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-   -   Prospect Info: Analyzing the Philadelphia Flyers' Young Defensemen (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1415139)

ShawnTHW 04-28-2013 03:19 PM

Analyzing the Philadelphia Flyers' Young Defensemen
 
http://thehockeywriters.com/analyzin...ng-defensemen/

Kyle Phillippi is the new lead writer at TheHockeyWriters.com. This is his first piece for the site.

What do you think about the defenseman we have in our system? Who is your favorite? Who is your darkhorse? Who will bust?

I'd like to get your feedback.

LegionOfDoom91 04-28-2013 03:25 PM

I think Gus is the only one out of those four that could possibly develop into top 4 defender as a complimentary piece.

The other three are 6/7 defensemen at the NHL level at best.

Flyersfan1493 04-28-2013 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShawnTHW (Post 64842929)
http://thehockeywriters.com/analyzin...ng-defensemen/

Kyle Phillippi is the new lead writer at TheHockeyWriters.com. This is his first piece for the site.

What do you think about the defenseman we have in our system? Who is your favorite? Who is your darkhorse? Who will bust?

I'd like to get your feedback.

Nice write-up. The only thing I'd disagree with is with Lauridsen. Even though he had a nice goal against Nabokov, I doubt he'll ever be an "offensive threat". With Grossmann, Schenn, and Coburn, I also doubt that he makes the team out of camp. There are too many other players with similar skill sets already on the roster. If anything, Gustaffson's play has many penciling him in as a 5/6 defenseman next year.

TheDrizzle81 04-28-2013 03:28 PM

i was encouraged with what I saw. Gus could be a solid top 4 guy to replace Mez, and I like Laurdisen as a 6/7 depth guy. I feel much better heading into the off season with the moves they need to make than I did.

Sniped 04-28-2013 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShawnTHW (Post 64842929)
http://thehockeywriters.com/analyzin...ng-defensemen/

Kyle Phillippi is the new lead writer at TheHockeyWriters.com. This is his first piece for the site.

What do you think about the defenseman we have in our system? Who is your favorite? Who is your darkhorse? Who will bust?

I'd like to get your feedback.

Lauridsen scored against Poulin, not Nabakov. Just letting ya know if you want to change that.

Otherwise, it was a pretty good read.

ShawnTHW 04-28-2013 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniped (Post 64843609)
Lauridsen scored against Poulin, not Nabakov. Just letting ya know if you want to change that.

Otherwise, it was a pretty good read.

Thanks. Even as an editor, I still miss some mistakes here and there.

CS 04-28-2013 03:50 PM

1. I think Gustafsson, at this rate, is going to develop into a more defensively responsible version of Carle, perhaps lacking slightly in offensive abilities. That's not a big issue though, since he could really be far more sound, and he really could become a guy who can control the pace of the game a little better. He's a top 4 guy.

2. Though you didn't mention him, Gostisbehere has got to be a guy everyone is excited about. He's a steady two-way guy siding slightly toward the PMD aspect of the game. He's easily number two on any list discussing young defensemen within the organization. He's got top 4 potential definitely.

---------------------- BREAKOFF

3. I throw Manning in here. He's a physical two-way guy who can really do a lot to help a blueline. Yes, he's had a regressive year, but we all saw what happened to Bourdon's developmental schedule. I really like Manning's gameplay, and I think out of the rest he's got the 3rd best shot at becoming something significant. Reasonably he's got potential for a 4-6 guy.

4. As much as everyone loves Lauridsen, I still feel that he is what he is. The only reason I'm putting him at 4 above Bourdon and Alt is because Bourdon has some serious concussion issues to work out and Alt really regressed this past year. At best he projects to be a 5-7 guy. We'll wait and see what happens, but it is hard to believe he's on the Flyers next year unless Grossmann has problems recovering from his concussion.

5. Mark Alt. I'll throw him in here. He was raw going into college, and he is raw coming into the pro game. He's had a seriously bad regressive year, but before that year he was developing as projected. I like his abilities, but we will have to wait and see how things go for him with a full year of AHL under his belt. He can go anywhere from top 4 at the very best to absolutely nothing.

6. Bourdon vs. Alt was an interesting battle for me. Bourdon has shown some real NHL potential and has proven he can hack it more than anyone on this list not named Gustafsson. Those concussions are extremely alarming. He could be a real 4-6 guy similar to Manning, but we have to wait to see how his concussion issues progress.

