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-   -   Kessel/Phaneuf (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1418565)

oconnor9sean 05-02-2013 06:59 PM

Kessel/Phaneuf
 
Stars fan here with a TML logistics question.

With the cap going down, and Kessel and Phanuef's contracts being up after next season, do you think the Leafs will have to choose between one or the other?

If so, who would the Leafs choose? I'm assuming Kessel because Rielly can replace Ohaneuf, but I could be wrong.

Timmy Brent* 05-02-2013 07:00 PM

better question is what is going on with your avatar

Deebo 05-02-2013 07:03 PM

I think the cap will go back up after next season. Not all the way back to 70 right away but I don't think it will be too long before it is that high again. The Leafs will be able to keep both providing they want to stay.

pcruz 05-02-2013 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deebo (Post 65124443)
I think the cap will go back up after next season. Not all the way back to 70 right away but I don't think it will be too long before it is that high again. The Leafs will be able to keep both providing they want to stay.

If the Leafs, Canadiens, Rangers and Red Wings go far into the playoffs this season I'd assume that the cap will be higher the season after next than it is right now. :naughty:

As for the question at hand, no, the Leafs won't have to choose between the 2 players, and both will likely be getting raises, although Phaneuf's raise will be marginal. Kessel will get somewhere between 2.5 and 3M raise during next season.

The team does have a lot of cap room for the next 2 years, so they're not overly concerned as of right now, and if they were to feel restrained, they have 3 players who are making a ton and could very easily be compliance buy outs.

bobbyflex 05-02-2013 07:38 PM

one thing Burke didn't get much credit for was his cap management - which he did a phenomenal job at.

Leafs will have plenty of room to accommodate extensions for both Phaneuf and Kessel if they want. The question is does management want to keep them? this playoffs should be a good indicator if we can win with these two...

7even 05-02-2013 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyflex (Post 65129227)
one thing Burke didn't get much credit for was his cap management - which he did a phenomenal job at.

Leafs will have plenty of room to accommodate extensions for both Phaneuf and Kessel if they want. The question is does management want to keep them? this playoffs should be a good indicator if we can win with these two...

Why wouldn't management want to keep their two best players? :huh:

bobbyflex 05-02-2013 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7even (Post 65129371)
Why wouldn't management want to keep their two best players? :huh:

our two best players yes. But can we win with them? the ultimate goal is the cup.

pcruz 05-02-2013 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyflex (Post 65129227)
one thing Burke didn't get much credit for was his cap management - which he did a phenomenal job at.

Leafs will have plenty of room to accommodate extensions for both Phaneuf and Kessel if they want. The question is does management want to keep them? this playoffs should be a good indicator if we can win with these two...

What did Burke get credit for I wonder?

He doesn't get credit for his trading history with the Leafs.
He doesn't get credit for his cap management.
He doesn't get credit for dumping the entire roster from the previous regime.
He doesn't get credit for accumulating draft picks and getting some prospects into the depleted system.
He doesn't get credit for drafting rather well considering the few picks he actually had.
He doesn't get credit for putting together a team/roster that made it to the playoffs in 5th in the 5th year after he was hired.

What else is there to have credit given your way as a General Manager really?

Diatomic 05-02-2013 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyflex (Post 65129695)
our two best players yes. But can we win with them? the ultimate goal is the cup.

The cup? I'm seriously hoping we just make the playoffs next year :shakehead

number72 05-02-2013 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcruz (Post 65130453)
What did Burke get credit for I wonder?

He doesn't get credit for his trading history with the Leafs.
He doesn't get credit for his cap management.
He doesn't get credit for dumping the entire roster from the previous regime.
He doesn't get credit for accumulating draft picks and getting some prospects into the depleted system.
He doesn't get credit for drafting rather well considering the few picks he actually had.
He doesn't get credit for putting together a team/roster that made it to the playoffs in 5th in the 5th year after he was hired.

What else is there to have credit given your way as a General Manager really?

How about giving Burke credit for last year's epic collapse?
Or building that team that showed up Wednesday against the Bruins?

