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-   -   Why Enroth is the Answer in the Post-Miller Era (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1429457)

Dutchess 05-14-2013 04:14 PM

Why Enroth is the Answer in the Post-Miller Era
 
http://thehockeywriters.com/jhonas-e...art-in-201314/

I know some were on his bandwagon (me included) but the Sabres should feel pretty good if he's the man for next year.

Zman5778 05-14-2013 04:29 PM

Enroth's even strength save % just isn't sustainable in any way, shape or form.

It's also a bit startling how Jhonas isn't (in limited work, mind you) as good on the PP -- and I think it directly relates to his size. There's more time to set up an accurate shot, and an accurate shot will beat the smaller Enroth more often than the bigger Miller.



All that said, I'd have no issue at all with a Enroth/Hackett or Enroth/FA 1A/1B rotation (or even Enroth/Leggio should Leggio prove himself worthy). Let's truly see what we have, if Miller does want to be traded.

Ruckus007 05-14-2013 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zman5778 (Post 66047209)
Enroth's even strength save % just isn't sustainable in any way, shape or form.

It's also a bit startling how Jhonas isn't (in limited work, mind you) as good on the PP -- and I think it directly relates to his size. There's more time to set up an accurate shot, and an accurate shot will beat the smaller Enroth more often than the bigger Miller.



All that said, I'd have no issue at all with a Enroth/Hackett or Enroth/FA 1A/1B rotation (or even Enroth/Leggio should Leggio prove himself worthy). Let's truly see what we have, if Miller does want to be traded.


I agree with all of this but I am also of the opinion that since they've invested enough time and effort into him, it's worth finding out for sure that he cannot be a starting goalie on a competitive team. If Miller's gone, I'm all for an Enroth vs Hackett vs Leggio (or Leggio-like veteran) experiment next season.

I still wonder if the acquisition of Hackett wasn't, in part, insurance against Enroth returning to Sweden after this year. If Ruff were still the coach I'd be almost sure of it but it seems like there's a mutual understanding between Ruff and Enroth.

Zman5778 05-14-2013 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruckus007 (Post 66047929)
I agree with all of this but I am also of the opinion that since they've invested enough time and effort into him, it's worth finding out for sure that he cannot be a starting goalie on a competitive team. If Miller's gone, I'm all for an Enroth vs Hackett vs Leggio (or Leggio-like veteran) experiment next season.

I still wonder if the acquisition of Hackett wasn't, in part, insurance against Enroth returning to Sweden after this year. If Ruff were still the coach I'd be almost sure of it but it seems like there's a mutual understanding between Ruff and Enroth.

I really haven't even considered that Enroth would head back to Sweden, but I suppose it's a viable alternative for him. He's not going to make more than a million or so here, and who knows how much he'd get from an SEL team.

And if we're going FA, I think I'd like to see us give Khudobin a shot......every time I've seen him (just a handful of times mind you), I've come away impressed.

Jame 05-14-2013 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruckus007 (Post 66047929)
I agree with all of this but I am also of the opinion that since they've invested enough time and effort into him, it's worth finding out for sure that he cannot be a starting goalie on a competitive team. If Miller's gone, I'm all for an Enroth vs Hackett vs Leggio (or Leggio-like veteran) experiment next season.

I still wonder if the acquisition of Hackett wasn't, in part, insurance against Enroth returning to Sweden after this year. If Ruff were still the coach I'd be almost sure of it but it seems like there's a mutual understanding between Ruff and Enroth.

agreed.... we've put the time in. Let him run with it... then we'll know more

BowieSabresFan 05-14-2013 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruckus007 (Post 66047929)
I agree with all of this but I am also of the opinion that since they've invested enough time and effort into him, it's worth finding out for sure that he cannot be a starting goalie on a competitive team. If Miller's gone, I'm all for an Enroth vs Hackett vs Leggio (or Leggio-like veteran) experiment next season.

I still wonder if the acquisition of Hackett wasn't, in part, insurance against Enroth returning to Sweden after this year. If Ruff were still the coach I'd be almost sure of it but it seems like there's a mutual understanding between Ruff and Enroth.

I do not think that Enroth is NHL starter material. He doesn't have the size. Then there's that 5-hole problem, and his glove is only ok at best. However, I am the first to admit I am not an NHL scout, and would love to be proven wrong. I also think that if Miller goes, he should definitely be given the chance to prove himself. Even if Miller stays, I think Enroth should be given a decent number of starts next year.

