on a 10 million contract and give you young players back.

Like I said, propose a deal, or stop whining.

bingo_vodun 05-01-2005 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
Your Prozac !!!!!!!!!!!!!

no there has always been non cup leafs, only there was also enough FA to recover from it.

only as we consume this FA, we are off setting balance, and the balance has been offset not 0.2 degrees. and on a leauge scale that is massive!.

the end of CBA as it is now will come, the ending of this Leauge will not.

It is said the dead will rise again, and we will, only consider how many we have buried, and how many have teams, and this leauge will be reborn of that teams, as it has been. This is the circle of life, and only a few will remember what was, much as it is today.

We do not invent, we do not create, we only remember.


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