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-   -   Proposal: BOLD moves for the Oilers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1416387)

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 04-30-2013 01:03 AM

BOLD moves for the Oilers
 
So Mactavish has thrown down the gauntlet and basically promised the fans that he will do something to speed up the build for Edmonton. I think most people know the Oilers need size up front {and on the blueline} plus a retooled bottom 6 that can compliment the kids. I think everyone also knows that the Oilers shouldn't deal too much away from their top 5-6 young building blocks that are currently with the team...

so with that said I have two BOLD trade suggestions for the team and a couple BOLD ufa signing suggestions and one BOLD buyout suggestion too.

at no cost to the team here is your plan to get good immediately and stay good for the near future too.

step 1... deal with Boston. Boston has cap issues and should be trying to make moves to get more 'easy scoring' into their lineup. They have an abundance of expensive size/character and can afford to make this BOLD move too.

Milan Lucic
the rights to Nathan Horton
the rights to Andrew Ference
and Rich Peverly

for

Edmonton first round pick 2013
Ben Eager {might become compliance buyout}
Eric Belenger {might become compliance buyout}
Ales Hesky {Edmonton retains 1/2 of his salary}
and conditional 2014 pick {first if Edmonton resigns both Horton/Ference or second if they only resign Horton or a third if they only resign Ference}

basically the deal breaks down for Boston as Lucic and his 6 mill cap hit for one season of Hemsky and then the first round pick to replace Lucic long term {Boston also uses the cap room to retain Jagr too so it is Jagr and Hemsky short term and the pick long term}... Peverly gets thrown in if Edmonton eat's 1/2 of the cap hit for Hemsky and Boston picks up the money of Belenger/Eager and possibly buys them out or buries them in the minors. Boston cant afford to resign Horton/Ference so they get some sort of pick for trading their rights to Edmonton.

As a Boston fan it will suck to see Lucic go and with Horton also it will create a large hole up front for 'grit' but any team that still dresses Chara/Thornton/McQuaid/Campbell isn't going to be 'soft' and adding Jagr/Hemsky to the top 6 will address major issues Boston has with being able to score easier goals.

moving on to the second deal for Edmonton

Zack Smith
Jared Cowan

for

Jordon Eberle
Jeff Petry

this deal is kind of a cap dump for Edmonton. Lucic/Horton will be top 6 forwards so someone has to move from Edmonton to make room both in the lineup and in the cap structure. Ottawa has an abdundance of very good young dmen but with Alfredsson about to hit retirement I think they need a sniping forward like Eberle.

I'll show how this effects the Oilers lineup in a moment but first I'll suggest 2 UFA signings, one more 'non bold' trade, and a compliance buyout to round out my plan for the BOLD makeover.

the UFA signings {in addition to Horton/Ference} would be
Mark Strait long term deal at around 5 mill
and Ryan Obyrne mid term deal at around 2.5
{if these guys can be signed for less than make it so...}

I think Horton mid term deal for around 5 and Ference mid term deal for around 2.5 gets them done too.

it's a lot of money but the numbers will work... but not if Shawn Horcorff is kept around so he becomes the compliance buyout... sorry but 5.5 is ridiculous for a 3rd line center. Nick Schultz also must go and I move him to anyone willing to take his contract since 3.5 mill is just too much for a third pairing dman.

when the dust settles the new look Oilers have Milan Lucic at 6'4 and 230, Nathan Horton at 6'2 and 230, Zack Smith at 6'2 and over 200 up front and 6'5 Ryan OByrne and 6'5 Jared Cowan on the blueline. Team size is definitely addressed.

Both Rich Peverly and Zack Smith are pretty good in the faceoff dot and Peverly is a very strong pk. The third/fourth lines pick up a couple of very useful contributors here that I think will help the other guys improve.

On defense Mark Streit becomes a bonafide number 1 and moves Justin Schultz down a peg to allow him an easier time to develop. Cowan fits right in immediately as a great compliment to Schultz/Klefbom as the team develops a good core of young dmen. Ference meanwhile is a great locker room pro's pro who will provide grit and winning experience to a young team.


now then to pull it all together... your Edmonton Oilers after my rebuild look like this...

Yakupov/Hopkins/Hall {3 first overalls... how good is that?}
Horton/Gagner/Lucic {an expensive 16 mill line but team size is addressed}
Peverly/Lander/Paajarvi {can afford a speedy smallish third line now}
Brown/Smith/Smyth {gritty character fourth line}
kid/kid {give the extra forward spots to whoever earns them}

Schultz/Streit {might not be the best pairing but these two lead for icetime}
Smid/Cowan {too bad one of these guys wasn't right handed}
OByrne/Ference {I think these two get bottom pairing mins}
kid {Klefbom might make the team?}

Dubynk should be considered a proven starter now... but Id try to get a good backup for him

the caphit ends up being in excess of 64 million but a HUGE chunk of that is 'bonuses' to yakupov/Hopkins/Schultz. if these guys earn every penny than the 2014-2015 cap number could become a problem but Ryan Smyth is coming off the books then and I would think Sam Gagner might be trade bait if cap becomes a problem down the road. When I do resign him as a rfa this year I DONT give him a ntc.

