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-   -   Cost of moving up to your 3rd overall... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1416439)

Trobes 04-30-2013 07:13 AM

Cost of moving up to your 3rd overall...
 
Sabres fan coming in peace...

What will it cost to move up to the third overall? Would a trade of Vanek, our 1st this year (8th) and one of our 2nd this year (38th) for your 1st (3rd) this year be enough?

TheGreatOutlaw 04-30-2013 07:35 AM

Most Lightning fans will disagree with me , but what about Bishop + Brewer 3rd overall for Miller Myers and your first? Salary comes back to both teams. We would take on more, but you would take on enough to keep you on the floor, but not overpay long term to any player. You get a possible starter, a top 4 d-man,veteran presence, and 3rd overall . We get a true starter and a top 4 D with major issues right now. If you want to add Stafford maybe we could add Malone. Both are similar players with similar salaries and skill sets, but who are not producing to their ability anymore. Maybe a low to mid level prospect coming back either way?

2 Weekes Notice 04-30-2013 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatOutlaw (Post 64945385)
Most Lightning fans will disagree with me , but what about Bishop + Brewer 3rd overall for Miller Myers and your first? The Salary comes back to both teams. You get a possible starter, a top 4 d-man and 3rd overall . We get a true starter and a top 4 D with major issues right now. If you want to add Stafford maybe we could add malone. Both are similar players with similar salaries and skill sets, but who are not producing to their ability anymore.

Well, you got that first part right.

The Wyzerhood 04-30-2013 08:01 AM

Why would we trade away a potential franchise player? For some reason, people feel compelled to believe we need an elite talent less than other teams?

If that wasn't clear, we're not trading the pick.

TheGreatOutlaw 04-30-2013 10:58 AM

You cannot guarantee that either of the top 3 picks will be franchise players. Miller would be the best goalie we ever had. Myers will immediately upgrade the D and be the second most talented player on it and one of the biggest. We also would be getting the 8th pick in a deep draft. Erik Gudbranson ,Zach Bogosian ,and Matt Duchene are all recent 3rd overall picks who are clearly not near franchise players at this point. I think Drouin and Mackinnon are good but guarantee franchise players is a far stretch for unproven players.

The Wyzerhood 04-30-2013 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatOutlaw (Post 64953177)
You cannot guarantee that either of the top 3 picks will be franchise players. Miller would be the best goalie we ever had. Myers will immediately upgrade the D and be the second most talented player on it and one of the biggest. We also would be getting the 8th pick in a deep draft. Erik Gudbranson ,Zach Bogosian ,and Matt Duchene are all recent 3rd overall picks who are clearly not near franchise players at this point. I think Drouin and Mackinnon are good but guarantee franchise players is a far stretch for unproven players.

:facepalm:

Who the **** said anything about Miller and Myers? The offer was an 8th and 38th for our 3rd. There's 0 incentive for us to make that deal if we have the opportunity to select what professionals consider an elite top 3. If SFY wanted Miller he would have traded for him at the deadline.

How is Duchene not a franchise type player? He was almost PPG this season and had 67 points in his rookie year all with very poor Avs teams. The other two you listed are defensemen who were never considered in the same elite level as this year's top 3. In past years, it's been two elite players at the top (2008 & 2010) or drafts that were not considered to be extremely top heavy but fairly deep throughout (2011 & 2012). You also failed to mention that Toews, Huberdeau and Galchenyuk were also drafted 3rd overall in fairly recent drafts who all had great years.

Drouin2Stamkos 04-30-2013 11:26 AM

I dont think TB will trade this pick unless its for a Dman we cant say no to. Which is unlikely to happen. I think TB takes Drouin and he takes over for MSL when he retires. Perfect would have been getting Jones but to replace MSL as easy as this is the next best scenario we could have been given. Unless a team can find a way to wow us with a Dman we cant refuse. It will be fun looking at the proposals over the next couple months though.

