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-   -   Vancouver Proposal: Sedins for .. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=143609)

Path Of The Beserker 05-19-2005 03:53 AM

Vancouver Proposal: Sedins for ..
 
Get Rid of the Sedins who knows they may be a hit somewhere else. maybe toss in say Kiril Koltsov or Brandon Reid and a draft pick. What could they get in return? mainly a Center and a Left Wing.???
Im not against the Sedins or anything, but would like to find out what kind of depth the nucks could bring in in return for the Sedins. I think there would be some interested teams that would be willing to give them more ice time and see how they produce.

kmad 05-19-2005 03:56 AM

to waivers: heatley wanted

Path Of The Beserker 05-19-2005 03:58 AM

put them on waivers? are they worth that much to someone?lol

Safir* 05-19-2005 04:46 AM

Let me just recap.

You offer:

- Daniel Sedin
- Henrik Sedin
- Kiril Koltsov or Brandon Reid (a Hamburg Freezer nowadays)
- a draft pick


Maybe Florida is a potential trade partner.

- Weiss
- Stewart
- a pick

kmad 05-19-2005 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heatley wanted
put them on waivers? are they worth that much to someone?lol

I meant send you to waivers

the Sedins are not going anywhere

Path Of The Beserker 05-19-2005 04:59 AM

some of the people here amaze me...
IF you were offering them, Not SINCE they are being offered. As far as I am concerned, this section of the board is more for fun than real heresay or will happens. Whats the percentage of the trades you or anyone elsee here have proposed that have gone through.
Have there not been other times it's been said that "they AREN'T going anywhere" and sure s**t they get traded?
Just Curious.....

McDonald19 05-19-2005 06:05 AM

Is there any reason that they need to be traded together?

split them up and see what happens it's not like having them together has been that amazing.

PhillyPhantoms 05-19-2005 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McDonald19
Is there any reason that they need to be traded together?

split them up and see what happens it's not like having them together has been that amazing.

I don't think any team would really want to take the risk of splitting them up, mainly because they don't know how they would play without each other.

What I don't get it is why everyone is so down on the Sedins. :dunno: For how weak their draft class was, I think that they were the right picks and have done well.

Path Of The Beserker 05-19-2005 11:41 AM

as I stated. I am not down on them. I think maybe its time for the canucks to try a little tweeking. New GM and all, maybe he should try and make the team his own a little bit.
Maybe some different goaltending(besides auld, hes a keeper) and something a bit different at the forward position.?
Just my opinion. I am quite new at these type of boards, so just feeling my way around right now. thanks for the opinions everyone.

NFITO 05-19-2005 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heatley wanted
some of the people here amaze me...
IF you were offering them, Not SINCE they are being offered. As far as I am concerned, this section of the board is more for fun than real heresay or will happens. Whats the percentage of the trades you or anyone elsee here have proposed that have gone through.
Have there not been other times it's been said that "they AREN'T going anywhere" and sure s**t they get traded?
Just Curious.....

this part of the board still needs to have some reason behind the suggested deals... sure it's all for fun - but then don't be suprised when you get logical replies back where it doesn't make sense to deal them...

offers like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomACE
Let me just recap.

You offer:

- Daniel Sedin
- Henrik Sedin
- Kiril Koltsov or Brandon Reid (a Hamburg Freezer nowadays)
- a draft pick


Maybe Florida is a potential trade partner.

- Weiss
- Stewart
- a pick

are really a joke, that won't work... think about it? are the canucks or the panthers the rebuilding team here?

The canucks are going to move 2 guys that are among the top scoring per minute players in the league - which is great production for 2nd line players - for a couple of prospects that have a lot more to prove?

The canucks aren't going to rebuild their team right now... they aren't going to move 2 top 6 forwards, that have only been getting better, and are coming off solid years in the SEL and WC, for a couple of guys that might not make our top 3 lines, let alone top 6 roles.

I'm not saying that this board shouldn't be used for suggestions like this - but there should be some logic behind it... not simply dropping players for the sake of moving them and what they could get back in return. The Sedins - we've seen examples on this board for it for years now - aren't going to bring back value among HF fans here that the canucks would need back in order to move them.

For the canucks to move the Sedins, you need back 2 guys that are going to replace them in the top 6 for the same immediate impact that the Sedins already give, while being at the same salary level that these two players are in (considering our already $43mill payroll)...

realistically, is there any team in the league that can offer that - basically we need 2 players that are at least as good now as the Sedins are, to move them... we need 2 Sedin-types basically to move the Sedins, so why it makes no sense to deal them.