---------------------- BREAKOFF

7. Konan is an interesting thing because he's the one who seemingly came out of nowhere. He was not playing particularly outstanding hockey in Glens Falls, but he definitely was not the source of their issues. I was kind of shocked he got called up for practices to be honest. He's my darkhorse, but I don't see him having the potential to be more than a 5-7 guy down the road with the likelihood being that he does not pan out.

8-15. Kessel is whatever at this point. As is Hostetter. Luukko is a patience game, but I don't see much NHL potential in him either. Suellentrop won't be signed so that's not a point to discuss either. Eddy has been a cool story, but he's an AHLer. Vasiliev, Larsson, and Willcox need more time in the pool to establish their real impact potential.

ShawnTHW 04-28-2013 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Shafer (Post 64844415)
1. I think Gustafsson, at this rate, is going to develop into a more defensively responsible version of Carle, perhaps lacking slightly in offensive abilities. That's not a big issue though, since he could really be far more sound, and he really could become a guy who can control the pace of the game a little better. He's a top 4 guy.

2. Though you didn't mention him, Gostisbehere has got to be a guy everyone is excited about. He's a steady two-way guy siding slightly toward the PMD aspect of the game. He's easily number two on any list discussing young defensemen within the organization. He's got top 4 potential definitely.

---------------------- BREAKOFF

3. I throw Manning in here. He's a physical two-way guy who can really do a lot to help a blueline. Yes, he's had a regressive year, but we all saw what happened to Bourdon's developmental schedule. I really like Manning's gameplay, and I think out of the rest he's got the 3rd best shot at becoming something significant. Reasonably he's got potential for a 4-6 guy.

4. As much as everyone loves Lauridsen, I still feel that he is what he is. The only reason I'm putting him at 4 above Bourdon and Alt is because Bourdon has some serious concussion issues to work out and Alt really regressed this past year. At best he projects to be a 5-7 guy. We'll wait and see what happens, but it is hard to believe he's on the Flyers next year unless Grossmann has problems recovering from his concussion.

5. Mark Alt. I'll throw him in here. He was raw going into college, and he is raw coming into the pro game. He's had a seriously bad regressive year, but before that year he was developing as projected. I like his abilities, but we will have to wait and see how things go for him with a full year of AHL under his belt. He can go anywhere from top 4 at the very best to absolutely nothing.

6. Bourdon vs. Alt was an interesting battle for me. Bourdon has shown some real NHL potential and has proven he can hack it more than anyone on this list not named Gustafsson. Those concussions are extremely alarming. He could be a real 4-6 guy similar to Manning, but we have to wait to see how his concussion issues progress.

---------------------- BREAKOFF

7. Konan is an interesting thing because he's the one who seemingly came out of nowhere. He was not playing particularly outstanding hockey in Glens Falls, but he definitely was not the source of their issues. I was kind of shocked he got called up for practices to be honest. He's my darkhorse, but I don't see him having the potential to be more than a 5-7 guy down the road with the likelihood being that he does not pan out.

8-15. Kessel is whatever at this point. As is Hostetter. Luukko is a patience game, but I don't see much NHL potential in him either. Suellentrop won't be signed so that's not a point to discuss either. Eddy has been a cool story, but he's an AHLer. Vasiliev, Larsson, and Willcox need more time in the pool to establish their real impact potential.

Really liked your take on each defenseman. For the piece, I wanted to focus on those prospect defenseman who played for the Flyers this season. I obviously like Gostisbehere a ton and Alt's potential, but the focus of the article is those who contributed something to the NHL team this season.

CS 04-28-2013 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShawnTHW (Post 64847103)
Really liked your take on each defenseman. For the piece, I wanted to focus on those prospect defenseman who played for the Flyers this season. I obviously like Gostisbehere a ton and Alt's potential, but the focus of the article is those who contributed something to the NHL team this season.

I understand. I think where the players stand within the organizational prospect pool is a solid balance to shed some light on the impact of the future of these defensemen as well. Then again, the careers of some of the veterans will impact their future as well.

Lauridsen is likely the most obvious case I think of. Schenn, Coburn, and Grossmann bring the defensive side of the game at a higher level than Lauridsen. If the Great Dane is going to be jumping into the lineup, it would mean that one is traded or that Grossmann struggles while trying to return from his concussion.

