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-   -   The Case For Keeping Ville Leino (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1417469)

Dutchess 05-01-2013 01:16 PM

The Case For Keeping Ville Leino
 
http://thehockeywriters.com/the-case...p-ville-leino/

I'm not drunk. Okay, maybe a touch but I think there's some merit for keeping him.

Jame 05-01-2013 01:18 PM

The case:
What else do we need the cap space for?

HockeyH3aven 05-01-2013 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jame (Post 65030287)
The case:
What else do we need the cap space for?

Bingo. If they trade Vanek and/or Miller there's no reason not to keep him. Even if they don't, this team isn't hurting for cap space and probably won't be for awhile.

Jacob582 05-01-2013 01:25 PM

I think he stays.

Clock 05-01-2013 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jame (Post 65030287)
The case:
What else do we need the cap space for?

That's about it.

stokes84 05-01-2013 01:29 PM

Keep him until we start getting good, then trade him.

koarl 05-01-2013 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stokes84 (Post 65030911)
Keep him until we start getting good, then trade him.

Eeevil :D

But yes, I agree on keeping him as long the capspace isn't needed.

Dutchess 05-01-2013 01:42 PM

I tried to go with more than "cap space" but yeah.

beerme1 05-01-2013 01:42 PM

If I'm not mistaken an injured player cant be bought out. Darcy was pretty evasive when asked about buying Leino out. He said he is having a procedure done on his hip but will be 100% by the start of next season. Lots to read between the lines but I suspect he stays an dbecomes a useful product on this team.

RazielMoshman 05-01-2013 02:36 PM

Give him another season/half season. I see no reason to get rid of him at this stage, we don't need the cap space for anything and we'll get next to bugger all for him.

Rowley Birkin 05-01-2013 02:40 PM

The experiment failed with Leino - that is not arguable.

However, I don't think he's a bad player. My worry is over his fitness above anything else- if he's fit he can bring something to the team IMO.

SabresAreScaryGood 05-01-2013 03:22 PM

Get rid of him. He will be 30 next year. Dump all high salary players turning 30 or over 30.

WNY to NoVA 05-01-2013 03:29 PM

#REF

#NULL

#N/A

Blank

TehDoak 05-01-2013 03:35 PM

The reasoning is simple:

Ville's buyout this year is 10,000,000
Ville's buyout next year is 7,333,333

Ville's salary next year is 4,000,000

Cost to buyout Ville this year: 10 million
Cost to have Ville play this year and buy him out next summer: 11.33 million

So, effectively, we only gain cap space and save 1.33 million in buying him out now. There is a legit chance if he has a strong season, we could move him out next summer, especially if we're willing to retain some of the cap hit/salary over the next 3 years.

And honestly...Ville is a 2nd line LW. If we trade Vanek this summer and don't add, he will likely get a chance to actually fill that role.

Chainshot 05-01-2013 03:42 PM

Another thought would be retaining him so that any cap-floor teams looking for the usual cap-high/salary-low contracts next summer could have another potential acquisition next year rather than eating up cap beyond then in the buyout. If the surgically repaired hip works and he rebounds, they may be able to keep him around. If it doesn't, there may be someone out there willing to take him purely for cap purposes.

Jame 05-01-2013 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TehDoak (Post 65037619)
The reasoning is simple:

Ville's buyout this year is 10,000,000
Ville's buyout next year is 7,333,333

Ville's salary next year is 4,000,000

Cost to buyout Ville this year: 10 million
Cost to have Ville play this year and buy him out next summer: 11.33 million

So, effectively, we only gain cap space and save 1.33 million in buying him out now. There is a legit chance if he has a strong season, we could move him out next summer, especially if we're willing to retain some of the cap hit/salary over the next 3 years.

And honestly...Ville is a 2nd line LW. If we trade Vanek this summer and don't add, he will likely get a chance to actually fill that role.

winner

cardiffgiant 05-01-2013 04:06 PM

Doaks short-term analysis of the financial impact and Chains point about him being cap high/salary low next summer are dead on. There just isn't much to be gained by buying him out now... which then brings in a possible reputational risk.

I would think that other UFAs looking at Buffalo would view trading vets like Regehr, Leopold, and Pominville to playoff teams as a positive, but would view awarding a giant contract to a player then buying him out after one bad season and an injury as a negative.

La Cosa Nostra 05-01-2013 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven (Post 65030437)
Bingo. If they trade Vanek and/or Miller there's no reason not to keep him. Even if they don't, this team isn't hurting for cap space and probably won't be for awhile.

That should be the complete opposite. If we are going to trade our 2 best/most expensive player why the hell would we keep an expensive 30+ year old player who isn't even 1/10th as good as Vanek?

If we are going full rebuild then trade everyone over 28 except Ehrhoff. If this team trades my favorite player And give his ice time to a young player I don't want to continue seeing Lameo. He's the Least deserving player to stay :shakehead You don't even need to buy him out right away, stash him in Rochester. I think our owner could afford it but he might need to ask everyone in Buffalo to put up 4 % of their yearly salary to help cover Half the cost.

CriminallyVu1gar 05-02-2013 02:06 AM

I didn't think you needed to go farther than "he's a decent possession forward on a team that is horrible, terrible, awful, monumentally bad at puck possession."

jBuds 05-02-2013 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar (Post 65089099)
I didn't think you needed to go farther than "he's a decent possession forward on a team that is horrible, terrible, awful, monumentally bad at puck possession."

Mythical observation. You're not alone in stating as much. Ineffective possession that doesn't get the puck into our zone.

To me, the message that'd be sent by forgetting the mathematics and cutting ties with a failed experiment would be greater than any savings and wasted roster spot by keeping him. I understand I am in the vast minority though ;)

CriminallyVu1gar 05-02-2013 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 65089157)
Mythical observation. You're not alone in stating as much. Ineffective possession that doesn't get the puck into our zone.

To me, the message that'd be sent by forgetting the mathematics and cutting ties with a failed experiment would be greater than any savings and wasted roster spot by keeping him. I understand I am in the vast minority though ;)

Burden of proof is all yours, link us.

jBuds 05-02-2013 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar (Post 65089271)
Burden of proof is all yours, link us.

I'm not sure what this means, but I see a guy who, when possessing the puck for a longer period of time than other forwards, does nothing noteworthy with this possession. Often times, in my eyes at least, these possessions get stalled at the offensive blueline while he's going horizontally up high at half speed.

Is there a measure of puck possession that's quantified on the Internet anywhere? I'd be curious to see some numbers regarding individual time of possession by player.

SabresAreScaryGood 05-02-2013 06:48 AM

I think I may be the only person who actually heard hockey talk at the press conference, but Darcy did say something about having a team with players the same age so they can grow together. Obviously Leino does not fit.

Jame 05-02-2013 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBuds (Post 65089349)
I'm not sure what this means, but I see a guy who, when possessing the puck for a longer period of time than other forwards, does nothing noteworthy with this possession. Often times, in my eyes at least, these possessions get stalled at the offensive blueline while he's going horizontally up high at half speed.

Is there a measure of puck possession that's quantified on the Internet anywhere? I'd be curious to see some numbers regarding individual time of possession by player.

Corsi and Fenwick

Chainshot 05-02-2013 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood (Post 65091519)
I think I may be the only person who actually heard hockey talk at the press conference, but Darcy did say something about having a team with players the same age so they can grow together. Obviously Leino does not fit.

Niether does Ott and he also mentioned talking extension with him. Not everyone has to be the same age.


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