The Sedins - because of this - simply won't be moved..... their value to the team is HIGH whether the Sedin bashers want to admit it or not... 2 players in your top 6 that are scoring at fine level (points per minute, there aren't many players better than them - and in a 2nd line role, what more can you ask for?), that are making less than the league's average salary, and are young and still improving - and have shown improvement over the past few years.

I'd like to see one logical trade that makes sense for the canucks, where the can replace the Sedins role in the lineup, and replace their salaries - and either get players that are better now, but don't have the upside, or players that are as good now, and have the same upside. But the fact remains that since the canucks are not a rebuilding team, they can't afford to move the Sedins for a present downgrade in their top 6 roles.

does this make sense?

PhillyPhantoms 05-19-2005 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
this part of the board still needs to have some reason behind the suggested deals... sure it's all for fun - but then don't be suprised when you get logical replies back where it doesn't make sense to deal them...

offers like this:



are really a joke, that won't work... think about it? are the canucks or the panthers the rebuilding team here?

The canucks are going to move 2 guys that are among the top scoring per minute players in the league - which is great production for 2nd line players - for a couple of prospects that have a lot more to prove?

The canucks aren't going to rebuild their team right now... they aren't going to move 2 top 6 forwards, that have only been getting better, and are coming off solid years in the SEL and WC, for a couple of guys that might not make our top 3 lines, let alone top 6 roles.

I'm not saying that this board shouldn't be used for suggestions like this - but there should be some logic behind it... not simply dropping players for the sake of moving them and what they could get back in return. The Sedins - we've seen examples on this board for it for years now - aren't going to bring back value among HF fans here that the canucks would need back in order to move them.

For the canucks to move the Sedins, you need back 2 guys that are going to replace them in the top 6 for the same immediate impact that the Sedins already give, while being at the same salary level that these two players are in (considering our already $43mill payroll)...

realistically, is there any team in the league that can offer that - basically we need 2 players that are at least as good now as the Sedins are, to move them... we need 2 Sedin-types basically to move the Sedins, so why it makes no sense to deal them.

The Sedins - because of this - simply won't be moved..... their value to the team is HIGH whether the Sedin bashers want to admit it or not... 2 players in your top 6 that are scoring at fine level (points per minute, there aren't many players better than them - and in a 2nd line role, what more can you ask for?), that are making less than the league's average salary, and are young and still improving - and have shown improvement over the past few years.

I'd like to see one logical trade that makes sense for the canucks, where the can replace the Sedins role in the lineup, and replace their salaries - and either get players that are better now, but don't have the upside, or players that are as good now, and have the same upside. But the fact remains that since the canucks are not a rebuilding team, they can't afford to move the Sedins for a present downgrade in their top 6 roles.

does this make sense?

Very well put, my thoughts exactly :handclap:

ZombieMatt 05-19-2005 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomACE
Let me just recap.

- Kiril Koltsov or Brandon Reid (a Hamburg Freezer nowadays)

Actually Reid signed to play in the Swiss league next season.

ShippinItDaily 05-19-2005 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
this part of the board still needs to have some reason behind the suggested deals... sure it's all for fun - but then don't be suprised when you get logical replies back where it doesn't make sense to deal them...

offers like this:



are really a joke, that won't work... think about it? are the canucks or the panthers the rebuilding team here?

The canucks are going to move 2 guys that are among the top scoring per minute players in the league - which is great production for 2nd line players - for a couple of prospects that have a lot more to prove?

The canucks aren't going to rebuild their team right now... they aren't going to move 2 top 6 forwards, that have only been getting better, and are coming off solid years in the SEL and WC, for a couple of guys that might not make our top 3 lines, let alone top 6 roles.

I'm not saying that this board shouldn't be used for suggestions like this - but there should be some logic behind it... not simply dropping players for the sake of moving them and what they could get back in return. The Sedins - we've seen examples on this board for it for years now - aren't going to bring back value among HF fans here that the canucks would need back in order to move them.

For the canucks to move the Sedins, you need back 2 guys that are going to replace them in the top 6 for the same immediate impact that the Sedins already give, while being at the same salary level that these two players are in (considering our already $43mill payroll)...

realistically, is there any team in the league that can offer that - basically we need 2 players that are at least as good now as the Sedins are, to move them... we need 2 Sedin-types basically to move the Sedins, so why it makes no sense to deal them.

