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-   -   Salary Cap: Stalberg vs Bickell (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1421099)

Roof Daddy 05-05-2013 10:09 AM

Stalberg vs Bickell
 
Oiler fan here, just curious which one of these guys you keep, as well as for how much. Also, what would you want for negotiating rights at the draft if you know you're not going to re-sign one? What if both said they want to go UFA? ANH 2nd for both? EDM 5th for one? I'm thinking each one gets at least 2.5mil per, maybe 3. Any insight would be nice.

Ujjy 05-05-2013 10:37 AM

I think most of the responses will be 50/50. Stalberg has the speed, Bickell has the size, but they both have grit. If neither gets signed, we have some guys down in the AHL who can enter the lineup like Morin, Hayes, Pirri, and Smith. As for the rights stuff, I'm horrible with trades so I'll stay out of it.

TheDoorDoctor 05-05-2013 10:46 AM

I would rather bickell personally, no one can match stalbergs speed but bickell is more consistent. Stalberg disappears to often.

IU Hawks fan 05-05-2013 10:55 AM

Both.

Dump Frolik and Bolland - PROFIT!

sketch22 05-05-2013 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof Daddy (Post 65323133)
I'm thinking each one gets at least 2.5mil per, maybe 3. Any insight would be nice.

Bickell might sign around there. Stalberg should get quite a bit more. A 6'3", 20 goal winger, with blazing speed. He will get top 6 money from some team. I would be extremely surprised if he signed for less than 4 mil. I'm thinking he gets around 4.5 - 5 mil for 3-4 years.

UsernameWasTaken 05-05-2013 11:40 AM

I would keep Stalberg of the two - a better and more valuable player. I find Bickell totally replaceable - and would rather just bring someone up from our system than to waste any cap space on Bickell.

Judrix 05-05-2013 12:09 PM

I would do as someone above said. Get rid of Bolland...yet another wasted year from him. If I had to choose, it would be Stalberg quite easily.

stingo 05-05-2013 12:14 PM

Stalberg.

Illinihockey 05-05-2013 12:25 PM

I love the idea of moving Bolland and Frolik, buying out Montador and Olesz. Keep Our third line together and promote guys from Rockford.

LandofLincoln 05-05-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof Daddy (Post 65323133)
Oiler fan here, just curious which one of these guys you keep, as well as for how much. Also, what would you want for negotiating rights at the draft if you know you're not going to re-sign one? What if both said they want to go UFA? ANH 2nd for both? EDM 5th for one? I'm thinking each one gets at least 2.5mil per, maybe 3. Any insight would be nice.

There are several directions Chicago could go. If Chicago parts ways with Bolland & Frolik they could keep both Stalberg & Bickell.

I expect Stalberg to be gone. Stalberg's range is 4 million a season. Regardless of what Kopecky made Stalberg is minimum 3.5 a season low side. I think Chicago would have to offer 3.5 to keep him and they will not offer that. He might be able to squeeze a 4 year deal 4.25 for 4 years = 17 million but not coming from Chicago.


Offering a 5th is crazy. Troy Brouwer got Chicago a first rounder. Stalberg is worth a very high 2nd round pick if not low first rounder. I was actually thinking if Chicago moved their 1st rounder and Stalberg together they would be picking between 7th-10th in round one.


I think Bickell will sign a three year deal something like 2.5, 2.75, 2.75 to stay with the Hawks. 8 million for 3 years. He should test the market just to keep the Hawks honest.

Bickell is worth a high 3rd rounder.

Illinihockey 05-05-2013 12:53 PM

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Brandon Saad ($0.894m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
Patrick Sharp ($5.900m) / Andrew Shaw ($0.578m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Viktor Stalberg ($3.750m) / Marcus Kruger ($1.501m) / Bryan Bickell ($3.500m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m) / Ben Smith ($0.563m) / Jeremy Morin ($0.887m)
Brandon Bollig ($0.575m) / Brandon Pirri ($0.870m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Brent Seabrook ($5.800m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m) / Johnny Oduya ($3.383m)
Sheldon Brookbank ($1.250m) / Nick Leddy ($2.750m)
Adam Clendening ($0.925m) /
GOALTENDERS
Corey Crawford ($2.667m)
OTHER
Buyout: Rostislav Olesz ($0.000m)
Buyout: Steve Montador ($0.000m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (0.089% of upper limit)
Michael Frolik ($0.023mó1.0%) Dave Bolland ($0.034mó1.0%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,586,878; BONUSES: $510,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,223,122

Have to add a low cost goalie

Illinihockey 05-05-2013 12:54 PM

That screwed my roster up, but those are the players

DisgruntledHawkFan 05-05-2013 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandofLincoln (Post 65335779)
There are several directions Chicago could go. If Chicago parts ways with Bolland & Frolik they could keep both Stalberg & Bickell.

