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Twist and Shout 05-15-2005 06:02 PM

Golden Kaberle
 
Tomas Kaberle and his Czech Republic team won gold today against Canada. Tomas, coming off a triplicate of honours in the Czech Extraliga had a great World Championships tourney as he was the highest scoring Czech d-man (tied with Zidlicky and Kubina) with a goal and three assists. He had no trouble making spectacular outlet passes, jumping into the rush, and even shooting as he showed improved defensive play.

Kaberle played a stellar game today as he even blocked a couple of shots and his zero-panic with the puck was strongly evident. Pierre Macguire commented after the game that Kaberle was an integral part of the Czech win and one of the best d-men in the tourney.

I believe we will see a #1 d-man for the Leafs in Tomas when the NHL resumes. Congrats to him on winning gold :clap: :clap: :clap:

darrylsittler27 05-15-2005 06:18 PM

I dont believe Kaberle will ever play like that as a leaf
 
Kaberle may have just played the game of his life,but i doubt he would give that for Quinn.He often looked uninspired as a leaf but on the other hand his tradeability has never been higher.Im not buying that he is a number one defenseman,he just had a big game and it wasnt as a leaf...Ill take Brewer and a first rounder for him.

Verbal Kint* 05-15-2005 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darrylsittler27
Kaberle may have just played the game of his life,but i doubt he would give that for Quinn.He often looked uninspired as a leaf but on the other hand his tradeability has never been higher.Im not buying that he is a number one defenseman,he just had a big game and it wasnt as a leaf...Ill take Brewer and a first rounder for him.

Brewer and a first rounder? Yeah right, you'd be lucky to even get Brewer straight up off of Lowe's hands for him.

mooseOAK* 05-15-2005 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master of Puppets
Brewer and a first rounder? Yeah right, you'd be lucky to even get Brewer straight up off of Lowe's hands for him.

I see that there are still people clinging to the notion that Brewer will be a great defenceman.

GD|eNSo 05-15-2005 08:34 PM

It really is hard to please everyone.
 
Kerberle is having a great season overall, not just this one game. Proof can be with the hardware he has earned this year, with the Chech team.

I highly doubt he will giveup or not try as hard just because he puts on the Leafs jersey.

Tomas is what? 28 now? Just climbing into his prime, while collecting some great experince not only in his regular league, but in this successful tournament. Add that with the skill he must have fine tuned, and the confidence boost.

Kaberle is going to be Leaf's #1 come next season.

timlap 05-15-2005 09:57 PM

Great job, Tomas! He has been one of my favourites since he first suited up for the Leafs. This makes up for Canada losing. :)

timlap 05-15-2005 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darrylsittler27
Kaberle may have just played the game of his life,but i doubt he would give that for Quinn.He often looked uninspired as a leaf but on the other hand his tradeability has never been higher.Im not buying that he is a number one defenseman,he just had a big game and it wasnt as a leaf...Ill take Brewer and a first rounder for him.

Well, Darryl- I did vote for you as best Leaf ever, but I disagree with you on two counts. :D

I don't buy the argument that says Kaberle doesn't try as hard when he plays in the NHL. GD|eNSo correctly points out that he is still young for a defenceman, and he continues to develop. What has sometimes been called 'uninspired' has probably just been inexperience.

Otoh, you overrate his tradeability. First rounders are generally not easy to acquire, and Brewer has plenty of promise, despite some naysayers.

ULF_55 05-16-2005 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevenSteen
Tomas Kaberle and his Czech Republic team won gold today against Canada. Tomas, coming off a triplicate of honours in the Czech Extraliga had a great World Championships tourney as he was the highest scoring Czech d-man (tied with Zidlicky and Kubina) with a goal and three assists.

I believe we will see a #1 d-man for the Leafs in Tomas when the NHL resumes. Congrats to him on winning gold :clap: :clap: :clap:

In the NNHL he may very well become the #1 d-man for the Leafs as the league clamps down on illegal tactics employed by defenders with less skill and intelligence.

Mess 05-16-2005 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULF_55
In the NNHL he may very well become the #1 d-man for the Leafs as the league clamps down on illegal tactics employed by defenders with less skill and intelligence.

Lets just hope and pray that Belak's days are numbered then in the NNHL as a result.

There has to be a silver lining in all this for Canada's team, however the opportunity was golden for Kaberle to develop and get some real coaching this season. it seems to have made him a much better player

ULF_55 05-16-2005 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
Lets just hope and pray that Belak's days are numbered then in the NNHL as a result.

There has to be a silver lining in all this for Canada's team, however the opportunity was golden for Kaberle to develop and get some real coaching this season. it seems to have made him a much better player

We know a coach who'd use Belak over Ian White, and yet that same coach, with Alpo, brought in a new and exciting style to the Leafs before acquiecing to the Neanderthal mentality of the league.

