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-   -   The Armchair GM Thread - XL (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1429783)

K35L3R 05-14-2013 09:35 PM

Why We Have Been Outed in the 1st Round 2 Years Running...Solutions?
 
Thoughts?

So many different opinions about this. Some say AV's message is not getting through, others say its our lack of offensive depth or that we are not physical or we play a brand of hockey that doesn't 'work' anymore.

My thought is that we are trying to be one-to-many things.

There was a time not too long ago when the nucks were a 4 line offensive juggernaut and had an offensive oriented back end. We could score at will, our PP was lethal, the twins would run circles around opposition defenses and Kesler could take over a game at will. We ran into the Bruins and lost some key/positional free agents and for some reason, lost our mantra.

This season I saw a team that didn't really have an identity. We have certain players that simply don't seem to fit with our system and more importantly, tried to play a brand of hockey that is not suited for the way this team is constructed.

I think AV is gone already (as much as I like and am a huge fan of his) but do think we have more systemic issues which need to be addressed with a change of several key personnel. I am not saying we need to blow it up (we have won the division 5 years straight) but we do need to stick to and build a team around an identity.

***
Recommendations
***
1. Get Luongo out of here...I know this is an obvious one but seriously; this was something that Gillis and co completely botched.

2. Ballard..I know another obvious one. He does not fit here and does not play the game that the Canucks play.

3. Support the Sedins and Kesler with real talent. We have a wealth of guys that are not legitimate top six forwards but play a top 6 role with the Canucks. Some claim this gives us depth, IMO, this mis-allocates precious cap dollars to have quantity v. quality. I am referring to:

- Hansen (3rd liner)
- Raymond (3rd liner)
- Higgins (3rd liner)
- Burrows (fringe 2nd liner IMO, I know I will get grilled for this...)
- Kassian (3rd liner)
- Booth (fringe 2nd liner)

Thats ~11m right there for this last season tied up to 6 guys many of who, have taken turns playing in our top 6.

4. Strong, physical players. No I don't mean goons and no I am not saying we need Lucic (would be great to have him though). We need guys who can round out our offensive talent with speed, corner play, tenacity, clutching and grabbing, crease crashing, big hits, after the whistle nastiness etc. We do have some of this in our line-up but the players representing this role are not made for it. Take Hansen for example. Fast guy and proved this year he can pitch in offensively. Do you think should be pushing and shoving trying to throw his weight around? Look at Burrows, do we need the most penalized player in the league who isn't very big yapping and trying to close out his hits.

5. Use our youth. Yes Gillis spoke about this but I think many of us know that the Canucks organization has failed to give guys good shots in the big league. I will leave it at that for this one.

***
Solutions - New Look
***
*Note these are the trades/moves I would consider. No idea how plasable these are, I am not a NHL GM. I would assume this may be possible; however, I am thinking more for the type of player not so much for the specific individual I have denoted.

1. TRADE Luongo for Picks
2. AMNESTY Booth
3. TRADE Burrows + Pick acquired in Luongo trade? for Hartnell
4. TRADE Higgins and Schroeder for Tinordi + Moen
5. TRADE Ballard + pick acquired in Luongo trade? for Okposo
6. SIGN Torress
7. SIGN Smithson
8. RESIGN Tanev
9. RECALL Gaunce
10. RECALL Jensen

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Add ZK gives us grit and protection for the twins. Regardless of his production, he is a great fit here if we want him to grow into what he needs to.

Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Kyle Okposo ($2.800m)
Size does matter. Both Hartness and Okposo are north south big guys. This line will be fast and act to add some sandpaper to support the twins. Okposo is only 25 but has seen declining production for the Isles. They are a team that will need defense given Streit is a free agent. As for Hartnell, Philly has very similar players, he didn't play much last year but he is exactly what we need.

Raffi Torres ($2.000m) / Brendan Gaunce ($1.057m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
The do it all line. These guys can hit, play a two way game, chip in offensively and insulate the top 6 group. Love Torres.

Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Jerred Smithson ($1.000m) / Nicklas Jensen ($0.863m)
The do it all line. These guys can hit, play a two way game, chip in offensively and insulate the top 6 group.