My rebuild leaves Yakupov/Hopkins/Hall/Schultz all in place as very special pieces any one of which a team would love to build around... and adds Lucic/Cowan as two better supporting 'special pieces' than Eberle/the first would be. I say this because Eberle is a great talent but too similar to Yakupov in that both are small snipers. The first will be a great player too but too late to help Edmonton get better right away in a bold manner. Lucic/Cowan are both young enough to be key contributors for the next 5-10 years but both are ready to contribute immediately to much needed size/grit issues that haunt the Oilers efforts to get better now.

this plan will mean a massive change in team chemistry/team identity but that's a good thing. Bringing in 4 players from an organization that is known for team toughness/good defensive play is a good thing. Moving out Horcorff/Hemsky the former leaders of the three-in-a-row last place finishing Oilers actually is a good thing because team chemistry/identity is a problem for these guys and the kids are at the age they need opportunity to learn from winners instead of losers.

overall... moving Eberle and the first overall and even buying out a popular nice guy like Horcorff will probably get me a lot of grief but I feel strong enough about this plan that I am going to post it. I know that its no sure thing that the team could resign Horton/Ference and get Strait and OByrne but Horton is very close with Lucic and has had some health issues. I think if you give him long term security with a 3-4 year deal he might bite. He is a Canadian boy that wants to play in a hockey market. that's why he asked for a trade out of florida origionally. Ference is from the Edmonton area and has always put a premium on being a 'family man' who is loyal to the organization he plays for. Getting a chance to settle his family down at home while he finishes his career probably would appeal to him. Strait has ties to Edmonton management and probably wants a chance to win as he finishes his career. OBryne has no special reason to agree to a deal with Edmonton but money talks and Edmonton needs the rh shot and the size so they should definitely consider paying.

Anyhow this post is a long one... and I know everyone hates long posts so I will end it here and let you all rip away if you wish. I am always curious to read more constructive counter proposals and analysis though so if anyone wants to do that, I for one would be happy to read your thoughts. Thanks

Benjamin 04-30-2013 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan (Post 64940867)
moving on to the second deal for Edmonton

Zack Smith
Jared Cowan

for

Jordon Eberle
Jeff Petry

Nope. Sens need Cowen more than Eberle.

Akonite 04-30-2013 01:18 AM

One big thing from a Boston POV: compliance buy outs can only be applied to contracts the team already had. So no trading for a player and buying them out.

For Edmonton: UFA rights are worth a 3rd for the best of them, and I don't see the point in trading for them anyways.

I would easily trade Hemsky and our 1st for Lucic, but if the Bruins lose Lucic, Horton and Ference that changes their teams identity in my eyes and I don't think they'd allow that to happen and Belanger and Eager don't compensate for that. Sneaking in Peverly doesn't really incentivize Boston IMO

Horcoff is a necessary evil. Terrible contract but everything he brings: we need. Face offs, leadership, etc.

IranCondraAffair 04-30-2013 01:37 AM

So, Ottawa downgrades an area of weakness(defence) and upgrades and area where they have a dozen NHL ready prospects(forwards).

Also, they gut their bottom 6. Not going to happen. Edit: we also add salary to a team with a budget.

Havings said that, if Gonchar retires, Ottawa would likely have interest in a guy like Petry.

CarvinSigX 04-30-2013 01:47 AM

May want to bold the actual proposals...That's quite the novel you have there.

blankall 04-30-2013 01:52 AM

If you need an entire page to explain why a proposal has value, it probably doesn't have value.

You do not get conditional firsts for RFA rights.

rasarhdasd 04-30-2013 01:52 AM

That Boston deal is pretty bad. Giving up the 7th overall for Lucic and another possible first for two UFA's would be awful. As much as the Oiler's management has a hard-on for a Lucic type player, we just can't afford Lucic at his price-tag, and I would much rather see them try and pick up Lindholm/Monahan/Nurse/Zadorov (ie; cheap options for when RNH and Yakupov start to get expensive).

Joey Moss 04-30-2013 01:58 AM

Boston one I'd think about.. Ottawa deal isn't even ****ing close. I still don't understand Sens fans when Cowen and Eberle come up together but I guess everyone likes their own players.