Clock 05-14-2013 05:40 PM

Five hole.

Sabresfansince1980 05-14-2013 05:44 PM

I really want Enroth to excel, but I still don't think a small goalie these days can be among the upper half of starters. I took the acquisition of Hackett as a threat to Enroth more than a threat to Miller. If Miller stays (which is largely up to him) he's the starter, but if Miller goes Hackett will have the same chance that Enroth has at the job. The numbers in that article just don't have that much weight until a goalie can prove he can handle the main workload.

Dixon 05-14-2013 05:48 PM

Enroth is too small to be a successful goalie and Russell Wilson is too small to be a successful quarterback.

Sabresfansince1980 05-14-2013 06:04 PM

Horrible comparison.

ZZamboni 05-14-2013 08:06 PM

My take has been and is now .... Enroth is an NHL backup ... Barely. I hope he gets better and becomes a solid dependable NHL backup. And if the stars align, maybe he will develop into an NHL starter. That would be a cool story. But I won't be surprised if in 2-3 years he's in Europe or back in the AHL.

Lloydchristmas138 05-14-2013 10:17 PM

I think Enroth can handle or even be good in a timeshare situation as well as Hackett. Ultimately his size is a huge disadvantage and in the long run I like Hackett's potential as a starter more, but Enroth has played well in big games for us in the past. I found myself at ease and impressed with Enroth a couple times this year so I would okay with him and Hackett/FA signing next year.

Dixon 05-14-2013 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 (Post 66051587)
Horrible comparison.

How is it a horrible comparison? There is a stigma in the NFL that you have to be at least 6'2" to be a successful QB. A similar stigma exists in the NHL. There are certain players where height doesn't matter. I am not willing to say that Enroth will never be a quality goalie because of his height. Especially after the way he finished the season. You seriously think there is no chance a shorter goalie could be a great goalie? It is extremely short sighted (no pun intended) to dismiss Enroth because of his height. Maybe he doesn't take up as much of the net, but isn't possible that he can rebound more quickly than larger goalies. Dismissing Enroth because he is short is just dumb.

Eichel15 05-14-2013 11:41 PM

Remember when people were iffy about Miller being worthy?

Bosswally 05-15-2013 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enrothorne (Post 66076153)
Remember when people were iffy about Miller being worthy?

when you have had one of the top 2 goalies of all time on your team no other goalie will ever be worthy in a fans eye, same thing could be said for Colorado fans with Patrick Roy, and devils fans with Broudeur

Sean McG 05-15-2013 01:06 AM

They don't really have anything to lose by starting him... it's his first legitimate chance to be a starter in the NHL and he'll either seize the opportunity or prove he can't be a starter. Plain and simple. Let him and Hackett battle it out and see what you have in both of them.

Eichel15 05-15-2013 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bosswally (Post 66078679)
when you have had one of the top 2 goalies of all time on your team no other goalie will ever be worthy in a fans eye, same thing could be said for Colorado fans with Patrick Roy, and devils fans with Broudeur

No, the concern was whether any of the three could be a starter of quality.

thefifagod 05-15-2013 02:06 AM

From a statistical standpoint, he still hasn't faced enough shots in his career to definitively say what he is but the closer he gets, the more his numbers show that he can actually be a starting goalie. Perhaps it's only because of the SSS but at this point, we should find out what he is. Despite what everyone presumed was Enroth playing terrible for stretches, every season he's had an above average (pretty much exactly league average in 2010-11) ES SV%. For all his weaknesses, he still has put up solid numbers.

thefifagod 05-15-2013 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZamboni (Post 66060791)
My take has been and is now .... Enroth is an NHL backup ... Barely. I hope he gets better and becomes a solid dependable NHL backup. And if the stars align, maybe he will develop into an NHL starter. That would be a cool story. But I won't be surprised if in 2-3 years he's in Europe or back in the AHL.

It's pretty clear at this point that he is at least a solid backup. You don't have the numbers he has over 3 years (especially the last 2, 38 total games) and not be a solid backup. Again, even strength save percentage is the best indicator of a goaltender's abilities and the only backups who were better than Enroth this year in that regard were Vokoun (should have been the starter, they finally realized this), Lehner, Khabibulin and Bernier. For all his supposed weaknesses (specifically five-hole), other teams haven't been able to exploit it enough to drag down his numbers. Maybe he can't last throughout the grind of an entire season, maybe other teams spend more time studying him and he gets exposed, but there's no reason to find out. So far, he looks like he can at least be a 1B goalie.