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)

Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)

Chris Tanev ($2.000m) / Jarred Tinordi ($1.083m)
Add Tinordi who is a big nasty dman.

Frank Corrado ($0.599m) /

GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)

Eddie Lack ($0.750m)

Zombotron 05-14-2013 10:43 PM

I love the look of the bottom-six. If I were GMMG I'd be more interested in trading Edler than Burrows, though a Burrows trade is more of a shakeup.


Two things to note:
  1. Hartnell has an NMC
  2. Higgins has a limited NTC, but Montreal is his childhood team...

LiquidSnake 05-14-2013 10:47 PM

So this is actually an armchair GM proposal?

Nuckles 05-14-2013 11:31 PM

The Armchair GM Thread - XL
 
Last thread: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1424823

Continue

Vancouver Canucks* 05-14-2013 11:35 PM

Edler for Ryan
Schneider for Couturier

Vankiller Whale 05-14-2013 11:39 PM

Flyers just traded for Mason, they won't trade for Schneider as well.

vector209 05-14-2013 11:44 PM

Mike Green. Just do it.

Drop the Sopel 05-14-2013 11:44 PM

Arsmaster- Stastny is a better, more versatile player than Roy. Roy gives you secondary scoring but little else. Stastny is more like Pavelski - good defensively, good in the faceoff circle and solid secondary scoring.

I also have to question the health of Roy's shoulder. He was under 40% in faceoffs as a Canuck - that screams shoulder issues IMO. Historically he's hovered around 50%...

Royal Canuck 05-14-2013 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vector209 (Post 66076331)
Mike Green. Just do it.

If Edler gets it bad around here, I couldn't imagine the hate Green would get here.

Bleach Clean 05-14-2013 11:48 PM

On Stastny: It's essentially the same move as trying to bring in Weiss, Filpulla, Ribeiro or retaining Roy. The idea being to remedy centre ice for this team. The difference being that Stastny would be the most costliest of options available. Every other C is at or near FA.

I don't really care who gets brought in, so long as a centre ice is solidified. Of course, with the pending cap crunch, cheaper is better. Not to mention the assets required to trade for a player as opposed to getting them in free agency. So in that respect, Stastny seems the least likely of all options... if the Canucks were going that way, that is.

K35L3R 05-14-2013 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidSnake (Post 66072905)
So this is actually an armchair GM proposal?

Kind of everything wrapped together.

Drop the Sopel 05-14-2013 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royal Canuck (Post 66076491)
If Edler gets it bad around here, I couldn't imagine the hate Green would get here.

Green is a better dman than Edler IMO. His injury history is more than a little concerning however.

Bleach Clean 05-14-2013 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel (Post 66076357)
Arsmaster- Stastny is a better, more versatile player than Roy. Roy gives you secondary scoring but little else. Stastny is more like Pavelski - good defensively, good in the faceoff circle and solid secondary scoring.

I also have to question the health of Roy's shoulder. He was under 40% in faceoffs as a Canuck - that screams shoulder issues IMO. Historically he's hovered around 50%...


Roy, is himself an all situations player. I see them as pretty comparable. Roy plus asset is speed, while Stastny is bigger.

Good point about the shoulder issues. Hadn't thought of that. Could explain Roy's face-offs this past playoffs. Saying that though, the Sharks are strong face-off team, so perhaps it's a bit of both.

Royal Canuck 05-14-2013 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel (Post 66076775)
Green is a better dman than Edler IMO. His injury history is more than a little concerning however.

Edler is more reliable defensively. <feel free to take shots at me, but it's the truth>

Green is much more dynamic in the offensive zone, however.

I don't think he'll ever get back to 30-goal form, but I'd be happy with a consistent 15.

Vankiller Whale 05-14-2013 11:52 PM

Henrik-Kesler-Schroeder-Lapierre as centre depth looks solid to me.
Daniel-Booth-Higgins-Weise does not, especially with Daniel in a prolonged slump.
Burrows-Hansen-Kassian-Pinizzotto? is also pretty bad

Drop the Sopel 05-14-2013 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleach Clean (Post 66076637)
On Stastny: It's essentially the same move as trying to bring in Weiss, Filpulla, Ribeiro or retaining Roy. The idea being to remedy centre ice for this team. The difference being that Stastny would be the most costliest of options available. Every other C is at or near FA.