I expect Stalberg to be gone. Stalberg's range is 4 million a season. Regardless of what Kopecky made Stalberg is minimum 3.5 a season low side. I think Chicago would have to offer 3.5 to keep him and they will not offer that. He might be able to squeeze a 4 year deal 4.25 for 4 years = 17 million but not coming from Chicago.


Offering a 5th is crazy. Troy Brouwer got Chicago a first rounder. Stalberg is worth a very high 2nd round pick if not low first rounder. I was actually thinking if Chicago moved their 1st rounder and Stalberg together they would be picking between 7th-10th in round one.


I think Bickell will sign a three year deal something like 2.5, 2.75, 2.75 to stay with the Hawks. 8 million for 3 years. He should test the market just to keep the Hawks honest.

Bickell is worth a high 3rd rounder.

Brouwer was a RFA...

Blackhawkswincup 05-05-2013 12:59 PM

Hawks cant afford to invest 3M+ in 3rd liners on long contracts going forward with cap and depth in system

If the Hawks try to keep one of them then it should be Bickell because of physical game

DisgruntledHawkFan 05-05-2013 01:02 PM

I'd be very wary of giving a guy with commitment issues a long term deal.

zac 05-05-2013 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illinihockey (Post 65333423)
I love the idea of moving Bolland and Frolik, buying out Montador and Olesz. Keep Our third line together and promote guys from Rockford.

I agree with much of what you said above and I'd also be looking hard to shop Seabrook before his value deteriorates. For most of the last 3+ seasons he has not played near the level of a 5.8 million dollar a year defensmen. I'm not as up to date on pending UFAs and spend even less time trying to find viable trade partners but I'd at least see what's out there. I'd also throw Sharp out there as well, but more from a feeler perspective. If someone makes a stupendous offer I'd move on it, if not hold on to him. But for me Bolland, Seabrook, and Carcillo should be moved (or bought out/demoted in Carcillo's case) if at all possible.

As to the OP's question I'd take Stalberg and it's not even close. Speed is unparalleled, but he's made profound leaps in defensive aptitude, puck carrying skills, and cycling abilities that really make him an invaluable player. He's still not very good at corralling great passes and turning them into goals, but his shot is also much better than it was when he got here. Not only do I think Stalberg's a better player now, but I also think he can continue to improve moreso than Bickell. He'll be the rare case of a player that enters his prime in his late 20s, and due to his gamebreaking speed, will prolong his prime into his 30s. Right now he's easily a 2nd line talent that can play on all three lines, depending on the personnel (if a team needs a sniper on the top line Vik does not fit the bill).

LandofLincoln 05-05-2013 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan (Post 65336471)
Brouwer was a RFA...



Good point about UFA's not sure what they can get. Might have to be a sign and trade type scenario. It just seems wrong to get a 5th for Stalberg and I think Stan can figure out a way to get more. I hope?

zac 05-05-2013 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup (Post 65336531)
Hawks cant afford to invest 3M+ in 3rd liners on long contracts going forward with cap and depth in system

If the Hawks try to keep one of them then it should be Bickell because of physical game

Just because he plays there (much like Ladd) doesn't mean that he's a 3rd line player.

Barring some unforeseen development, resign Stalberg and put him on the 2nd line (where he now belongs). Move Sharp to center, and have Kane on the right wing. Stalberg's speed and cycling prowess along with Kane's vision and Sharp's shot should make for a lethal line (not to mention we wouldn't need him to snipe on that line). Let Shaw remain on the 3rd line, and promote from within to round it out.

There's definitely going to be a contract limit that dictates whether or not an extension is feasible, but if we CAN make it work without totally dicking our selves then I think we do it. If we let Vik walk without making a true effort on resigning him I think we'd regret it for a long time.

DisgruntledHawkFan 05-05-2013 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandofLincoln (Post 65337065)
Good point about UFA's not sure what they can get. Might have to be a sign and trade type scenario. It just seems wrong to get a 5th for Stalberg and I think Stan can figure out a way to get more. I hope?

If we let either walk and we get a fifth I'd be happy. Sign and trades? This isn't the NBA.

LandofLincoln 05-05-2013 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zac (Post 65336781)
I agree with much of what you said above and I'd also be looking hard to shop Seabrook before his value deteriorates. For most of the last 3+ seasons he has not played near the level of a 5.8 million dollar a year defensmen. I'm not as up to date on pending UFAs and spend even less time trying to find viable trade partners but I'd at least see what's out there. I'd also throw Sharp out there as well, but more from a feeler perspective. If someone makes a stupendous offer I'd move on it, if not hold on to him. But for me Bolland, Seabrook, and Carcillo should be moved (or bought out/demoted in Carcillo's case) if at all possible.

