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-   -   Penalties vs Each other (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1432985)

Cat Herder 05-20-2013 04:15 PM

Penalties vs Each other
 
So far this series the Sens have taken double the PIM's than the Pens (64 mins vs 32 mins if the whole penalty was played out)

In the regular season the Sens took 40 vs the Pens 34 (face to face)

I think Ottawa is getting called on the more borderline calls (aka Phillips pushing the Pens player). The Pens are allowed more leeway

The reason for this IMO is that the refs are hesitant to call against a superstar for borderline stuff, it has to be blatant (unless your name is Karlsson). With the Pens having more Star power than the Sens it is easier to call a penalty against a 3/4th line plug than it is against Crosby, Malkin, Neale, Morrow, Iginla, etc...

The refs avoid calling against our 'star' players too (IIRC) ..so you will not see many penalties against Alfie, Spezza or Turris.. the rest are fair game

wubwubwubwub 05-20-2013 04:19 PM

We also are more careless with our sticks and just generally make more plays that get us penalties. Although that has gotten less accurate as the series has gone on.

Fenix Rises 2026 05-20-2013 05:07 PM

Refs play off the momentum.

When the pens are applying pressure and we keep turning the puck over, the refs get caught up in it. We're probably 10 times more likely than the pens to get called for something in those situations, even if it was for an identical infraction.

Own the momentum and you own the refs.

Gesus 05-20-2013 05:25 PM

Half the penalties last night were complete and utter ********... There's no other way to put it.

StefanW 05-20-2013 05:52 PM

I have no interest in being one of those fans who complains about the calls. I prefer to make fun of Habs fans who are like that and are still whining about how the refs cost them the series in the first round.

Laszlo Panaflex 05-20-2013 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion (Post 66344763)
We also are more careless with our sticks and just generally make more plays that get us penalties. Although that has gotten less accurate as the series has gone on.

Pittsburgh has gotten away with 2 high sticks on Karlsson (Malkin in Game 2, and Cooke in Game 3) as well as Kunitz slashing the stick out of Karlsson's hands in game 3. None of those penalties were called, but good on the refs for calling Zack Smith for touching Malkin's helmet and calling it roughing. These refs are a ****ing joke.

yogibear 05-20-2013 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanW (Post 66347375)
I have no interest in being one of those fans who complains about the calls. I prefer to make fun of Habs fans who are like that and are still whining about how the refs cost them the series in the first round.

The habsfans were mostly complaining about the soccer goal by Zibby :cry:

mcnorth 05-20-2013 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanW (Post 66347375)
I have no interest in being one of those fans who complains about the calls. I prefer to make fun of Habs fans who are like that and are still whining about how the refs cost them the series in the first round.

Please, for the love of God, please separate those two things in your head. Find a way to separate when someone complains about a call from someone saying the refs decided the outcome. So many lump those two together automatically, and much of the time that's not what is said, but what is read, or read as insinuated/implied.

mcnorth 05-20-2013 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenix Rises 2026 (Post 66346091)
Refs play off the momentum.

When the pens are applying pressure and we keep turning the puck over, the refs get caught up in it. We're probably 10 times more likely than the pens to get called for something in those situations, even if it was for an identical infraction.

Own the momentum and you own the refs.

I'd argue much of it has to do with puck possession, but that could be argued as similar to momentum, so point taken. I think the Phillips call last night was very much indicative of the idea of puck possession, where it is taken as the Pen's puck and the Sen's only a matter of time until something is called. If we were cycling better (on the top two lines - successful cycling by the bottom six does not translate into penalties b/c there is no perceived scoring attempt being interfered with, of course) we'd get a lot more calls. But a simple thirty to forty seconds of puck control often ends in a penalty.

StefanW 05-20-2013 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnorth (Post 66348481)
Please, for the love of God, please separate those two things in your head. Find a way to separate when someone complains about a call from someone saying the refs decided the outcome. So many lump those two together automatically, and much of the time that's not what is said, but what is read, or read as insinuated/implied.

I do separate them. When we do it, it is good whining that is justified. When other fans do it, it is nauseating and completely unjustified. Those two things are perfectly distinct in my mind.

mcnorth 05-20-2013 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanW (Post 66348721)
I do separate them. When we do it, it is good whining that is justified. When other fans do it, it is nauseating and completely unjustified. Those two things are perfectly distinct in my mind.

hahaha

Well played.

Countdown0 05-20-2013 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanW (Post 66348721)
I do separate them. When we do it, it is good whining that is justified. When other fans do it, it is nauseating and completely unjustified. Those two things are perfectly distinct in my mind.

Um... right.

So, the call against Gryba in game 1 vs the Habs was fine, and we were all just "whining" when he got kicked out for a clean hit, right?

Or how about Karlsson's stick getting broken without it even making contact with Cooke, and then EK get's a penalty. I guess it would be "whining" to point that out too, huh?

No, see, here is the divide.

Some people whine, some people complain, and some people simply point out the facts. The fact is that the Sens have been given twice as many penalty minutes in this series than the Pens, at 64. That averages out at more than 10 minor penalties per game. We are a physical team, but we aren't a dirty team. No way we should get double the minutes of the Pens. People might say it IS because we are physical, but the Pens out hit us in games 1 and 2.

Sorry if you consider this "whining", but the refs have their heads so far up Crybaby's ass that they could chew his food for him.

Nac Mac Feegle 05-20-2013 08:27 PM

I don't care about the number of penalties a team gets. If something is a penalty, it's a penalty.