I don't really care who gets brought in, so long as a centre ice is solidified. Of course, with the pending cap crunch, cheaper is better. Not to mention the assets required to trade for a player as opposed to getting them in free agency. So in that respect, Stastny seems the least likely of all options... if the Canucks were going that way, that is.

Stastny is the least likeliest because signings are more probable than trades but IMO Stastny has the most upside of that bunch and is the best fit. Ribeiro would likely produce more but I don't see Gillis giving him the 5 years he's looking for.

Weiss will likely be a target but like Roy, he's on the smaller side and lingering injuries could be a concern.

LiquidSnake 05-14-2013 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 66077025)
Henrik-Kesler-Schroeder-Lapierre as centre depth looks solid to me.
Daniel-Booth-Higgins-Weise does not, especially with Daniel in a prolonged slump.
Burrows-Hansen-Kassian-Pinizzotto? is also pretty bad

Don't like Schroeder in the 3rd slot but I agree, the wingers are terrible

arsmaster 05-14-2013 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleach Clean (Post 66076637)
On Stastny: It's essentially the same move as trying to bring in Weiss, Filpulla, Ribeiro or retaining Roy. The idea being to remedy centre ice for this team. The difference being that Stastny would be the most costliest of options available. Every other C is at or near FA.

I don't really care who gets brought in, so long as a centre ice is solidified. Of course, with the pending cap crunch, cheaper is better. Not to mention the assets required to trade for a player as opposed to getting them in free agency. So in that respect, Stastny seems the least likely of all options... if the Canucks were going that way, that is.

Posted my proposed roster in the roy thread. involves moving Burrows to #3C....Gillis wants it to check.

Let Burrows work on his faceoffs.

Try Schroeder with Kesler and Booth, Kassian with the Twins and stick with it.

There's youth and some beef in the top 6, and excellent shutdown line (Higgins-Burrows-Hansen), and if you think we really need it, move Edler for either a potential (yet young and cheap...Couturier) #3C + futures or another front line forward to supplement the top 6.

I think trying what they have with a new coach will be tried, and these drastic changes and BIG moves are very unlikely.

They'll hope to add a small to medium piece in free agency and hopefully gain futures in a goalie trade.

If under a new coach this roster still looks stagnant, upgrades will be made mid-season. A real 82 game season not a "messed up" one, will be more conducive to hockey trades.

Bourne Endeavor 05-14-2013 11:55 PM

Montreal traded Higgins in the disastrous Gomez acquisition; doing so amidst Higgins' recovery from a wrist injury that had sent him into a long slump. He was subsequently traded from his hometown team (New York) and spiraled into some of the most depressing hockey I have witnessed. I doubt he wants anything to do with Montreal and likewise, they haven't any need of him. Furthermore, Tinordi is a young, gritty defenseman with high upside. What motivation does Montreal have to deal him for Higgins when they need size in their back end more than we do? Finally, Higgins just signed a contract with us and already we are asking him to waive his NTC? We may as well spit in his face - a guy who has arguably been among our best forwards.

Hartnell is an intricate part of Philly; having scored 30+ goals only a year ago. His influence on Vocarek and Simmonds has paid dividends in spades and while he may be made available, the asking price will exceed Burrows and a late pick. Philly is also looking to add offense, not subtracting it in a lateral trade. And like Higgins, Burrows recently re-signed after having given this franchise an absolute steal of a contract and we ship him out?

Okposo played a significant role in Long Island's success, in particular during the playoffs. Ballard is a dime a dozen defenseman that is overpaid. They have little motivation for this trade even if that pick offered was our first - the only way it wouldn't be insulting.

For reference sake, Moen has been AWFUL since signing that contract. Hab fans, myself included, would be delighted to unload him. Therefore, if it is your intent to establish a gritty and physical fourth line, you will be sorely disappointed with Moen. I also question how we make better use of our youth by tossing Jensen on the fourth line with players that will do nothing for him.

Bluntly stated, your proposals are quite unrealistic and spit in the face of two players who not only recently re-signed, but have been stables in our roster since arriving; Burrows more so.