The Sedins - because of this - simply won't be moved..... their value to the team is HIGH whether the Sedin bashers want to admit it or not... 2 players in your top 6 that are scoring at fine level (points per minute, there aren't many players better than them - and in a 2nd line role, what more can you ask for?), that are making less than the league's average salary, and are young and still improving - and have shown improvement over the past few years.

I'd like to see one logical trade that makes sense for the canucks, where the can replace the Sedins role in the lineup, and replace their salaries - and either get players that are better now, but don't have the upside, or players that are as good now, and have the same upside. But the fact remains that since the canucks are not a rebuilding team, they can't afford to move the Sedins for a present downgrade in their top 6 roles.

does this make sense?

Ok how about this:

To Vancouver:
Ryder
Ribeiro

To Montreal:
H Sedin
D Sedin

Value seems prety fair as both teams give up 2 young top 6 forwards for 2 of the same in return. Ryder and Ribiero have both had better seasons than the Sedins have but the Sedins are both a bit younger I believe and have maybe a little more upside. It would depend on how each team feels on their respective players before this type of a deal would be done but seems fair to me.

NFITO 05-19-2005 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangler19
Ok how about this:

To Vancouver:
Ryder
Ribeiro

To Montreal:
H Sedin
D Sedin

Value seems prety fair as both teams give up 2 young top 6 forwards for 2 of the same in return. Ryder and Ribiero have both had better seasons than the Sedins have but the Sedins are both a bit younger I believe and have maybe a little more upside. It would depend on how each team feels on their respective players before this type of a deal would be done but seems fair to me.

I wouldn't touch this deal... I like Ryder a lot, but I'm not at all high on Riberio.

While Riberio is scoring well, Henrik has a better 2-way game, and is getting better each season in it. And his chemistry with Daniel is undeniable.

I wouldn't touch this deal as a result. I honestly can't see a deal take place for these guys... to get them from Vancouver, because of the factors involved - age, salary, chemistry, upside, current production and role with the team - it would have to be an overpayment for them to be moved - and Ryder and Riberio IMO is not an overpayment (although a much more reasonable offer than the Florida example).

We already get what we need from these guys... they fit a need, and they deliver. I don't see the reason to start entertaining offers for them at all - and any player in this situation - you can add Ryder, Koivu, Theodore and others - if they fit the team and address team needs, why would you deal them without an offer that is simply too good to refuse?

Ryder and Riberio for the Sedins is just not that kind of offer.

value wise, we could probably come up with a lot of fair deals, that teams simply wouldn't touch, because it makes no sense for them to make the swap - like this case for the canucks.

ShippinItDaily 05-19-2005 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
I wouldn't touch this deal... I like Ryder a lot, but I'm not at all high on Riberio.

While Riberio is scoring well, Henrik has a better 2-way game, and is getting better each season in it. And his chemistry with Daniel is undeniable.

I wouldn't touch this deal as a result. I honestly can't see a deal take place for these guys... to get them from Vancouver, because of the factors involved - age, salary, chemistry, upside, current production and role with the team - it would have to be an overpayment for them to be moved - and Ryder and Riberio IMO is not an overpayment (although a much more reasonable offer than the Florida example).

We already get what we need from these guys... they fit a need, and they deliver. I don't see the reason to start entertaining offers for them at all - and any player in this situation - you can add Ryder, Koivu, Theodore and others - if they fit the team and address team needs, why would you deal them without an offer that is simply too good to refuse?

Ryder and Riberio for the Sedins is just not that kind of offer.

value wise, we could probably come up with a lot of fair deals, that teams simply wouldn't touch, because it makes no sense for them to make the swap - like this case for the canucks.


I kind of figured this would be your response and it is very reasonable. This deal would probably make a lot more sense for Vancouver if Ryder and Ribeiro had another season each of 65+ points and the Sedins didnt show any more improvement over their next season.

Their are probably a lot of Montreal fans who wouldnt touch this either because of the fact that Ribeiro and Ryder both have shown that they can score at a higher level than the Sedins. But like I said before, this type of deal is all about how each team feels about thier respective players. Which is I guess, what you are saying anyways.

NFITO 05-19-2005 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangler19
I kind of figured this would be your response and it is very reasonable. This deal would probably make a lot more sense for Vancouver if Ryder and Ribeiro had another season each of 65+ points and the Sedins didnt show any more improvement over their next season.

