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-   -   Concern With Bozak's Lack of Offense? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1419293)

Dutchess 05-03-2013 12:06 PM

Concern With Bozak's Lack of Offense?
 
http://thefarmclub.net/2013/05/03/sh...ve-production/

I've never been a big fan of the guy and there are fans on the Sabres board suggesting we pay him. Based on what I read, that would make me a sad panda.

GordieHoweHatTrick 05-03-2013 12:15 PM

In Short: He's not worth it.

He's never played away from his BFF Phil Kessel so there should be some concern his production may not be more than that of a 25-30 point center playing with lesser linemates.

Suntouchable13 05-03-2013 12:25 PM

I think shelling out and paying him 5+M would be a mistake. You can't have 10.5 M tied up in Grabo and Bozak. 2 number 2 Cs at best. Sure, they could amnesty Grabo but then proceed to give Bozak the same deal? Makes no sense. I hope they don't do it. Even if they win the Cup this year, I wouldn't want Bozak at 5 M on the cap.

Volcanologist 05-03-2013 12:41 PM

Especially with Grabo's contract looking worse by the day, I really think it would be a mistake to give a big contract to a guy who can't do better than 50 points playing with Phil Kessel all year. Especially one who is pretty weak without the puck.

Mess 05-03-2013 12:54 PM

Biggest problem with Bozak is he is miscased in Toronto due to a well documented Leafs weakness at center.

He is forced into a 1st line role, playing with Kessel for lack of better options for the Leafs at present, and benefiting from that. Due to that situation of being used on the top line his stats are greater and his contract demands will be associated with his need and contribution to the Leafs. He's not a bad player and in fact useful at times, however he isn't the long-term solution to Leafs top center spot.

As a UFA very few if any other teams would be seeking out Bozak as their #1 center and paying him accordingly, so Leafs have to be careful not to do the same.

kesleaf 05-03-2013 12:54 PM

Agreed with the above points. If he asks anything more than $2.5m/year, then nonis should send him on his way. I think $2.5m/3years is an okay contract for the guy. He's a good player no doubt. Would make a heck of a 3rd line center. Amazing at faceoffs this year too.

Singh 05-03-2013 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volcanologist (Post 65184203)
Especially with Grabo's contract looking worse by the day, I really think it would be a mistake to give a big contract to a guy who can't do better than 50 points playing with Phil Kessel all year. Especially one who is pretty weak without the puck.

Agree with you on all points, but not on your assessment of Grabbo and his salary. The only reason Grabbo had an underwhelming offensive season (and thus seemingly inflated salary) is because of how he was used by Carlyle. Incredibly tough minutes, largely used in DZone starts, and given sub-par line mates for most of the season. Even considering all of this, he still had decent possession numbers, though not the output we are used to.

The first playoff game saw Grabbo playing more of his original role as a two way offensive force - playing more OZone starts, weaker comp, and better linemates - all amounting to being one of the better Leafs out there.

Hopefully Carlyle saw that and plays him effectively, but I'm not holding my breath for Carlyle to make a rational personnel decision.

Bozak is not a 1C, he doesn't have the offensive IQ or defensive ability. At best he is a FO specialist. And for that, I don't mind if the Leafs just let him walk, push up Kadri to 1C, put Grabbo back as a 2C, McClement as 3C and one of the Marlies kids as 4C.

BonMorrison 05-03-2013 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singh (Post 65186447)
Bozak is not a 1C, he doesn't have the offensive IQ or defensive ability. At best he is a FO specialist. And for that, I don't mind if the Leafs just let him walk, push up Kadri to 1C, put Grabbo back as a 2C, McClement as 3C and one of the Marlies kids as 4C.

I agree he's not a #1C but Bozak has an underrated hockey IQ, he's one of the smartest players on the team. He is excellent at reading plays and is generally always in the right position - his problem is his finish.

Diatomic 05-03-2013 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonMorrison (Post 65186577)
I agree he's not a #1C but Bozak has an underrated hockey IQ, he's one of the smartest players on the team. He is excellent at reading plays and is generally always in the right position - his problem is his finish.

His shooting percentage is one of the highest in the team, its near 20%. He can finish fine. Not hard finishing when you have the 6th highest point scorer in the NHL in your line, and one heck of a playmaker. Bozak can't put up points, and he can't keep up with the wingers on the 1st line, simple as that.

Singh 05-03-2013 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonMorrison (Post 65186577)
I agree he's not a #1C but Bozak has an underrated hockey IQ, he's one of the smartest players on the team. He is excellent at reading plays and is generally always in the right position - his problem is his finish.

Bozak is largely a passenger on the first line, and is carried by Kessel and whoever the other winger is (last year Lupul, this year JVR). If one of Bozak's issues is finish, then I would argue that is because he lacks offensive IQ necessary to be a finisher in the NHL.

I can't find the stat now, but Bozak is rarely in on goals generated by the first line (relative to the other line mates out at the time). Offensive production by the top line is happening in spite of Bozak, not because of him. Take Bozak out of the equation and Kessel and JVR will continue to produce as they are, if not better when an improvement is made at 1C.

To be a 1C between Kessel and JVR and still only have as many points as Bozak generates is fairly glaring evidence that he is not an underrated offensive player. In fact, it may be said that he is overrated.

Garbs 05-03-2013 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonMorrison (Post 65186577)
I agree he's not a #1C but Bozak has an underrated hockey IQ, he's one of the smartest players on the team. He is excellent at reading plays and is generally always in the right position - his problem is his finish.