Drop the Sopel 05-14-2013 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleach Clean (Post 66076961)
Roy, is himself an all situations player. I see them as pretty comparable. Roy plus asset is speed, while Stastny is bigger.

Good point about the shoulder issues. Hadn't thought of that. Could explain Roy's face-offs this past playoffs. Saying that though, the Sharks are strong face-off team, so perhaps it's a bit of both.

I would take Stastny over Roy in a head to head situation. IMO his size and faceoff ability make him better suited to go head to head with Getzlaf, Kopitar, Thornton etc...

The Sharks strong faceoff ability explains Roy's putrid 35% playoff faceoff numbers but he was only 40% in the regular season for the Canucks. If your shoulder isn't healthy, you'll really struggle taking faceoffs. Roy also used to be a quality goalscorer. Is it a coincidence his goalscoring fell off a cliff since damaging his shoulder? I doubt it.

Verviticus 05-15-2013 12:04 AM

hey guys higgins literally currently has an NTC and is likely not going to waive that to go anywhere

BlueRoyal14 05-15-2013 12:08 AM

The Canucks absolutely need that reliable 3rd line center who is good on the dot, can play a shutdown role and on the PK, and can also be a strong source of secondary scoring.

Solution: Trade for Antoine Vermette. The guy went to the SCF with Ottawa in 2007 and helped the Coyotes get to the WCF last year, posting a solid 10 points in 16 games. He's a perfect utility guy and would fill the vacant 3rd line center spot on the Canucks nicely.

PG Canuck 05-15-2013 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidSnake (Post 66072905)
So this is actually an armchair GM proposal?

Thought I was in a fantasy pool thread or something. Still do. I don't know how people expect to just bring in six new players to the team. We can barely bring in a couple in one offseason, let alone bring in Okposo and Hartnell type players.

Bleach Clean 05-15-2013 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel (Post 66077111)
Stastny is the least likeliest because signings are more probable than trades but IMO Stastny has the most upside of that bunch and is the best fit. Ribeiro would likely produce more but I don't see Gillis giving him the 5 years he's looking for.

Weiss will likely be a target but like Roy, he's on the smaller side and lingering injuries could be a concern.


Upside, sure. Stastny is the youngest of the bunch, I believe. Fit, you also have point there, as he could play a shutdown role perhaps better than any of the options. But that difference is made up for by others in other areas. For instance, I dislike Stastny's footspeed, and it can be an issue. The others seems to move around better (Ribeiro is a maybe).

Saying all that, you do get the point that its easier to get that option, at a lower acquisition cost, and at a lower salary, in FA. So going there first seems much more likely to me.


Quote:

Originally Posted by arsmaster (Post 66077149)
Posted my proposed roster in the roy thread. involves moving Burrows to #3C....Gillis wants it to check.

Let Burrows work on his faceoffs.

Try Schroeder with Kesler and Booth, Kassian with the Twins and stick with it.

There's youth and some beef in the top 6, and excellent shutdown line (Higgins-Burrows-Hansen), and if you think we really need it, move Edler for either a potential (yet young and cheap...Couturier) #3C + futures or another front line forward to supplement the top 6.

I think trying what they have with a new coach will be tried, and these drastic changes and BIG moves are very unlikely.

They'll hope to add a small to medium piece in free agency and hopefully gain futures in a goalie trade.

If under a new coach this roster still looks stagnant, upgrades will be made mid-season. A real 82 game season not a "messed up" one, will be more conducive to hockey trades.


I agree. They'll try what they have with a new coach, for the most part. I'm just not sure going with Burrows at the 3C is the best option. They need to get a prospect C with size then, if they are going the route of keeping the entire core intact. Then toggle the bottom6 positions between that prospect, Schroeder, and perhaps a more traditional 4th line C.

Edler should not be moved IMO. Give him the same chance under the new coach.

Vankiller Whale 05-15-2013 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidSnake (Post 66077139)
Don't like Schroeder in the 3rd slot but I agree, the wingers are terrible

If we intend to keep Schroeder next year and not lose him to waivers, it's the only place we can put him. He didn't look out of place this year, and he'll only be better next year. Good offensive instincts and defensively sound, he's still a decent choice, if not ideal.


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