IranCondraAffair 04-30-2013 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey Moss (Post 64942145)
Boston one I'd think about.. Ottawa deal isn't even ****ing close. I still don't understand Sens fans when Cowen and Eberle come up together but I guess everyone likes their own players.

It has nothing to do with value.

If Vanek and Hodgson was offered for Schultz and Dubyk, would the Oiler do it? Of course not, even if they got great value, yhe team would still have too many forwards and no goaltending or defence. Sometimes value doesn't even enter into it.

Eberle is amazing. However Ottawa simply doesn't need a scoring forward when they have, literally, twelve guys ready to possibly replace Alfredsson. PLUS, Ottawa has a budget and Eberle breaks it.

Sens Rule 04-30-2013 03:57 AM

How about a different deal from Ottawa that addresses a lot of issues for the Oilers.

Ottawa deals RFA Condra - a top PKer and defensive forward and solid 3rd liner - Should sign or be qualified for like $1.5 million tops.
Greening who has one more year at $866K - Good LW that has tons of size and speed. Can play on any line... from 1st line like last year with Michalek and Spezza to 3rd line duties.
Smith - Signed long term to a very good contract. Good checking line centre with size who will fight.
Erik Gryba - Rookie 25 year old D-Man who has proven able to play 20-22 quality minutes a night with all the Sens injuries. Can surprising move the puck decently enough. He is a bottom pairing D, and always will be, but he could be a helpful physical D. He has shown he can play exceedingly well in the AHL and he is ready to be a regular and IS an NHLer.

Oilers give up NOTHING off their roster. They deal their 2015 1st rounder and 4th rounder and their 2014 2nd and 4th rounder and a 2013 3rd rounder.

Ottawa does this to clear up their bottom 6 with so many young forwards emerging and they will sign one of the better UFA wingers. As well as a top 4 or top 6 D-Man, if the right one is available. Draft picks could be used for deadline moves this year or next year and to rejuvenate prospect pool in coming years.

Edmonton gets 4 cheap, young players that are are solid defensively and who will be the kind of pieces they need to actually make the playoffs with all their good young players next year. Add a UFA to the Oilers and an emerging young D-Man prospect they already have and the Oilers look a heck of a lot better. And these guys can grow in the Oilers organization, should always be low cost even on new contracts, and all of them have experience in a winning organization and are true pros who compete hard every single shift. And Edmonton is giving up future picks which have less current value.

The Sens have too many players ready to be NHL forwards. They need to trade some of them. Getting quality picks for the future is a good idea. They can be used to trade for other prospects or deadline pickups or actually picking some players in a year or two.

JuniorNelson 04-30-2013 04:01 AM

Oil will chase free agent bigness. They will try for Clowe. I think they'd be better off with Latendresse.

If Oilers do not offer sheet Tanev they are not working the system properly!

Sens Rule 04-30-2013 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey Moss (Post 64942145)
Boston one I'd think about.. Ottawa deal isn't even ****ing close. I still don't understand Sens fans when Cowen and Eberle come up together but I guess everyone likes their own players.

Eberle has emerged already. Cowen is for sure going to emerge at that kind of level of player as soon as next year. He is so similar to a young Chara. With a couple of injuries since he was drafted and thusly a pretty small resume it is not as apparent to fans of other teams that don't watch Cowen every game just how good he already is, and will be.

Watch him in the playoffs vs Montreal... you will see why few Sens fans would trade him for ANYONE.

almostawake 04-30-2013 04:39 AM

Typo in the title. The correct spelling is 'BIZARRE'.

IrishPaulie 04-30-2013 04:56 AM

So Boston trades away a 24 year old powerforward for a 29 year old player who had a whopping 2 more goals than him this year and a 1 million cap saving so that the B's can resign a 41 year old Jagr? The 1st round picks are nice but the idea is for Boston to compete for a cup while Big Z still has some gas in the tank. This deal addresses 0.0 of Boston's needs while neutering the top-6 and trading one of our utility players in Pevs away as well. Boston has no need for Belanger and Eager so this deal could basically boil down to:

Lucic + Pevs

for

Hemsky + 2013 1st

Lucic put up 27 pts in 46 games and Hemsky who surprise surprise is injured again put up 2 more goals and 7 less points in 8 less games. Really don't see how the value of this deal shakes out.

There isn't enough mouthwash, gum or whiskey to kill the awful taste that trade leaves in my mouth.

I appreciate the work you put into your proposals and the time it must have taken you to write all of that but that deal is awful. Boston needs far more substance.

burgess1978 04-30-2013 06:21 AM

As per previous Sens responses, the Cowen/Eberle trade is fair value but doesn't address organizational need for Ottawa.

Baddkarma 04-30-2013 06:31 AM

Big no from Bs. Maybe the Oilers can Penner back and get a big forward type. Not sure EDM would part with the assets needed to get a player like Looch who is very young and far from his prime years.