Meanwhile, Manning, who is smaller obviously, has the potential to be as physical and defensively responsible while bringing a much needed offensive element to the organization. That's of course also ignoring any potential future draft picks coming into the pool.

Lauridsen is in an odd situation where he's being attacked by all sides ranging from established veterans on long-term, reasonable contracts who bring his skill-set at a much higher level and prospects who have far more offensive potential while bringing that same physical game in the back-end like Manning and Bourdon.

To surmount these, he's going to need some luck and to get better.

An ideal would be for him to develop in the AHL for the next 3-4 years until we could really use him to replace one of Schenn, Coburn, or Grossmann; mostly Grossmann. That however is a long time to wait in the wings in a quickly paced front office like Philadelphia.

dats81 04-29-2013 01:31 AM

I think Lauridsen has been a pleasent surprise this year but he will likely start with the Phantoms next season.

If everyone can get healthy for next year our top-5 is Timonen, Schenn, Coburn, Grossmann, Meszaros.

That means that Gus, Gervais and Bourdon are all fighting for the #6 spot. All of them are signed, each of them would have to pass through Waivers to be sent down.
Unless someone is moved or Mesz starts the season on LTIR, Lauridsen and Manning have to be in the AHL.

CS 04-29-2013 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dats81 (Post 64881107)
I think Lauridsen has been a pleasent surprise this year but he will likely start with the Phantoms next season.

If everyone can get healthy for next year our top-5 is Timonen, Schenn, Coburn, Grossmann, Meszaros.

That means that Gus, Gervais and Bourdon are all fighting for the #6 spot. All of them are signed, each of them would have to pass through Waivers to be sent down.
Unless someone is moved or Mesz starts the season on LTIR, Lauridsen and Manning have to be in the AHL.

Gus is more of a lock for next year's team than Meszaros is at this point.

Beef Invictus 04-29-2013 02:07 AM

I'd rather put Lauridsen in the AHL for an entire season. That would do him more good than serving as a 6/7 guy.

If Gus can play like he did consistently, that's awesome. He's due a raise from his current 900k, but he hasn't done enough to make it a substantial raise and he's RFA. So if he can keep it up, we'd have a solid player with upside for cheap.

This is why it's important to develop your own Dmen, instead of just centers and 4th liners :laugh:

PALE PWNR 04-29-2013 02:14 AM

Going into next year only 2 young guys in the lineup should be Gus and Seth Jones IMO. Of course that is barring someone else standing out and playing like a beast through camp and preseason. But those are the only 2 I expect in our top 6 next year.

I'm just going to pretend he's on the team already until its definite he will not be.

BobbyClarkeFan16 04-29-2013 06:42 AM

Mark Alt is a very interesting case. This year, he had the role of shut down defender placed on him (hence the low point totals). As well, there was a personal issue he was dealing with all year, and that could also explain why this season, he seemed a little out of sorts.

The talent is there though. He's a big guy who moves incredibly well. His decision making has gotten a lot better and that's because of playing in the shut down role. He'll probably need two seasons in the AHL before he's ready, but he's a guy to be cautiously optimistic about.

DrinkFightFlyers 04-29-2013 07:06 AM

I don't think anyone in the system right now is on track to be a top 4 guy. From what I have seen or read, Gus and Ghost have a shot at being top 4, but that is best case scenario. I wouldn't pencil either of them in any time soon. Outside of those two it is fringe NHLers.

jd2210 04-29-2013 08:44 AM

I thought the Dane would need to be waived to play again in the AHL. Maybe I'm wrong. If I'm not I can't see why they would risk that.

Jtown 04-29-2013 08:48 AM

I think gus has to emerge as top 4 dman for us next year logging heavy minutes and getting pp time.

kimmo schenn
gus coburn
mez grossman

this would be ideal. I see lauridson as a 6/7 at most. Manning and konan are just bodies at this point.

Rolex 04-29-2013 09:36 AM

There will be a shake up on the blue line before training camp opens. Shenn and Timonen will be there. Grossman's concussion problems are a concern. If he's healthy, he will be at camp. I can't see anyone taking Meszaros is a trade so he will be on the third line if he is healthy. Coburn may be the one that goes is a trade for a top flight defender. Gus probably will be on the third pairing. The seventh guy could be anyone of the youngsters.