But for the love of mike, be consistent. You simply can't ignore high sticks drawing blood, sticks slashed out of your hand and broken, etc. If one team can hack and slash, then allow it for both teams. If one team can throw big clean hits, then allow it for both teams.

Cat Herder 05-20-2013 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle (Post 66354761)
I don't care about the number of penalties a team gets. If something is a penalty, it's a penalty.

But for the love of mike, be consistent. You simply can't ignore high sticks drawing blood, sticks slashed out of your hand and broken, etc. If one team can hack and slash, then allow it for both teams. If one team can throw big clean hits, then allow it for both teams.


Exactly my thoughts and my point for this thread

The Latvian 05-20-2013 10:57 PM

It really frustrates me how Pittsburgh has had 4 of the first 5 powerplays in back to back games. And both these games there were obvious infractions against pittsburgh in the first minutes of the game.

Topside 05-20-2013 11:02 PM

Zack Smith getting two minutes for touching Malkin is hilarious.

Countdown0 05-21-2013 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topside (Post 66363751)
Zack Smith getting two minutes for touching Malkin is hilarious.

I was mad when that happened. Not surprised. But mad :rant::rant::rant::rant:

krapsik 05-21-2013 04:55 AM

For me problem is not what is called and what is not , but when this calls/no-calls happened. Refs are pretty much trying to kill our momentum. Good examples are game 1 and 3. In first game, we are back 2-1. Last ten minutes of second period we totally dominated pens. One or two deserved calls, and it could be tye game. But no, Pens got away with several no calls, best is Orpik croschecking on Conacher. Situation ended with Pens PP and 3-1.
Game 3. We kill penalty and play pretty good PP. After PP we cicle hard in their zone, momentum in our hand. But instead of new deserved PP we soo ridiculous diving call on Karlsson. Instead of playing PP we play 4 on 4.
I predict in game 4 we play PK till Pens are up 3-0 or something. We can not troll refs two times in a row.

CordPara 05-21-2013 07:14 AM

Why do I always hear fans complaining about EQUALIZING the penalty minutes?

Is there some kind of quota or rule that says two teams should get equal amounts of penalties?

The Pens are faster and spend much more time in the Ottawa zone. This makes perfect sense as to why they get more penalties called. Most penalties are taken in the offending team's defensive zone trying to stop scoring opportunities. The Pens have had WAY more scoring opportunities.

Am I wrong here? Why should there be a tendency to "even things out?" Why can't a penalty just be a penalty no matter who takes it and what time of the game it is, and no matter how many that team has already had called on it?

Hockey seems to be the only sport where people think the refs "should even things up" instead of just calling a penalty when a penalty occurs.

Cat Herder 05-21-2013 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CordPara (Post 66369535)
Why do I always hear fans complaining about EQUALIZING the penalty minutes?

Is there some kind of quota or rule that says two teams should get equal amounts of penalties?

The Pens are faster and spend much more time in the Ottawa zone. This makes perfect sense as to why they get more penalties called. Most penalties are taken in the offending team's defensive zone trying to stop scoring opportunities. The Pens have had WAY more scoring opportunities.

Am I wrong here? Why should there be a tendency to "even things out?" Why can't a penalty just be a penalty no matter who takes it and what time of the game it is, and no matter how many that team has already had called on it?

Hockey seems to be the only sport where people think the refs "should even things up" instead of just calling a penalty when a penalty occurs.


I am not advocating even up penalties.. I am saying that if it is a penalty for one team then it should be a penalty for the other team

NyQuil 05-21-2013 08:08 AM

It's not the number of penalties.

It's the ones they select for infractions that are so mind-boggling.

arglebargle 05-21-2013 08:17 AM

It's especially amazing to me what the Pens get away with in front of their own net. Just watch the slot/crease area when the puck is in the corner. In addition to the usual pushing/light crosschecking they will outright trip, slash and otherwise mug the guy in front of the net, and they never get called for it.

And don't give me that crap about everyone getting away with it. The Sens don't do it because they know they'd get called for it. The Habs weren't doing this sort of stuff either. The Pens get a lot more room to play dirty and they are clearly aware of it.

Senateurs 05-21-2013 08:24 AM

There will always be missed calls, on both sides. But if you're going to call a penalty, call something that has to do with the play.

Smith's roughing penalty was a joke. Things like that happens on every single play and after every whistles.

It also looks like stick slashes are only called on Sens players and it's open season for elbow hits to Sens players head.

CordPara 05-21-2013 09:54 AM

Go to ANY message board for ANY team in the NHL.

EVERY fan base says "The other team gets away with murder....OUR team always gets the short end of the calls."

Come on guys you are just looking through Sens-colored glasses. Even when you win you still complain about the refs!

Must be a Canadian thing. :) :) :)

OgieO 05-21-2013 10:12 AM

Sens have been on the short end of the stick on calls for years now. That's not opinion, that's fact. We get called for more penalties than are called against our opponents and we're usually near the very bottom of the league in that regard. It's can't be our style either as that's changed significantly with our different coaches. I don't think the league is conspiring against us, but I think there are other biases at play that influence officials (they are human and influenced by things even if not intentional).

That trend has continued this series.

Missing the high stick on Karlsson was an egregious miss, the puck was right there and there wasn't an obstructed view. Likewise, calling Smith for roughing was a terrible call. Orpik alone got away with far worse multiple times in the same game. The Pens run interference on just about every faceoff and Sens dump in, but only the Sens have been called for either infraction this series.

Do I think there is a conspiracy? No way. Do I think the series is 2-1 Pitt because of the refs? No way. They are up because they've been the better team. Do I think the Penguins have benefited from poor officiating? Definitely.


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