OkimLom 05-15-2013 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nEaLB4ZoD (Post 66075253)
How is it a horrible comparison? There is a stigma in the NFL that you have to be at least 6'2" to be a successful QB. A similar stigma exists in the NHL. There are certain players where height doesn't matter. I am not willing to say that Enroth will never be a quality goalie because of his height. Especially after the way he finished the season. You seriously think there is no chance a shorter goalie could be a great goalie? It is extremely short sighted (no pun intended) to dismiss Enroth because of his height. Maybe he doesn't take up as much of the net, but isn't possible that he can rebound more quickly than larger goalies. Dismissing Enroth because he is short is just dumb.

I believe the people that don't think he can be a starter; is not dismissing him because of his height, but because of his play in net. Height does make a difference in the league today. When the league was mostly stand up goaltending I would say the height shouldn't be a problem, but with the way players shoot nowadays, and how accurate they are, taking as much space and being very quick is turning into a must now. The height of goalies also affects their ability to see through, and around, screens.

When you watch Enroth, his biggest weakness is his 5 hole. For a goalie his height, that should be a strength(takes less time to go down, shorter legs should lead to smaller 5 hole). His weakness should be up above the shoulders and down low past the legs. The fact he is a butterfly goalie, doesn't go well for saving shots that are high.

He does have amazing quickness, and his calm demeanor is a positive to have in goalies. He comes off as a good guy in the locker room, and the players seem to play better and player better together when he is in the net.

I would rather have him in the backup role IMO. But if you're in a rebuilding phase, I guess its best to see where guys are so you can move forward with or without them.

RazielMoshman 05-15-2013 09:29 AM

It's probably worth noting most NHL 'experts' were saying Hackett will probably spend the bulk of next season in the minors, most seem to think he needs a little more time before hitting the big leagues. I am, however, a big fan of Enroth vs Leggio vs Hackett, I'd like to trade Miller to see that happen.

joshjull 05-15-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enrothorne (Post 66076153)
Remember when people were iffy about Miller being worthy?


Yes, Miller struggled in 2 of the 3 games he was called up for early in the 03-04 season. His second season as a pro. The worst game being when he got lit up for 7 goals on 23 shots by Detroit on Dec 10th.

But by the time Miller was given the job as the starter. It was after he had gotten back on track in the AHL. He completed the 03-04 AHL season strong and carried that play into the playoffs that year (1.82 Gaa and .934 save% in 14 playoff games). He then had another strong year in AHL during the lockout season (04-05). He had two very good seasons in the AHL as a regular season workhorse (60 + 63 gms) and a couple rounds of playoffs before it was decided he was ready. He also was given the Sabres starting job in camp before the 05-06 season with the previous starter (Biron) still on the roster. So if Miller had faltered Biron would be there to take his job back. Miller took the starting job that season and never looked back.


Miller wasn't gifted the starting job after the previous starter was traded away. I'm all about players earning something not having it handed to them.

Chainshot 05-15-2013 10:15 AM

Considering my opinion of Enroth, perhaps handing him the starters role would work in lockstep with being in the hunt for Ekblad and McDavid.

Dutchess 05-15-2013 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chainshot (Post 66088809)
Considering my opinion of Enroth, perhaps handing him the starters role would work in lockstep with being in the hunt for Ekblad and McDavid.

That's one of the obvious points here. You're not handing Miller's successor a Stanley Cup contender.

Enroth is young, he's improved incredibly since Ruff's departure, and this team is going to be bad. I know expecting the numbers of this year across a whole season isn't realistic but perhaps we've got someone good enough to be a starter on our hands and don't even realize it.

Which again makes me wonder: why was he so bad under Ruff yet so incredible under Rolston?

Chainshot 05-15-2013 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyDrama21 (Post 66091743)
That's one of the obvious points here. You're not handing Miller's successor a Stanley Cup contender.

Enroth is young, he's improved incredibly since Ruff's departure, and this team is going to be bad. I know expecting the numbers of this year across a whole season isn't realistic but perhaps we've got someone good enough to be a starter on our hands and don't even realize it.

Which again makes me wonder: why was he so bad under Ruff yet so incredible under Rolston?

Unsustainable even-strength save percentage boosts happened for both Miller and Enroth under Rolston. In the short-term, Enroth as the starter to me actually helps the cause for a bottom-feeding season and top-end draft pick or picks. If he's the guy, so be it.


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