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-   -   Other: Why is everyone trying to get rid of Edler? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1430489)

KelownaRocketsFan 05-16-2013 02:01 AM

Why is everyone trying to get rid of Edler?
 
Simple question since every second post on Hf is about Edler. Why does everyone want to get rid of him? Is it just his contract or what?
Edler is one of the best defenders in the league, IMO, I definitely wouldn't trade him if there is an alternative. Moreover, most people (Canucks fans?) on Hf want total overpayment for him.

Vankiller Whale 05-16-2013 02:03 AM

He's the only player of value on our team without a NTC. And we need to make panic roster shake-up moves since we get swept.

So Edler is the scapegoat for the fanbase.

Cogburn 05-16-2013 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelownaRocketsFan (Post 66131597)
Simple question since every second post on Hf is about Edler. Why does everyone want to get rid of him? Is it just his contract or what?
Edler is one of the best defenders in the league, IMO, I definitely wouldn't trade him if there is an alternative. Moreover, most people (Canucks fans?) on Hf want total overpayment for him.

Too many 4+ million LHDs.

Most value of any of our D corps.

Half our fan base hate the guy no matter what, and the other half hate Bieksa, who would fetch less and is one of two NHL calibre RHDs on this team.

His NTC takes effect July 1st.

He seems the most sought after D, with Bieksa at a close second.

He's Swedish (probably...we have a fringe group that hates all non-Canadians).

Inconsistency this year (combined with reasons 1,2,3,4 and maybe 5).

Does that mostly cover it? Other Canucks fans...did I get it all?

EDIT!: Also, we're incredibly fickle!

ohnoeszz 05-16-2013 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelownaRocketsFan (Post 66131597)
Simple question since every second post on Hf is about Edler. Why does everyone want to get rid of him? Is it just his contract or what?
Edler is one of the best defenders in the league, IMO, I definitely wouldn't trade him if there is an alternative. Moreover, most people (Canucks fans?) on Hf want total overpayment for him.

Quote:

He's the only player of value on our team without a NTC. And we need to make panic roster shake-up moves since we get swept.

So Edler is the scapegoat for the fanbase.
There is a lot of stupidity contained in the fan-base.

I am curious what you think the desired overpayment is if you think he is one of the best defenders in the league though. Generally I've seen people talk about Couturier which, to me, isn't close to worth it value-wise.

iFan 05-16-2013 02:44 AM

The mount of Edler trades on here is getting way out of hand, he won't be traded.

jammyrft 05-16-2013 02:48 AM

It's simple really, like above posters mentioned

Considering his age, play and great contract he holds the most value to give the Canucks a real shake up.

StringerBell 05-16-2013 03:04 AM

Most expendable piece that carries good value. Fanbase wants to see changes to three roster after two playoff disappointments.

ohnoeszz 05-16-2013 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammyrft (Post 66132173)
It's simple really, like above posters mentioned

Considering his age, play and great contract he holds the most value to give the Canucks a real shake up.

Yes, but the explanation isn't complete without mentioning panicky fans.

jammyrft 05-16-2013 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohnoeszz (Post 66132527)
Yes, but the explanation isn't complete without mentioning panicky fans.



I won't deny Canuck fans as panicky...but in this case I don't think it's panic. Hockey and Canuck fans alike would strongly agree Nucks need change and a big shakeup. Edler is the single biggest asset without a NTC/NMC that could be traded to bring back the most value, it's as simple as that

ohnoeszz 05-16-2013 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammyrft (Post 66132669)
I won't deny Canuck fans as panicky...but in this case I don't think it's panic. Hockey and Canuck fans alike would strongly agree Nucks need change and a big shakeup. Edler is the single biggest asset without a NTC/NMC that could be traded to bring back the most value, it's as simple as that

I just disagree that the shakeup needed necessitates moving core players.

We need a new system and a new voice speaking to the team, demanding/suggesting different things. We need a high quality 2nd liner. We need a third line two-way center. But I don't think there is anyone on the team that has to leave.

