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-   -   Proposal: Would you Make this Deal? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1436147)

StefanW 05-26-2013 09:07 AM

Would you Make this Deal?
 
Punidts, who are never wrong of course, have said that the biggest thing missing in the Sens lineup is a power forward who can play on Spezza's wing. Many fans agree with this. Of the UFAs available Iginla, Horton, or Dupuis fit the bill well enough and would only cost us salary, so that is probably our first choice. However, none of those players are likely to sign here.

So what happens then? I'll start with a scenario that played out with fans in general on the main boards, and put it out there to see what Sens fans in particular think.

Lets say we make a play on draft day for a player like Bobby Ryan. We begin with the assumption that we have to give something to get something, and we start with Silf or Zibby, include Wiercioch plus our 1 round pick this year. They counter with specifying Zibby and taking out Wiercioch and adding Cowen.

Gulp.

If you were the GM of the Sens what would you do? Is it a Hell yeah, a stand firm, or a "we can grow our own, the original offer was already too much"?

Raymei 05-26-2013 09:23 AM

Not worth it in my mind. Zib looks to be that top six forward in the future and he is not even 20 yet. For Cowen I will give him this year as a write off for both being is real softmore year and coming back from a long term injury.

sens2k9 05-26-2013 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanW (Post 66614973)
Punidts, who are never wrong of course, have said that the biggest thing missing in the Sens lineup is a power forward who can play on Spezza's wing. Many fans agree with this. Of the UFAs available Iginla, Horton, or Dupuis fit the bill well enough and would only cost us salary, so that is probably our first choice. However, none of those players are likely to sign here.

So what happens then? I'll start with a scenario that played out with fans in general on the main boards, and put it out there to see what Sens fans in particular think.

Lets say we make a play on draft day for a player like Bobby Ryan. We begin with the assumption that we have to give something to get something, and we start with Silf or Zibby, include Wiercioch plus our 1 round pick this year. They counter with specifying Zibby and taking out Wiercioch and adding Cowen.

Gulp.

If you were the GM of the Sens what would you do? Is it a Hell yeah, a stand firm, or a "we can grow our own, the original offer was already too much"?

Way too much for Bobby Ryan.

I know we have to give to get but this is too much.
Top 3/4 D plus a top 6 forward? For a top 6 forward.

I agree Bobby Ryan is a good player but if we're giving up two blue-chip roster players and a 1st rounder I'd expect more than him.

edit: I'd rather poach a team that under-performed, like St. Louis. Anaheim was smoke and mirrors this year.

Ohhh Franco 05-26-2013 09:24 AM

Nope. Cowen is untouchable. Some people tend to forget that he's ONLY 22...and he's 6'5, 230lbs...and is pretty damn mobile...and has a mean streak that Im sure will become more evident as he becomes more confident.

He's a huge building block and will hopefully be a Senator for a decade plus.

BonkTastic 05-26-2013 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanW (Post 66614973)
Punidts, who are never wrong of course, have said that the biggest thing missing in the Sens lineup is a power forward who can play on Spezza's wing. Sens fans in particular think.

OK, I'm with you here. Power forward. Yeah, I can get behind that. Agreed. Who are we talking about targeting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanW (Post 66614973)
Lets say we make a play on draft day for a player like Bobby Ryan.

I thi... wait, what? Ryan? I thought we were talking about power forwards?

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanW (Post 66614973)
we start with Silf or Zibby, include Wiercioch plus our 1 round pick this year. They counter with specifying Zibby and taking out Wiercioch and adding Cowen.

Too much, IMO. Maybe it's because I'm not as high on Ryan as others are?

Also: if you're giving me the choice of keeping Cowen or Wier, I'm choosing Cowen 11 times out of 10.

StefanW 05-26-2013 09:36 AM

Agreed that adding Cowen is an overpayment. But how about Zibby+Wiecioch+1st round pick? That was the original proposal before the counter-offer.

StefanW 05-26-2013 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonkTastic (Post 66615509)
OK, I'm with you here. Power forward. Yeah, I can get behind that. Agreed. Who are we talking about targeting?


Simmons came up too. I chose Ryan for this thread because his name has come up often on this board as a potential trade target. Simmons also frightens me because he is a minus player despite being near the bottom of his team in QoC rating. On the flip side Simmons has an extremely attractive long term contract that is exceptionally team friendly.

KarlSen 05-26-2013 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohhh Franco (Post 66615311)
Nope. Cowen is untouchable. Some people tend to forget that he's ONLY 22...and he's 6'5, 230lbs...and is pretty damn mobile...and has a mean streak that Im sure will become more evident as he becomes more confident.

He's a huge building block and will hopefully be a Senator for a decade plus.

Yup, dominant D-Men are rare beasts. Cowen made great progress last year and played great against the Rangers. He clearly needs time for conditioning and rehab. In the long term he is going to be a core player for the team.