Follower of Yzlam 04-30-2013 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatOutlaw (Post 64945385)
Most Lightning fans will disagree with me , but what about Bishop + Brewer 3rd overall for Miller Myers and your first? Salary comes back to both teams. We would take on more, but you would take on enough to keep you on the floor, but not overpay long term to any player. You get a possible starter, a top 4 d-man,veteran presence, and 3rd overall . We get a true starter and a top 4 D with major issues right now. If you want to add Stafford maybe we could add Malone. Both are similar players with similar salaries and skill sets, but who are not producing to their ability anymore. Maybe a low to mid level prospect coming back either way?

Okay, our 3rd overall (with talent by the buttload) + a young goalie with a lot of potential + a throw-in for

A goalie on the wrong side of 30 + A defenseman who has been nothing but mediocre since his rookie year + a pick that will likely not have nearly the contribution of the #3.

That's a bad ****ing deal. Miller is still a solid goaltender, but his value is on the decline, and his production has declined since his Vezina + Olympic years.

Bishop may not win a Vezina, but he seems like he's solid, and we've got a stud goaltending prospect, maybe the best not currently in the NHL, waiting in the wings. Drouin has all the talent in the world, and if he works hard (and with mentors like Stamkos and Marty I doubt anyone is going to let him slack off), this guy could be a fixture on our top line for the next 10-15 years. Why the **** are people so eager to get rid of that?

Drouin2Stamkos 04-30-2013 12:38 PM

Its not hard to see what SY will ultimately try to do. We all know they need D. They will likely trade some of these forward prospects for the best D we can possibly get. If not wait until a good trade comes a long. This is a great group of young players and will be worth something the more they show what they are capable of. SY could benefit from being patient and maximizing his best offer down the road vs this offseason. It could come this offseason though. MSL isnt getting younger and if the team wants to make another push they may want to do it sooner than later but this teams best days are obviously in the future when these young guys are all ready and are playing in the NHL. Cant wait to see what happens.

HoseEmDown 04-30-2013 01:44 PM

We traded the #4 pick for Ruslan Fedotenko once so you never know with this franchise. We don't need a goaltender on the decline (Miller), a forward we can't fit under the cap(Vanek) or an overrated D(Myers).

Rschmitz 04-30-2013 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoseEmDown (Post 64962361)
We traded the #4 pick for Ruslan Fedotenko once so you never know with this franchise. We don't need a goaltender on the decline (Miller), a forward we can't fit under the cap(Vanek) or an overrated D(Myers).

When Feaster was GM

The Wyzerhood 04-30-2013 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rschmitz (Post 64966293)
#WhenFeasterwasGM

Fixed it for you, only because I really think that hashtag could be a thing :laugh:

Drouin2Stamkos 04-30-2013 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoseEmDown (Post 64962361)
We traded the #4 pick for Ruslan Fedotenko once so you never know with this franchise. We don't need a goaltender on the decline (Miller), a forward we can't fit under the cap(Vanek) or an overrated D(Myers).

Looked like a crap move at the time but we all know what Feds did for this team. There's nobody that wouldn't make that move again.

Doctor Drej 04-30-2013 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio (Post 64971505)
Fixed it for you, only because I really think that hashtag could be a thing :laugh:

:laugh:

let's make this happen.

MattM92 04-30-2013 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvanOberg (Post 64973911)
Looked like a crap move at the time but we all know what Feds did for this team. There's nobody that wouldn't make that move again.

Especially since the whole trade was Fedotenko+2 2nd rounders (#34 traded to Dallas for Brad Lukowich and a 7th rounder which turned into Jay Rosehill; #52 traded to SJS for 2 picks) for the 4th overall pick (Joni Pitkanen). I'd make that trade every time.

Bish Please 04-30-2013 05:48 PM

One extra bonus to that trade is Philly rushed Pitkanen in 03-04 and he was dreadful in the playoffs going -3 in 4 games with zero points vs. the Lightning in the ECF.

