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-   -   Player Discussion: Pavel Datsyuk A First Team All-star this year? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1415145)

The Zetterberg Era 04-28-2013 04:33 PM

Pavel Datsyuk A First Team All-star this year?
 
With Crosby missing a 1/4 of the season it is unlikely he holds down the center spot. Is this the year Datsyuk finally gets the First Team All-star nod?


Other candidates are probably Toews, E. Staal, Getzlaf, Tavares. He might get overlooked but this is probably the closest he has been in a while to maybe getting this honor and I think he has earned it this year.

The Nose 04-28-2013 04:37 PM

He should but Toews will get it because he's Canadian and beloved for his intangibles.

rx7dryver 04-28-2013 04:55 PM

Toews and Datsyuk are a draw this year. Toews gets it because of the team's success.

I would like to see Datsyuk get it over Toews just to see eddie o sick's head explode.

The Zetterberg Era 04-28-2013 05:07 PM

When you take away the generous scorer at the United Center, things get a lot more spacious in terms of Toews and Datsyuk in the big defensive categories, hope people realize that.

silkyjohnson50 04-28-2013 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 64845255)
When you take away the generous scorer at the United Center, things get a lot more spacious in terms of Toews and Datsyuk in the big defensive categories, hope people realize that.

Defensively, at least in terms of even strength play, Datsyuk has been superior with the exception of faceoffs.

Toews and Datsyuk have a near identical quality of competition, but Datsyuk has a lower GA while also having a much lower quality of teammates.

To put it into perspective, 4 Chicago forwards get scored on less than Toews. This is not necessarily surprising and not a slight since Toews plays tougher minutes. But that's what makes Datsyuk stand out. He plays the same tough even strength minutes as Toews, but nobody on Detroit gets scored on less.

From an statistical/advanced statistical standpoint, the Selke should be between Bergeron and Datsyuk, with Toews as a distant 3rd.

Obviously there's more to play without the puck than stats though. But it's really tough to make an argument against Datsyuk being better defensively than Toews.

With that being said, I wouldn't be shocked to see Toews finish higher than Datsyuk in the Selke voting this season.

joe89 04-28-2013 05:59 PM

Stamkos, the top scorer in goals and points for centers might have a word in it too.

I'd be happy enough if Pavel makes the 2nd team.

The Zetterberg Era 04-28-2013 06:02 PM

Yeah realized I forgot him afterwards, have a hard time seeing Staal, Stamkos or Giroux getting this. At least Staal has a good +/- (even if I hate the stat) on an awful team.

Have a hard time seeing both St. Louis and Stamkos on this team, and I am fairly sure St. Louis will get this honor, even he might lose out to Kane and Ovechkin.

Bench 04-28-2013 06:04 PM

I vote yes, because he already did it once this season. :sarcasm:

http://www.russianmachineneverbreaks...r-starters.jpg

rx7dryver 04-28-2013 06:05 PM

Wow, I always thought Stamkos was a winger. Turns out he is in fact a center, looked it up. Yes Stamkos would probably get the nod. This fact does not change my vote of no in the poll however.

hockeyisforeveryone 04-28-2013 06:11 PM

Pavel needs to be awarded with something for this season. I am positive he is the greatest player in the world. Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane...meh, they're all great but Dats has been UNREAL. I thought I was a fanboy before, I am now a full blown devotee.

silkyjohnson50 04-28-2013 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyisforeveryone (Post 64848293)
Pavel needs to be awarded with something for this season. I am positive he is the greatest player in the world. Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane...meh, they're all great but Dats has been UNREAL. I thought I was a fanboy before, I am now a full blown devotee.

You could make a case for him being #2, although Malkin and the newly rejuvenated Ovi may have something to say about that, but Crosby when playing is #1. He's simply too quick and hard on the puck. His skating separates him from Pav.

hockeyisforeveryone 04-28-2013 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 (Post 64848507)
You could make a case for him being #2, although Malkin and the newly rejuvenated Ovi may have something to say about that, but Crosby when playing is #1. He's simply too quick and hard on the puck. His skating separates him from Pav.

From my perspective it's Pavel's iron like strength. And smarts. His forechecking and steals in the offensive zone are the best. He is such a dangerous player. I am obsessed with the guy. I feel like every single time he touches the puck something unique happens. I watch a fair amount of NHL games and while I understand the argument of #1, 2, etc, for me I see Datsyuk do such amazing little things and play with such power that he is my clear favorite.

Datsyuk has gotten really physical this year as well. What a role model. He finishes checks all the way, big mean body checks. I thought it might have been out of frustration but I think he just plays a perfect game.

silkyjohnson50 04-28-2013 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyisforeveryone (Post 64849319)
From my perspective it's Pavel's iron like strength. And smarts. His forechecking and steals in the offensive zone are the best. He is such a dangerous player. I am obsessed with the guy. I feel like every single time he touches the puck something unique happens. I watch a fair amount of NHL games and while I understand the argument of #1, 2, etc, for me I see Datsyuk do such amazing little things and play with such power that he is my clear favorite.