Scuba-Steve 04-30-2013 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benny FTW (Post 64941341)
Nope. Sens need Cowen more than Eberle.

Yeah sure it's not like your offence was the 3rd worst in the league and your defense the 2nd best in the NHL . :help: You guys should trade for another shutdown defensemen !

Soundwave 04-30-2013 07:53 AM

Realistically Eberle or none of the Oiler kids are being dealt. The Oilers have suffered a lot to get those players and aren't going to start throwing away core pieces after only 40 some odd games together lol.

And to be fair to those kids, they were in a playoff spot as late as the trade deadline, they had a bad stretch after that which killed them.

The pieces that could be in play are Gagner, Hemsky, EDM 1st ... which is more than ample IMO to land help.

The last time I can remember a top 10 pick being dealt outright was Columbus dealing it to get Jeff Carter and recently Carolina moving theirs to get Jordan Staal. And this draft is likely deeper than those draft years. The Oilers are completely in the right to be asking for a very good player here IMO. If there isn't a great deal, I think you just pick the BPA, any one of Nichushkin, Monahan, Lindholm, Nurse, or Ristolainen would fill a large need.

Homesick 04-30-2013 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundwave (Post 64945761)
Realistically Eberle or none of the Oiler kids are being dealt. The Oilers have suffered a lot to get those players and aren't going to start throwing away core pieces after only 40 some odd games together lol.

And to be fair to those kids, they were in a playoff spot as late as the trade deadline, they had a bad stretch after that which killed them.

The pieces that could be in play are Gagner, Hemsky, EDM 1st ... which is more than ample IMO to land help.

The last time I can remember a top 10 pick being dealt outright was Columbus dealing it to get Jeff Carter and recently Carolina moving theirs to get Jordan Staal. And this draft is likely deeper than those draft years. The Oilers are completely in the right to be asking for a very good player here IMO. If there isn't a great deal, I think you just pick the BPA, any one of Nichushkin, Monahan, Lindholm, Nurse, or Ristolainen would fill a large need.

Agreed. Its not the youth that was the problem with the Oilers this year. Its the veterans like Horcoff, Smyth, Whitney, Belanger, Eager, Potter, Peckham, and Hordichuk. All of these guys had putrid seasons and should not be back.
Mactavish will be purging this team of most(hopefully all) of these players this year. You won't see blockbusters for guys like Lucic(questionable desire), and Cowen(questionable health).

TOGuy14 04-30-2013 09:01 AM

Quote:

Milan Lucic
the rights to Nathan Horton
the rights to Andrew Ference
and Rich Peverly

for

Edmonton first round pick 2013
Ben Eager {might become compliance buyout}
Eric Belenger {might become compliance buyout}
Ales Hesky {Edmonton retains 1/2 of his salary}
and conditional 2014 pick
This is brutal for Boston. Absolutely disgustingly brutal for them.

They give up Lucic and the rights to solid players,AND Rich Peverly for the privledge of a meh pick at 7, a couple of compliance buyouts and no shoulders Hemsky?

Seriously that is so awful my brain hurts right now.

If you value buyouts that much Toronto will send you Komisarek for a 2nd.

dem 04-30-2013 10:10 AM

Oilers fan here..

7th overall and MPS for Lucic

I feel thats an overpay with that dirty contract. But you gotta do what you gotta do.

hizzoner 04-30-2013 11:53 AM

Maybe the Oilers ought to be looking at Vanek--he is big, protects the puck, goes in the dirty area and scores goals/gets points. Not a fighter but not wuss either....

tempest2i 04-30-2013 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hizzoner (Post 64955935)
Maybe the Oilers ought to be looking at Vanek--he is big, protects the puck, goes in the dirty area and scores goals/gets points. Not a fighter but not wuss either....

The Oilers gave Vanek the contract he currently has via an offer sheet a number of years ago. I'm not sure Buffalo would be interested in dealing with the Oilers with respect to Vanek because of that offer sheet.

boredmale 04-30-2013 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba-Steve (Post 64945249)
Yeah sure it's not like your offence was the 3rd worst in the league and your defense the 2nd best in the NHL . :help: You guys should trade for another shutdown defensemen !

It should be pointed out it was 2nd best with Cowen being injured for all but 7 games

To be perfectly honest I am surprised it's an Oilers fan suggesting this trade. I like Cowen but if I was an Oilers fan I wouldn't want that trade. Eberle is going to be a consistent 70+ point guy for a long long time(and probably break 80 and 90 a few times to boot)

zeus3007* 04-30-2013 12:10 PM

Very bold moves indeed. The first one seems pretty unrealistic. The second I wouldn't be interested in.


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