CS 04-29-2013 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jtown (Post 64887127)
I think gus has to emerge as top 4 dman for us next year logging heavy minutes and getting pp time.

kimmo schenn
gus coburn
mez grossman

this would be ideal. I see lauridson as a 6/7 at most. Manning and konan are just bodies at this point.

Honestly, I'd do that.

Use a call-up when Mesz gets hurt...but other than that, I'm willing to go into next season with that lineup and our current forward core while expecting nothing but playoffs. No Cup yet, but if Mason performs even moderately well, there's no reason we can't make the postseason with that defense.

Jumping 04-29-2013 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jtown (Post 64887127)
I think gus has to emerge as top 4 dman for us next year logging heavy minutes and getting pp time.

kimmo schenn
gus coburn
mez grossman

this would be ideal. I see lauridson as a 6/7 at most. Manning and konan are just bodies at this point.

Unfortunately, that defense can also be carved in stone for the injured list as well. It would be nice to add someone who is not made of glass.

PantherStriker 04-29-2013 11:31 AM

Any theories on why Suellentrop hasnt been signed? I've watched a good dozen or so of his games with the Generals, and he's been fantastic. Is this a case of too many players like him in the organization?

CS 04-29-2013 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PantherStriker (Post 64894435)
Any theories on why Suellentrop hasnt been signed? I've watched a good dozen or so of his games with the Generals, and he's been fantastic. Is this a case of too many players like him in the organization?

I touched upon this slightly on the new NCAA/Euro update article coming up (even though he's neither), but basically I think your theory about there being a lot of players in the organization with his skill set being somewhat correct.

Though I can't speak for the organization, there has got to be something to this. Lauridsen is a long-term project who is progressing nicely. The Flyers are likely going to try to hold onto him and develop him through the end of Grossmann's contract. At that point, he theoretically replaces Grossmann as the bottom pairing shut-down defenseman if all goes as planned (things rarely fall into place that perfectly for a front office as jittery and responsive as the Flyers' but that doesn't mean that they don't plan for patience; it just never ends up that way).

On top of that you have a physical two-way guy in Manning who, though being down this year, showed a lot of promise early. Bourdon also showed some great things, so they're going to wait and see if he can't rebound from concussion issues.

Then you have the real kicker that demonstrated to me that the Flyers weren't happy with Suellentrop's developmental pace: they drafted Willcox, Larsson, and Vasiliev in the last draft.

It also doesn't help him that Schenn, Coburn, and Grossmann are NHL players signed long-term at the position Suellentrop would hope to fill.

On top of that, he's been solid in his last year but not outstanding. We want outstanding CHL players, particularly older ones, because those are the ones with real NHL potential.

What's the point of throwing a contract Suellentrop's way at this point if you don't think there's a chance he could make the NHL. He'd have a ton of hurdles to jump.

That doesn't mean they won't go ahead and offer him a contract down the road, but I don't see it.

GoneFullHextall 04-29-2013 12:36 PM

I would play Gus and Lauridsen over Gervais and Foster any day of the week. Even in the "short sample size" I have seen enough to know that I want them in the lineup over those 2 clowns.

DrinkFightFlyers 04-29-2013 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren (Post 64898485)
I would play Gus and Lauridsen over Gervais and Foster any day of the week. Even in the "short sample size" I have seen enough to know that I want them in the lineup over those 2 clowns.

Foster I would agree with you. Gervais I think I would put on the same level as Gus and Lauridsen at this point. All three guys really bring different things to the table.

FlyersFan61290 04-29-2013 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers (Post 64898919)
Foster I would agree with you. Gervais I think I would put on the same level as Gus and Lauridsen at this point. All three guys really bring different things to the table.

Gus and Gervais bring the same things to the table and i think Gus is clearly the better player. I also consider Gus and Gervais better players then Lauridsen at this point. I know that's not saying much.

do you really think Gervais would've performed as well as Gus with 24+ minutes consistently (the end the season that's what Gus was getting) and just over 20 minutes average for the season? i sure don't

Gus only looked bad this year when paired with Gervais and i think it's because he's a complimentary player like Carle and can't carry his own pairing (though he still looked good the final two games of the season with Lilja).


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