Datsyuk has gotten really physical this year as well. What a role model. He finishes checks all the way, big mean body checks. I thought it might have been out of frustration but I think he just plays a perfect game.

Pav is my favorite player ever and it's been amazing watching him develop all the facets of his game. He plays the game like I've never seen before from a stylistic/skill perspective.

But offensively speaking, Crosby is similar to Datsyuk when Datsyuk is on his "A" game. The Datsyuk we seen this season in Nashville, Vancouver, and the last week of the season, Crosby has that type of impact game in and game out when he's playing. He just dominates the puck and creates opportunities on a shift by shift basis.

Datsyuk is flat out better defensively and without the puck, but his offensive game isn't consistently dominant enough to put him #1 IMO.

If Datsyuk had his "A" offensive game all of them time there's no question he'd be the best player in the world in my mind. We seen how dominant he was in the 2011 playoffs. But too many nights he plays too conservatively and doesn't attack enough.

That's just my opinion though I guess.

hockeyisforeveryone 04-28-2013 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 (Post 64849819)
Pav is my favorite player ever and it's been amazing watching him develop all the facets of his game. He plays the game like I've never seen before from a stylistic/skill perspective...

Mine too, and a lot Detroit fans as well. Thanks for the discussion, it helps clear up what I've tried to express. Just because Dats is my favorite player doesn't necessarily make him the "best". Other teams and commentators don't get to watch every shift like we do, just like I don't see all of Pitt.'s games. Crosby may very well be the best in the NHL. I'm just continually overjoyed that we have Pavel here and I wouldn't change it for the world.

I will say again though he deserves to be recognized by the league. You could say we wouldn't be in the playoffs without DD. But where would we be without the Magician?

RedWingsNow* 04-28-2013 08:04 PM

I give the nod to Toews based on head-to-head.

THis year, Toews got the better of Datsyuk in head to head matchups.

Not fair, of course, considering the linemates Datsyuk worked with. But it is what it is.

Overall, Datsyuk put up numbers well enough this year. But I felt he struggled at times (again--Babcock's idiotic lines meant Datsyuk carried a REALLY heavy burden this year).

Flowah 04-28-2013 08:22 PM

Datsyuk is playing well, but I can't help but notice that he gets knocked around more easily this year. A couple of years ago it was almost impossible to catch him falling on the ice. Now he's there "regularly." Not sure what's different. I hope it's not just his age and it's an injury that will go away, with a return to normalcy.

silkyjohnson50 04-28-2013 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flowah (Post 64855851)
Datsyuk is playing well, but I can't help but notice that he gets knocked around more easily this year. A couple of years ago it was almost impossible to catch him falling on the ice. Now he's there "regularly." Not sure what's different. I hope it's not just his age and it's an injury that will go away, with a return to normalcy.

I think that knee injury last year may have impacted his leg strength, burst, and change of direction a bit.

The Nose 04-30-2013 11:37 AM

With Toews getting so much recognition for the Hart, I'm really surprised Pavs isn't getting much attention at all.

redjax 04-30-2013 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nose (Post 64843811)
He should but Toews will get it because he's Canadian and beloved for his intangibles.

This, unfortunately.

Bench 04-30-2013 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nose (Post 64951849)
With Toews getting so much recognition for the Hart, I'm really surprised Pavs isn't getting much attention at all.

It's because the Hawks dominated all season, setting a record to start the year, and the Wings squeaked in.

MVP isn't a science.

The Nose 04-30-2013 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bench (Post 64953023)
It's because the Hawks dominated all season, setting a record to start the year, and the Wings squeaked in.

MVP isn't a science.

But without Datsyuk, we aren't close to the playoffs. Without Toews, the Hawks are still a pretty good team. I don't think Datsyuk or Toews deserve it, but Datsyuk had just as good of a season as Toews playing on a much worse team with worse linemates.

I guess it depends on how you interpret the term "MVP".

Bench 04-30-2013 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nose (Post 64953213)
I guess it depends on how you interpret the term "MVP".

True. As we are finding in the Wings MVP thread.

Is Crosby the MVP if you have Malkin to pick up the slack?

nik jr 04-30-2013 12:40 PM

i would vote for crosby. no one played at his level, and i don't think it is particularly important that he missed 12 games.

TheNextDaigle 04-30-2013 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyisforeveryone (Post 64848293)
Pavel needs to be awarded with something for this season. I am positive he is the greatest player in the world. Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane...meh, they're all great but Dats has been UNREAL. I thought I was a fanboy before, I am now a full blown devotee.

Crosby is number 1, and as far as I am concerned it is not even that difficult of a choice. If we strictly speak centers, then Datsyuk/Malkin/Toews (in no particular order) are the three next best, and then Getzlaf rounds out the top 5.

Bench 04-30-2013 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNextDaigle (Post 64956629)
Crosby is number 1, and as far as I am concerned it is not even that difficult of a choice. If we strictly speak centers, then Datsyuk/Malkin/Toews (in no particular order) are the three next best, and then Getzlaf rounds out the top 5.

And that dude Stamkos had 29 goals and 57 points.

As much as it pains me to say... Crosby is the only one that really separated himself from the pack.


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