As to the OP's question I'd take Stalberg and it's not even close. Speed is unparalleled, but he's made profound leaps in defensive aptitude, puck carrying skills, and cycling abilities that really make him an invaluable player. He's still not very good at corralling great passes and turning them into goals, but his shot is also much better than it was when he got here. Not only do I think Stalberg's a better player now, but I also think he can continue to improve moreso than Bickell. He'll be the rare case of a player that enters his prime in his late 20s, and due to his gamebreaking speed, will prolong his prime into his 30s. Right now he's easily a 2nd line talent that can play on all three lines, depending on the personnel (if a team needs a sniper on the top line Vik does not fit the bill).

Finally someone has the stones to say they would consider shopping Seabrook. Seabrook, Bolland, Stalberg to Boston for David Krejci and Dougie Hamilton

HockeySensible 05-05-2013 01:19 PM

I'd keep Bickell, 10 times out of 10. He's not as liable defensively, and if he's not scoring, he can still provide grit. When Stalberg's not scoring, he's not doing much of anything. Very few players can skate as fast as him, so I don't even see a point in brining up his speed. Just because his speed isn't replaceable, doesn't mean he's not.

For next year, I'd go with:

Saad - Toews - Hossa
Sharp - LeBlanc - Kane
Bickell - Bolland - Morin
Shaw - Kruger - Smith
Bollig/Carcillo

Keith - Hammer
Leddy - Seabrook
Oduya - Brookbank
Stanton

Crawford
UFA/Emery

HockeySensible 05-05-2013 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zac (Post 65336781)
I agree with much of what you said above and I'd also be looking hard to shop Seabrook before his value deteriorates. For most of the last 3+ seasons he has not played near the level of a 5.8 million dollar a year defensmen. I'm not as up to date on pending UFAs and spend even less time trying to find viable trade partners but I'd at least see what's out there. I'd also throw Sharp out there as well, but more from a feeler perspective. If someone makes a stupendous offer I'd move on it, if not hold on to him. But for me Bolland, Seabrook, and Carcillo should be moved (or bought out/demoted in Carcillo's case) if at all possible.

As to the OP's question I'd take Stalberg and it's not even close. Speed is unparalleled, but he's made profound leaps in defensive aptitude, puck carrying skills, and cycling abilities that really make him an invaluable player. He's still not very good at corralling great passes and turning them into goals, but his shot is also much better than it was when he got here. Not only do I think Stalberg's a better player now, but I also think he can continue to improve moreso than Bickell. He'll be the rare case of a player that enters his prime in his late 20s, and due to his gamebreaking speed, will prolong his prime into his 30s. Right now he's easily a 2nd line talent that can play on all three lines, depending on the personnel (if a team needs a sniper on the top line Vik does not fit the bill).

Dah ****?

No, seriously.. Dah ****?

Seabrook has a "poor" year, and now all of a sudden he's been bad for most of the past 3 years? Are you kidding me? It was just last year that people on this board were saying Seabrook, not Keith, was the Hawks best Dman. I don't even..

Blackhawkswincup 05-05-2013 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossTheBoss (Post 65338311)
I'd keep Bickell, 10 times out of 10. He's not as liable defensively, and if he's not scoring, he can still provide grit. When Stalberg's not scoring, he's not doing much of anything. Very few players can skate as fast as him, so I don't even see a point in brining up his speed. Just because his speed isn't replaceable, doesn't mean he's not.

For next year, I'd go with:

Saad - Toews - Hossa
Sharp - LeBlanc - Kane
Bickell - Bolland - Morin
Shaw - Kruger - Smith
Bollig/Carcillo

Keith - Hammer
Leddy - Seabrook
Oduya - Brookbank
Stanton

Crawford
UFA/Emery

What on earth has Leblanc done to warrant being given the #2 C role?

Blackhawkswincup 05-05-2013 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandofLincoln (Post 65338087)
Finally someone has the stones to say they would consider shopping Seabrook. Seabrook, Bolland, Stalberg to Boston for David Krejci and Dougie Hamilton

Bruins would laugh hanging up phone

Bolland has negative value at this point and Stalberg is UFA

They aren't giving up there #1 C + best young dman for Seabrook

HockeySensible 05-05-2013 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup (Post 65341991)
What on earth has Leblanc done to warrant being given the #2 C role?

As opposed to, what on earth has Pirri done? One won the AHL scoring title, then looked bad in their NHL game. The other won the Hobey Baker, and looked good in their NHL games.

LeBlanc's older, stronger, better defensively. If Pirri wins the spot, he wins the spot, but I think LeBlanc will, so I put him there.


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