Ohhh Franco 05-26-2013 09:48 AM

I'd MUCH rather Simmonds than Ryan!

He's younger, signed long term, is Canadian and plays much more aggressively. I'd love him in a Sens jersey.

Regardless, Im still not parting with Cowen to get him.

playasRus 05-26-2013 10:01 AM

Trades like this are more realistic if based around prospects with high potential than young roster players with potential.

Icelevel 05-26-2013 10:08 AM

no. bobby ryan is a little over rated. not way over rated, but a little. i also can't see him thrilled to come to ottawa from anaheim.
edit: i wouldn't do cowen for ryan straight up. cowen stays

great1 05-26-2013 10:10 AM

The only way I would consider trading Cowen is if he was part of a package for a game changing player like Tavares.

MAK19 05-26-2013 10:17 AM

Agreed with Bonk. Ryan is overrated

Do Make Say Think 05-26-2013 10:18 AM

No way

I'm down for Ryan in Ottawa but not at the cost of Zib + Cowen

I'd trade Zib or Cowen but not both

Zib + Wier

Da Costa + Cowen

More along the lines of what I'd be ok with, remember that if Ryan is moved it's because Anaheim wants to, the asking price won't be ridiculous

Orr123 05-26-2013 10:31 AM

Personally I wouldn't want to trade both those players. I think both are pretty key, so trading one is fine, but trading two will likely leave us with another hole in our roster we don't want.

I totally get having to trade an asset to get an asset. But I wouldn't be willing to trade a few assets to get one. Especially with so many unknowns.

The more I think about it, the more I'd love to see how this team can play with a full off season of training, and a season of health (at least more health than this year). And see how they fair. Then see who you want to build your team around, and make a trade at the deadline when teams can be a little more desperate.

StefanW 05-26-2013 11:00 AM

I'll re-ask the question that a lot of people missed.

The original offer was Zibby+Wiercioch+1st. Does this seem fair to get Ryan?

Ohhh Franco 05-26-2013 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanW (Post 66617709)
I'll re-ask the question that a lot of people missed.

The original offer was Zibby+Wiercioch+1st. Does this seem fair to get Ryan?

Way too much. You gotta figure Ryan would be here for only two years. He's a UFA at the end of his current deal and seems like the kind of guy who'll want to strike it rich and play where he wants.

Zibby and Wier are legit NHLers with nothing but upside and are under team control long term. Throw in a mid round 1st in a relatively strong draft? Too much in my opinion.

Stonewall 05-26-2013 11:15 AM

I'd only want to trade Zibby or Silf for a top tier player like Benn or Hall.

BonkTastic 05-26-2013 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stonewall (Post 66618145)
I'd only want to trade Zibby or Silf for a top tier player like Benn or Hall.

Problem with that line of thinking is, if you had Benn or Hall already, there's no way you'd want to trade them for Zibby or Silf.

Stonewall 05-26-2013 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonkTastic (Post 66618179)
Problem with that line of thinking is, if you had Benn or Hall already, there's no way you'd want to trade them for Zibby or Silf.

Plus other pieces of course, I'm not too greedy. :D

Jerk Store 05-26-2013 11:41 AM

Let's not overrate our own players, guys. We all remember how foolish some of us looked after the Foligno trade, me included. We'd do Cowen straight up for Ryan. Obviously not the best scenario for us though

MainDotC 05-26-2013 12:11 PM

Whether or not we would make this deal is really irrelevant because none of us have the power to weigh in and Bryan Murray does not get his advice from hf. Nice to see you keeping the team in mind, though.

Kezia 05-26-2013 12:48 PM

Not even close to fair value. Would not do.

Do Make Say Think 05-26-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanW (Post 66617709)
I'll re-ask the question that a lot of people missed.

The original offer was Zibby+Wiercioch+1st. Does this seem fair to get Ryan?

Way too much

If that's the price of getting him let another team overpay for Ryan; if someone ends up giving up that much it's because of a bidding war

Players of Ryan's calibre are clearly needed in Ottawa but not at any cost

Tundraman 05-26-2013 01:01 PM

We are starting from a wrong premise because the pundits are wrong about us needing only 1 piece.

This season is a poor one to assess the needs of the Sens. Consider how many guys have been in and out of the lineup. Look at how many 1st year or 2nd year guys we are playing and then look at who might or will be leaving the team. Are Zib, Silfv, Cowen, Gryba, Wier, Conacher, Pageau, Hoffman etc... fully developed or even assessed as to potential? I don't think so. Why make a move now that costs multiple players. A mature power forward is only a piece of the puzzle we will eventually need but we are probably better to grow our own or do it as with Turris by trading for a less costly up and comer. If you remove 2-3 semi developed pieces to add one somewhere else you are not any further ahead you will always be in rebuild mode trying to fill the other holes waiting for someone to step up from among the new batch of rookies. A one for one trade might be ok depending who it is with a pick thrown in for the right player but that's as far as I'd go. High on my list would be a right D.


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