You're mistaking Bozak being positionally sound with him having a high hockey IQ. He doesn't have one.

chilfactor 05-03-2013 02:20 PM

Bozak is going to Dominic Moore his way out of Toronto. There's no way I'd pay him close to 5 mil per season. To me he's a 3rd line, 2nd line C at best who should get somehwere in the neighborhood of 3 mil

DeathToAllButMetal 05-03-2013 02:52 PM

The stupidest part of this non-stop Bozak bashing is about Kessel. Okay, I agree that Bozak is the weakest player on that first line. But how exactly is Bozak hurting production? Acting like Bozak is messing things up ignores how Kessel has turned into a PPG winger playing with Bozak as his centre. Unless you think that Kessel would be scoring at a 1.5 PPG pace with a better centre.

This team has far more serious problems than Bozak. I won't be at all concerned if the Leafs give him $4-4.5m. That's a reasonable price for all that he brings to the table these days.

Singh 05-03-2013 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal (Post 65192295)
The stupidest part of this non-stop Bozak bashing is about Kessel. Okay, I agree that Bozak is the weakest player on that first line. But how exactly is Bozak hurting production? Acting like Bozak is messing things up ignores how Kessel has turned into a PPG winger playing with Bozak as his centre. Unless you think that Kessel would be scoring at a 1.5 PPG pace with a better centre.

This team has far more serious problems than Bozak. I won't be at all concerned if the Leafs give him $4-4.5m. That's a reasonable price for all that he brings to the table these days.

Bozak may not hurt production, but he definitely does not promote it. We don't have to pay Bozak anything. Let him walk, and have kadri easily replace him.

Kessel is a ppg player in spite of Bozak, not because of him.

veedubn1 05-03-2013 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal (Post 65192295)
The stupidest part of this non-stop Bozak bashing is about Kessel. Okay, I agree that Bozak is the weakest player on that first line. But how exactly is Bozak hurting production? Acting like Bozak is messing things up ignores how Kessel has turned into a PPG winger playing with Bozak as his centre. Unless you think that Kessel would be scoring at a 1.5 PPG pace with a better centre.

This team has far more serious problems than Bozak. I won't be at all concerned if the Leafs give him $4-4.5m. That's a reasonable price for all that he brings to the table these days.

Kessel's production would go through the roof with if he played with someone like Getzlaf.

Bozak isn't great at finding seams, struggles at making big plays at high speeds... but does the rest of his job admirably.

$4-4.5m is a little more than he's worth... but with Kadri cementing himself in a top 6 role, that's way too much for us to pay Bozak who isn't an ideal #1C. And if Kadri becomes that #1C, our #2C better be MUCH larger and far more physical than Bozak.

If Nonis re-signs Bozak without moving Grabo first, it's a HUGE mistake. You can't have $15m tied up in 3 centers, none of which are a true #1C... you just can't.

Rare Jewel 05-03-2013 03:21 PM

3.25 is my limit with him.


I do like him, His face offs and PKing are of great help to the team; But we can't overpay another one of our centermen.

Earth Rocker 05-03-2013 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rare Jewel (Post 65194269)
3.25 is my limit with him.


I do like him, His face offs and PKing are of great help to the team; But we can't overpay another one of our centermen.

This,

Bozak is a good player at the right price and in the right role. He is above average and 3-3.5 mil is fair.

Frelimo 05-03-2013 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbs (Post 65187805)
You're mistaking Bozak being positionally sound with him having a high hockey IQ. He doesn't have one.

Could you explain what you mean by hockey IQ? I was always thought it meant the ability to make smart plays and being positionally sound is part of that.

pooleboy 05-03-2013 05:28 PM

if we pay him more than 3 ima be pissed. he isn't worth more than 2.5 imo

ErnieLeafs 05-03-2013 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frelimo (Post 65203259)
Could you explain what you mean by hockey IQ? I was always thought it meant the ability to make smart plays and being positionally sound is part of that.

Hockey IQ is a loaded term, that just about every professional scout or coach sees differently. You'd be hard pressed to find a consensus on it.

It's anticipation, calculated projection at high speed, being around the puck at key times, and when they say "the puck just seems to follow him", that's part of it too. It's knowing proper angles, and it's a ton of things.

Many of these things, Bozak is not, nor does he possess them. He's not necessarily a low IQ player, but he doesn't have great hockey sense at all.

Nizdizzle 05-03-2013 06:06 PM

I think 3.5 for Bozak is fair, 4 is the high end that I'd be disappointed with, but could stomach. Anything above that just seems ridiculous to me.

We'll never be able to afford a #1 C if we keep paying our #2 and #3 C's like Grabovski.

rraymondo316 05-03-2013 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooleboy (Post 65203327)
if we pay him more than 3 ima be pissed. he isn't worth more than 2.5 imo

This^^

Its INSANE that people are ok giving a player thats never even hit 50 points 5 million a year!!

DionPhaneuf3 05-04-2013 02:09 AM

It's obvious hes not a line 1 center. He's an over rated faceoff man. He played with Kessel (back to back top 10 in scoring) Lupul, JVR . All of those players put up respectable offensive numbers, bozak not. He's barely scoring when hes surrounded by stars. You take Kessel, Lupul, JVR off his wing, hes at most a 20point guy. No more than 2.5mil to keep him

LEAFANFORLIFE23 05-04-2013 03:56 AM

Bozak absolutely SUCKS I CANT WAIT for the day that I don't have to watch him drag down the top line. Bring in Mike Ribeiro and I HATE Mike Ribeiro but at least that guy has talent

CreeksideStrangler 05-04-2013 08:44 AM

I would be willing to give Ribeiro a 3 year 4.5 m deal over resigning Bozak.


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