Moving someone for good value in an area of need should always be of interest, but I don't see the Edler trades as that at all. They generally involve trading him for some youth with perceived high potential disregarding how it makes us a worse team and mitigates our ability to compete while the Sedins are still top players.

416Leafer 05-16-2013 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 66131619)
He's the only player of value on our team without a NTC. And we need to make panic roster shake-up moves since we get swept.

So Edler is the scapegoat for the fanbase.

Players with NTCs get moved all the time. The majority of the time, they are used to allow the player some say in where they go, not so they can force an organization that doesnt want them to keep them. Thats a bad situation for both the player and organization.

19canuck90 05-16-2013 08:01 AM

As a Canucks fan who often feels our players are unfairly critisized, how this guy seems to get by without fans losing their mind is beyond me. The amount of goals almost single handidly caused by defensive miscues or poor puck decisions on his part is extreme. Go back and watch the Kings series from last year and our series loss begins and ends with Edler.

I would compare him to Dion Phanuef in the sense that they are both extremely skilled players who can look great at times but then other times they make that play that makes you want to smash your head against the wall.

The core of vancouver is still good enough to win despite all the kneejerk reactions made by fans over the past weeks and Edler may be the only piece that could be movable that the canucks could get a legitamate game changing return on.

Robert Theodorson 05-16-2013 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 416Leafer (Post 66133769)
Players with NTCs get moved all the time. The majority of the time, they are used to allow the player some say in where they go, not so they can force an organization that doesnt want them to keep them. Thats a bad situation for both the player and organization.

Oh, you're talking about the Edmonton clause.

Legionnaire 05-16-2013 08:16 AM

Define everyone.

BROOKLYnKNIGHTS 05-16-2013 08:17 AM

I think alot of people felt Eer would replace Erhoff as a top defenseman. It's unfortunate that things have not worked out that way

thadd 05-16-2013 08:22 AM

1: He's signed to a long term contract
2: He's got a high trade value
3: He lacks an NTC
4: Canuck fans want to see Gillis shake things up big time.

Prongo 05-16-2013 08:24 AM

It's quite simple actually. Look at all threads after every round of the playoffs. Every single team that has lost I believe had a "firesale" thread up. HFB is the most reactionary place you will ever discuss hockey. Instead of building on a playoff appereance and a successful season, they want to blow it all up. Why, because on here, prospects>actual NHLers.

There is one team though that does probably need a shake up the most and it's Vancouver. You do not though, move a defender you just signed an extension for a reasonable cap hit who gives you 45 points a year. They need to change the culture of the team, not blow it up. Sedins should stay, and bring in some character players who bang bodies. Ryan Clowe would help that team out big time I feel. The major problem with the Canucks is their lack of character. You need more people in that locker room to take accountability for the results of the game and not even think about mentioning the refs/other team. Bring in guys who rely on hard work and determination to make plays and get powerplays, not diving(let me say, I believe players dive all the time, just some more than others)

Get Lap/Burrows off the team. There is a reason they don't get the benefit of the calls anymore. They have dove/played dirty for so long other teams and refs have picked up on it. They feel like they are probably fair game since they have been doing it for so long.

All in all, I just think a culture change would help that franchise out big time. Do NOT trade Edler, but move some other pieces. Keep the core in tact.

Just my opinion from a non Canuck fan.

Dreamskull 05-16-2013 08:26 AM

Gillis gives out NTCs like breath mints. Edler's hasn't kicked in yet, everyone else's has. He's the only really moveable piece (until his kicks in) and he actually has trade value.

golffuul 05-19-2013 01:16 AM

I thought it was simple...You have the Wunderkind...Chris Tanev...who will lead you in glory to the Stanley Cup. And don't forget his prodigy, Franky Corrado. With those two....you don't even need to dress 6 D. At least according to Kelly Hrudey, Scott Simpson, and Ron McLean

Djp 05-19-2013 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelownaRocketsFan (Post 66131597)
Simple question since every second post on Hf is about Edler. Why does everyone want to get rid of him? Is it just his contract or what?
Edler is one of the best defenders in the league, IMO, I definitely wouldn't trade him if there is an alternative. Moreover, most people (Canucks fans?) on Hf want total overpayment for him.