I think he deserves credit for the good and the bad.

Pyromaniac3 05-02-2013 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyflex (Post 65129695)
our two best players yes. But can we win with them? the ultimate goal is the cup.

You don't gut out your best players if you didn't actually build around them.

darrylsittler27 05-02-2013 11:22 PM

After next season...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deebo (Post 65124443)
I think the cap will go back up after next season. Not all the way back to 70 right away but I don't think it will be too long before it is that high again. The Leafs will be able to keep both providing they want to stay.

We will know who to replace.If the Leafs miss the playoffs,neither will be back.

FlareKnight 05-02-2013 11:26 PM

I'm sure the Leafs will be able to retain both. The cap shouldn't take long to bounce right back up again after next season. Phaneuf as well is already a pretty high cap hit so shouldn't be a hugely different contract for him. Will have to add a few million to Kessel's yearly income though :).

Both are going to be important to this team going forward. Just a matter of putting the right pieces in around them. I can't see the team choosing one over the other.

darrylsittler27 05-02-2013 11:26 PM

What credit?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by number72 (Post 65144727)
How about giving Burke credit for last year's epic collapse?
Or building that team that showed up Wednesday against the Bruins?

I think he deserves credit for the good and the bad.

Every GM makes the playoffs every 4 years.Would we have made it in a 82 game season? Most likely this team is built around the wrong 2 guys,this year's playoffs will determine that,once and for all.

jakapono24 05-04-2013 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 (Post 65160463)
Every GM makes the playoffs every 4 years.Would we have made it in a 82 game season? Most likely this team is built around the wrong 2 guys,this year's playoffs will determine that,once and for all.

It won't determine it once and for all. I'm not too sure why you feel that way, but I think your question is a valid one (would we make the playoffs in 82 games). I'm fairly confident our percentages would have regressed to the mean, and as an espn article showed (I'll link it at the bottom), with normal output we would have been in the thick of the lottery. I'm hoping the fairytale continues, but in reality this team had made few changes from the team that drafted 5th overall last year, so it's odd how we could call them legitimate contenders.

MapleLeafsFan75 05-04-2013 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyflex (Post 65129227)
one thing Burke didn't get much credit for was his cap management - which he did a phenomenal job at.

Leafs will have plenty of room to accommodate extensions for both Phaneuf and Kessel if they want. The question is does management want to keep them? this playoffs should be a good indicator if we can win with these two...

Without a doubt Burke did do a great job with his cap managment. It could have been real easy for him to give out those long term contracts since all the top UFA's were getting them, although he was right that the days of 10+ year contracts would be no more in the new CBA.

Hopefully we can re-sign both Phaneuf and Kessel because both are major reasons why the Leafs were able to win this season. Now this might not sound like the best idea right now, but what if they don't re-sign Tyler Bozak and use whatever money he would get to re-sign Phaneuf and Kessel. Would that help their cap situation in the future?

Parkdale 05-04-2013 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER (Post 65276507)
Without a doubt Burke did do a great job with his cap managment. It could have been real easy for him to give out those long term contracts since all the top UFA's were getting them, although he was right that the days of 10+ year contracts would be no more in the new CBA.

Hopefully we can re-sign both Phaneuf and Kessel because both are major reasons why the Leafs were able to win this season. Now this might not sound like the best idea right now, but what if they don't re-sign Tyler Bozak and use whatever money he would get to re-sign Phaneuf and Kessel. Would that help their cap situation in the future?

Phaneuf and Kessel are the two best players at their position on the current Leafs. But in this hard cap system, getting them both resigned at the right numbers (cap and term) will be critical to the team's long term success (or lack thereof). The higher the numbers, the less flexibility the team will have to have other quality signings. That means that the team has to establish a number that if exceeded, the Leafs are prepared to walk away from one or both of these players. The person tasked with finding the right numbers is the GM...Nonis. I'm sure he will get lots of advice from this board over the next year:) My own view is that Kessel should get priority over Phaneuf if we could keep only one.


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