Their are probably a lot of Montreal fans who wouldnt touch this either because of the fact that Ribeiro and Ryder both have shown that they can score at a higher level than the Sedins. But like I said before, this type of deal is all about how each team feels about thier respective players. Which is I guess, what you are saying anyways.

yes.. it would make a lot more sense if Ryder and Riberio had 65+ points again, and the Sedins didn't show any improvement... but then again, it'd make more sense for the canucks, but not much sense at all for the habs.

The Sedins have proven enough though that you just can't deal them yet. They are still only 24 - and were huge for their teams at the WC.. they had solid years in the SEL, and before that, were having solid years in Vancouver - Henrik showing he can play strong 2-way hockey, and Daniel breaking out offensively in many ways, being one of the highest scoring LWs in the game, and among the top points per minute guys in the league... both have gotten stronger, and can take punishment out there as good as anyone and still keep their level of play up, and not have injury problems because of it... both have proven that they raise their level of play in the playoffs, and anyone that thinks these guys are soft doesn't know these players at all.

If they get 16-17 mins of icetime, I think you'll see numbers a lot closer to what Ryder and Riberio had getting the 16-17 mins last year... Daniel played in 13 1/2 mins a game.

They've also proven to improve the play of the players they've played with - usually 3rd liners for the most part. And if you watch them play, their biggest strength - and I've been saying this for the last 3 years now! - is that they hardly give up any scoring chances against when they're on the ice. The majority of every shift they play, the puck is in the offensive zone, and both guys are good at getting it out of their zone quickly and changing the attack. They've been consistent in this since they came into the NHL - and something that usually gets ignored as part of their strengths.

Riberio and Ryder could very easily have better careers in the NHL... they could be top line players in their prime, while the Sedins could have their development stopped and remain 2nd liners through their career... but at the age they're at, and the development they have consistently shown, I'll take my chances with the Sedins long term.

salzy 05-19-2005 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McDonald19
Is there any reason that they need to be traded together?

split them up and see what happens it's not like having them together has been that amazing.

I remember in the days leading up to that draft hearing how some team might try to trade up and get both of them, not just because they were going to be great players, but because of the marketing magic you could create with 2 young guys who are twins like that. lol - have I missed all the mammoth endorsement deals they've signed?

salzy 05-19-2005 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
I wouldn't touch this deal... I like Ryder a lot, but I'm not at all high on Riberio.

From what I can tell, nobody outside la belle province is all that high on Ribeiro.

Legionnaire 05-19-2005 05:13 PM

IMO, it would be stupid to get rid of the Sedins now. They have improved almost every season they've played in the league, and could break out given ice time. I mean look what they were able to do with around 13/14 minutes a game last season

PhillyPhantoms 05-19-2005 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salzy
I remember in the days leading up to that draft hearing how some team might try to trade up and get both of them, not just because they were going to be great players, but because of the marketing magic you could create with 2 young guys who are twins like that. lol - have I missed all the mammoth endorsement deals they've signed?

There was a poster with many players endorsing some brand of hockey equipment (forget what brand it was) in a local hockey shop here, and Daniel Sedin was on it. Henrik wasn't tho :dunno:

Path Of The Beserker 05-19-2005 06:10 PM

OK Well if the nucks arent going to move these two. what would be sensible for them to do to shape the team a bit, goaltending isnt the greatest and they havent done super in the playoffs. I dont think just having bertuzzi back will get a magical trip to finals for them. Wait and see? Sign a free agent or two? or make some smaller type of trades? I would like to see a change in goaltending and maybe a decent right winger to go with the sedins since they are staying? any opinions.

monster_bertuzzi 05-19-2005 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legionnaire
IMO, it would be stupid to get rid of the Sedins now. They have improved almost every season they've played in the league, and could break out given ice time. I mean look what they were able to do with around 13/14 minutes a game last season

Daniel could easily break out and be a 65+ point scorer. Hell he had 55 last year in about 75 games. This was playing with his twin and Jason King/Wade Brookbank. Sadly I think Hank Sedin will always be a 40/50 point scorer.

Path Of The Beserker 05-19-2005 06:13 PM

nucks fan in TO. thanks and yes it does make sense.

Matty 05-19-2005 06:15 PM

Well if I were Nonis, the only way I would trade the Sedins is if I could get a bonafied #1 star center who is young in return. Guys like Lecavalier, Thornton, Spezza, Staal...

Would any of those teams part with those guys? Highly unlikely. Thus, the Sedins wouldn't be going anywhere if I were Nonis...

hockeyfan125 05-19-2005 06:47 PM

Would not touch that deal at all.


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