We are now entering the hard salary cap era.

Next year the cap is $64.3M

If you allow cate the cap as such:

$36M for 14 forwards
$25M for the 7 Dmen + 2 Goalies
$3.3M for call ups and deadline deals.

For the forwards:

bottom 5= $4M
3rd line= $7M
2nd line= $10M
1st line= $15M

for the D/G

starting G= $5M
top 4 Dmen=$16M
bottom 3 Dmen/backup goalie=$4M


NO TEAM really can afford to have a 5th Dman with a cap hit at/above $4M.

If you pay for a 5th Dmen at $4M then you have to cut elsewhere on your team.


It happens Edler is the easiest one to move because of no trade clause so he could be moved for youth or cheaper players.

The other problem with Vancouver is that they need to shed salary with them right up against the cap wall.

Vankiller Whale 05-19-2013 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djp (Post 66274007)
We are now entering the hard salary cap era.

Next year the cap is $64.3M

If you allow cate the cap as such:

$36M for 14 forwards
$25M for the 7 Dmen + 2 Goalies
$3.3M for call ups and deadline deals.

For the forwards:

bottom 5= $4M
3rd line= $7M
2nd line= $10M
1st line= $15M

for the D/G

starting G= $5M
top 4 Dmen=$16M
bottom 3 Dmen/backup goalie=$4M


NO TEAM really can afford to have a 5th Dman with a cap hit at/above $4M.

If you pay for a 5th Dmen at $4M then you have to cut elsewhere on your team.

Hamhuis, Edler, Bieksa, Garrison. Ballard is guaranteed gone. No other dman on our team makes more than 2 mil, or is likely to in the near future.

LPH 05-19-2013 02:11 AM

because people are stupid

Edler won't be traded

Djp 05-19-2013 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 66274075)
Hamhuis, Edler, Bieksa, Garrison. Ballard is guaranteed gone. No other dman on our team makes more than 2 mil, or is likely to in the near future.

As of next season:

Edler $5.0M
Bieska $4.6M
Garrison $4.6M
Hamhuis $4.5M
Ballard $4.2M

i see 5 at 4+

fine you compliance buyout Ballard......

you still have issues.....

2 G $9.3M
remaining top 4 Dmen $18.7M
your bottom 3 Dmen....maybe $4M

that adds up to $32M way over a $25M budget.

even after cutting Ballard...Vancouver really needs to move another one of the Dmen for a younger cheaper Dman

Vankiller Whale 05-19-2013 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djp (Post 66274245)
As of next season:

Edler $5.0M
Bieska $4.6M
Garrison $4.6M
Hamhuis $4.5M
Ballard $4.2M

i see 5 at 4+

fine you compliance buyout Ballard......

you still have issues.....

2 G $9.3M
remaining top 4 Dmen $18.7M
your bottom 3 Dmen....maybe $4M

that adds up to $32M way over a $25M budget.

even after cutting Ballard...Vancouver really needs to move another one of the Dmen for a younger cheaper Dman

We expect Ballard and Luongo to be gone by next year. Numerous rosters have been compiled with the same D core and an improved top-6, without trading Edler. We are not going to move Edler for cap space.

Djp 05-19-2013 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 66274301)
We expect Ballard and Luongo to be gone by next year. Numerous rosters have been compiled with the same D core and an improved top-6, without trading Edler. We are not going to move Edler for cap space.

What sort of scenario does this?

Any proposal that relies on Vancouver trading Luongo and actually getting something for him of note who isnt also a serious cap dump themselves is just not going to happen.


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