MattM92 04-30-2013 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death Taxes Conacher (Post 64975135)
One extra bonus to that trade is Philly rushed Pitkanen in 03-04 and he was dreadful in the playoffs going -3 in 4 games with zero points vs. the Lightning in the ECF.

There you go :laugh:

TBLHoser 04-30-2013 10:47 PM

I just can't envision trading a player such as Drouin to a division rival. Conacher yes, Drouin no.

Sky04 05-01-2013 01:19 AM

I actually wouldn't mind Myers, not for a 3rd overall obviously, but he has enormous potential that's on par with Hedman's.

I think the kid just needs a change of scenery, and if we can develop Myers properly next to Hedman, that would just be insane for the next 10 years, top pairing averaging 6'7 who can be elite at both ends would be a dream.

If we could get Myers for one of our up and coming forwards which we have in bundles, it's worth the risk.

Jacko95 05-01-2013 10:55 AM

Not many players I would think about trading for third overall. One of the few (I love him, so maybe I overrate him a little bit) would be Roman Josi, but obviously with a + like their 2nd rounder.
I think he would be the perfect partner for Hedman, is young and will even get better, while having quit a bit of experience already.

Follower of Yzlam 05-01-2013 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacko95 (Post 65023699)
Not many players I would think about trading for third overall. One of the few (I love him, so maybe I overrate him a little bit) would be Roman Josi, but obviously with a + like their 2nd rounder.
I think he would be the perfect partner for Hedman, is young and will even get better, while having quit a bit of experience already.

I would like another asset coming back, honestly, but Josi is a good player without a doubt.

Jacko95 05-01-2013 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders (Post 65028077)
I would like another asset coming back, honestly, but Josi is a good player without a doubt.

Well what would that have to be in your opinion?

If they give up Josi, I doubt they would be willing with any other defender and well their forward group doesn't offer a hell lot to look for, especially in our situation.
A minor asset that could be useful IMO would be Salomaki.A little sandpaper would be pretty good in Syracuse, though that should be good next year again with Paquette and Richard.
Rich Clune would be awesome as 4th line winger and Taylor Beck might be good as well as devensive forward (prospect).

Other than that nothing seems to be a real upgrade over anything we have.

I would be willing to pay the 3rd overall for a package of Josi 2nd rounder and Clune, but the problem is, they don't have a 2nd rounder this year. But otherwise we could couple their 2nd roudner for next year with our 2nd rounder and move up to around 22 or so and draft Müller or Hägg or somebody other.

Follower of Yzlam 05-01-2013 03:56 PM

If we trade the third for a guy like Josi, we're going to regret it. I like Josi, and would love to package Connolly or something for him, but Connolly plays with Weber. I'd look good out there playing with Weber, and I can't skate backwards.

The Wyzerhood 05-01-2013 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders (Post 65038633)
If we trade the third for a guy like Josi, we're going to regret it. I like Josi, and would love to package Connolly or something for him, but Connolly plays with Weber. I'd look good out there playing with Weber, and I can't skate backwards.

No doubt that Josi is a top pairing defenseman, but he's certainly not an elite one either (not yet anyway, I don't think he will be). I would not give up an elite level prospect for anything on the basis that Marty isn't getting any younger and it's a beautiful thing to build the base of your team on two dynamic offensive talents (Toews/Kane, Cros/Geno, Zetts/Datsyuk, Getzy/Perry etc.).

Also, players of Josi's caliber on defense can be found in later rounds since defensemen take longer to develop anyway. I would rather package prospects (I'd even consider Connolly) to land us that first pairing dman to play with Hedman.

y2kcanucks 05-06-2013 11:39 AM

Canes fans liked a similar deal, so I figured I'd ask you as well since I think Tampa is looking to improve their defense (please correct me if I'm wrong).

How would you feel about a deal around Edler + 1st round pick (20 something) for the 3rd overall pick?


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