Where did that man go?

Fire his assistants, if that is why he's regressed to a caricature of a coach.

Mess 05-16-2005 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULF_55
We know a coach who'd use Belak over Ian White, and yet that same coach, with Alpo, brought in a new and exciting style to the Leafs before acquiecing to the Neanderthal mentality of the league.

Where did that man go?

Fire his assistants, if that is why he's regressed to a caricature of a coach.

You know you're in trouble when your team goes into a season and prepares for the waiver draft and with ability to protect only 12 forwards you make Domi, Belak(waiver wire claim) and Perrott (minor leaguer trade Bob Wren) three of those protections in an attempt to employ a new and exciting style..

I watch the World Championships & the World Cup and could not find any players of that ilk on any teams in an attempt to be called the best HOCKEY nation ..

However I now understand Bettman's growing the league concept now better with his suggestion to make the nets bigger and penalty boxes larger to increase scoring ..

mooseOAK* 05-16-2005 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
You know you're in trouble when your team goes into a season and prepares for the waiver draft and with ability to protect only 12 forwards you make Domi, Belak(waiver wire claim) and Perrott (minor leaguer trade Bob Wren) three of those protections in an attempt to employ a new and exciting style..

Who did he leave unprotected that would have helped?

Mess 05-16-2005 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Who did he leave unprotected that would have helped?

Real hockey players that are available via UFA in July and August for FREE , just like he got these guys, rather then get to October days before the Season is about to begin and then decide you perhaps are bringing a little to much muscle to the Prom ..

Then wait till the trade deadline to unload draft picks and prospects in mass quantities when you realize that the team you have isn't going to win you anything ..

Perhaps !!!!!!!!

If you are implying that the Leafs had nothing better then that to protect then perhaps you should focus your attention and ask yourself ..WHY ??

mooseOAK* 05-16-2005 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
Real hockey players that are available via UFA in July and August, rather then get to October days before the Season begins and then decide you perhaps are bringing a little to much muscle to the Prom ..

Then wait till the trade deadline to unload draft picks and prospects in mass quantities when you realize that the team you have isn't going to win you anything ..

Perhaps !!!!!!!!

If you are implying that the Leafs had nothing better then that to protect then perhaps you should focus your attention and ask yourself ..WHY ??

It happens all the time with a lot of teams. There are good players that are on the roster that are not waiver draft eligible and don't have to be listed, it doesn't include everyone.

Who did the Leafs expose in the waiver draft that was better than the ones they left protected?

joecool 05-16-2005 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevenSteen
Kaberle played a stellar game today as he even blocked a couple of shots and his zero-panic with the puck was strongly evident. Pierre Macguire commented after the game that Kaberle was an integral part of the Czech win and one of the best d-men in the tourney.

I believe we will see a #1 d-man for the Leafs in Tomas when the NHL resumes. Congrats to him on winning gold

I think your asessment represents his maximum upside in the near future. The fact that he is playing regularly is certainly good news for his development, and it is quite possible that he has gained the confidence to be more assertive in the NHL.

But remember that he's playing a different (IIHF) game - Macguire also said that Robert Reichel is almost certain to be in the IIHF HoF.

Because of the ice size, (1) you don't have to bulk up just to bull through people - you can be very effective using athletic ability to blow past people and (2) you have an extra bit of time to make a better read and a better pass/shot/deke/play.

Also, because it's in europe, the europeans seem to get far more emotional ... Last year ( or maybe it was '03 ) I saw Selanne hurtling himself at guys just to finish his checks. He really wanted to win.

I hope that Kabs can bring more of that intensity into play when the NHL resumes.

Mess 05-16-2005 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooseOAK
It happens all the time with a lot of teams. There are good players that are on the roster that are not waiver draft eligible and don't have to be listed, it doesn't include everyone.

Who did the Leafs expose in the waiver draft that was better than the ones they left protected?

Would keeping Travis Green been better then Belak or Perrott ??

Would protecting Dempsey rather then letting him walk for free?? ..2003-04 Totals 12 goals 20 assists 32 points .. Domi 20 pts, Belak 3 pts, Perrott 2 pts .. Total 25 points

For comparison purposes since this is a Kaberle thread

2003-04 totals
Tomas Kaberle ....3 goals .. 28 assists ....31 points
Nate Dempsey...12 goals ...20 assists ... 32 points
Ric Jackman .......9 goals....21 assists....30 points

Some coaches seem to get more out of players I guess ..

mooseOAK* 05-16-2005 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
Would keeping Travis Green been better then Belak or Perrott ??

Would protecting Dempsey rather then letting him walk for free?? ..2003-04 Totals 12 goals 20 assists 32 points .. Domi 20 pts, Belak 3 pts, Perrott 2 pts .. Total 25 points

For comparison purposes since this is a Kaberle thread

2003-04 totals
Tomas Kaberle ....3 goals .. 28 assists ....31 points
Nate Dempsey...12 goals ...20 assists ... 32 points
Ric Jackman .......9 goals....21 assists....30 points

Some coaches seem to get more out of players I guess ..

Last year's list was Ferguson's, not Quinn's.

Dempsey's numbers look nice but he wouldn't have gotten them if he didn't get the ice time from playing for bad teams.

Verbal Kint* 05-16-2005 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooseOAK
I see that there are still people clinging to the notion that Brewer will be a great defenceman.

Yep and one of them is Kevin Lowe, the man who currently owns the rights to Brewer and seems to have some sort of absession over him.

Kaberle for Breweer straight up would probably be a fair trade, but Lowe would demand more.

Mess 05-16-2005 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Last year's list was Ferguson's, not Quinn's.

Dempsey's numbers look nice but he wouldn't have gotten them if he didn't get the ice time from playing for bad teams.

Are you saying that the coach has not say in the players protected and exposed ??

Quinn needs to be given full credit for his ability as GM to come up with Perrott and Belak.. In order to put your GM in the position of having to protect them ..

Oh the Dempsey's numbers look good because of ice time defense .. I wonder how playing on a good team with talented players could effect your points .. What if Dempsey would have gotten Kaberle's ice time ?? Could he also have produce the same totals ??

mooseOAK* 05-16-2005 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
Are you saying that the coach has not say in the players protected and exposed ??

Quinn needs to be given full credit for his ability as GM to come up with Perrott and Belak.. In order to put your GM in the position of having to protect them ..

Oh the Dempsey's numbers look good because of ice time defense .. I wonder how playing on a good team with talented players could effect your points .. What if Dempsey would have gotten Kaberle's ice time ?? Could he also have produce the same totals ??

On the Leafs? Difficult question to answer because Dempsey was never good enough to be a top four defenceman for Toronto.

Perrott and Belak only needed to be protected because every team has to have a certain number of players on the list. It doesn't mean that they absolutely need them. One year the Leafs traded for Jarmo Myllys just to fill out their waiver list and let him go right afterwards.

ULF_55 05-16-2005 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
Are you saying that the coach has not say in the players protected and exposed ??

Quinn needs to be given full credit for his ability as GM to come up with Perrott and Belak.. In order to put your GM in the position of having to protect them ..

Oh the Dempsey's numbers look good because of ice time defense .. I wonder how playing on a good team with talented players could effect your points .. What if Dempsey would have gotten Kaberle's ice time ?? Could he also have produce the same totals ??


Quinn --- Dempsey
Burns --- Perreault


Only way these guys would have broken in with their respective coaches would have been if they weren't.

Some coaches just don't like some players, but that doesn't make them bad players or bad coaches, just an oil and water situation.

Mess 05-16-2005 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooseOAK
On the Leafs? Difficult question to answer because Dempsey was never good enough to be a top four defenceman for Toronto.

Perrott and Belak only needed to be protected because every team has to have a certain number of players on the list. It doesn't mean that they absolutely need them. One year the Leafs traded for Jarmo Myllys just to fill out their waiver list and let him go right afterwards.

See I understand the letting go part of Myllys part .. I still trying to figure out not only the protecting part but the playing part and being regular members of the team that thinks its good enough to win a Cup with them .. That is what I am questioning here ..

Mess 05-16-2005 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULF_55
Quinn --- Dempsey
Burns --- Perreault


Only way these guys would have broken in with their respective coaches would have been if they weren't.

Some coaches just don't like some players, but that doesn't make them bad players or bad coaches, just an oil and water situation.

Slight Correction : No ones perfect your bound to make a few mistakes in life right?

Quinn --- Dempsey --- Sullivan --- Modin --- Markov--McCauley -- etc ..

In fact the Leafs have very little left on the current roster that could even get any of those players back if they now wanted to ..

If the Leafs traded Kaberle he would likely end up a #1 dman on anther team even a bad one with lots of ice time . Yet for Quinn he toils along as a #3 dman despite proving that he can win awards and gold medals if given the right coaching.

Perhaps the Leaf don't need to buy and new Dmen .. Just utilize the ones they have better .. Or if that fails, bring over Vladimir Ruzicka now that he is free and let him work with Carlo, White, Bell, Vorobiev, Kronwall ?

bingo_vodun 05-16-2005 05:10 PM

Great for Kaberle... easyer to understand, give god you man made life, and he will give you his real life. Kaberle's going to be great.

mooseOAK* 05-16-2005 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
See I understand the letting go part of Myllys part .. I still trying to figure out not only the protecting part but the playing part and being regular members of the team that thinks its good enough to win a Cup with them .. That is what I am questioning here ..

Every team needs fourth liners and guys who are willing to fight, even the Cup winners have them.


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