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-   -   2013 Official NHL Draft Discussion Thread II (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1437387)

PWJunior 05-28-2013 03:44 PM

2013 Official NHL Draft Discussion Thread II
 
Let's continue the discussion here.

Part I: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1279441

islandermaniac 05-28-2013 03:51 PM

@scott99:

so why not draft a kid like gauthier instead of mantha?

PWJunior 05-28-2013 03:53 PM

@duster

Horvat has moved up to #10 on the latest ISS rankings. Seems like he probably won't be available at #15. He's moving up fast.

islandermaniac 05-28-2013 04:03 PM

@duster19:

perhaps no mention of horvat because people think he will be gone by the time the isles pick?

another reason why people around here could be quiet about him is because he is not a flashy and dashy kind of player. i don't think he will ever be accused of being dynamic...then again, ron francis wasn't dynamic either, and he posted 550 goals and 1800 points in his career. from what i've seen of him (only once live this year, unfortunately) is that he does things/has traits that will guarantee him to be a serviceable nhl player for years to come: good size, decent skater, good hands, plays in dirty areas, face off whiz, smart defensive player, good shot, etc.

anyway, if he falls to 15 and the isles take him i will be cool with that. he is the type of guy you win with...a multi-dimensional player.

boredmale 05-28-2013 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWJunior (Post 66703459)
@duster

Horvat has moved up to #10 on the latest ISS rankings. Seems like he probably won't be available at #15. He's moving up fast.

Personally I would like Horvat or Lazar to fall to us they both very similar but Lazar seems slightly bigger/strong/etc and he is also good on faceoffs(Horvat seems to have a slightly better offensive upside)

islandermaniac 05-28-2013 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boredmale (Post 66703947)
Personally I would like Horvat or Lazar to fall to us they both very similar but Lazar seems slightly bigger/strong/etc and he is also good on faceoffs(Horvat seems to have a slightly better offensive upside)

actually, i think horvat is a little beefier than lazar. and if lazar were to beat horvat in a face-off contest, i would be shocked because horvat doesn't lose many.

InformTheMasses 05-28-2013 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boredmale (Post 66703947)
Personally I would like Horvat or Lazar to fall to us they both very similar but Lazar seems slightly bigger/strong/etc and he is also good on faceoffs(Horvat seems to have a slightly better offensive upside)

Lazar bigger or stronger than Horvat? No. They are basically identical in size/strength. Lazar is a much better skater and faster than Horvat though. Which Probably makes him a better fit for the Islanders.

I'd still take Rychel over either one of them though. He may not skate as good as Lazar or even Horvat, but he is a lot stronger and tougher than them as well as being a better defensive forward, AND he has their puck skills, and can score at a similar rate. Then of course there is Gauthier who is a two way forward and is 6'5" 215 already and he just turned 18 last month.

Lazar and Horvat are your speedy two way centers (Lazar having more speed)
Rychel and Gauthier are your bigger more physical 2 way centers (Gauthier being the biggest).

All of them have NHL skating, so its a matter of preference. All have their share of intangibles, but I think Rychel has the most.

Chapin Landvogt 05-28-2013 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmorris
Calvin De Haan was slated for the second round and the Islanders moved up twice to get him in the first round. While I would certainly agree that they would be smart if they could trade back, add another couple of draft picks, and pick any of those guys in the 20s, the Islanders won't risk the player they like not being there. If they like a kid, they'll take him at 15.

de Haan:
We talked about those moves quite a bit in the just ended draft thread. I gave a bit of my take on that in post #845.

Using the 15th overall pick:
In post #878, I wrote
>>>
My guess is that the team already knows EXACTLY who they want at 15 and that it's a guy they expect to be there. I'd bet that even if some bigger name drops considerably, they'll still take the kid they've been targeting there the whole time.
<<<

So I'm thinking much like you are in the sentence I bolded above.

My fanboy thoughts are that there are gonna be some real good fellas hanging around 20-30, some of whom I sure as heck wouldn't mind adding to the system. As such, in light of currently having no 2nd rounder in what is looking like a nice deep 60-75 player deep draft, I'll have no fan regrets if Bettman gets to the podium when we're up to pick and anounces a trade seeing us drop down in the first and maybe picking up another 2nd rounder in the process.

TW 05-28-2013 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt (Post 66704931)
My fanboy thoughts are that there are gonna be some real good fellas hanging around 20-30, some of whom I sure as heck wouldn't mind adding to the system. As such, in light of currently having no 2nd rounder in what is looking like a nice deep 60-75 player deep draft, I'll have no fan regrets if Bettman gets to the podium when we're up to pick and anounces a trade seeing us drop down in the first and maybe picking up another 2nd rounder in the process.

I would be mildly unhappy with that. The prospect pool is super deep. I'd rather get the most talented kid in his range, preferably a forward. I think it's going to get crowded on the blueline in a few years.

petrocelli 05-28-2013 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islandermaniac (Post 66703353)
@scott99:

so why not draft a kid like gauthier instead of mantha?

I have no problem with that.. I would be extactic with Gauthier if we end up with a forward. He is by far my clear-cut #1 choice of a forward... I don't know why you would have to give a sales pitch to anyone in explaining Gauthier over Mantha.. Sure Mantha scored more goals, but Gauthier wasn't a slouch in the points department, as Gauthier was just shy of a PPG, and along with that, Gauthier was called the best defensive forward to come out of the Q in the past 20 years... He is described as having the best two-way game from any forward in the draft... I'll take Gauthier and his commitment to playing a two-way game 8 days a week over Mantha.... Oh, everyone is so excited because Mantha is 6'4................................ well, Gauthier is 6'5.........

Defense, I am a little more open-minded. Zadorov, Nurse and Ristolainen will all most-likely be gone, but if one of them happens to drop to us at #15, you bet I'd be all over any of them....

More realistically, I'd love Pulock or my sleeper pick, Mirco Mueller.

StrongIslanders90 05-28-2013 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWJunior (Post 66703459)
@duster

Horvat has moved up to #10 on the latest ISS rankings. Seems like he probably won't be available at #15. He's moving up fast.

Could be because of his Playoffs....

The kid does seem like a hard working player with skill...Im fine with all these guys moving up....Just may give us better players to choose from who nove down...

islandermaniac 05-28-2013 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrocelli (Post 66707415)
I have no problem with that.. I would be extactic with Gauthier if we end up with a forward. He is by far my clear-cut #1 choice of a forward... I don't know why you would have to give a sales pitch to anyone in explaining Gauthier over Mantha.. Sure Mantha scored more goals, but Gauthier wasn't a slouch in the points department, as Gauthier was just shy of a PPG, and along with that, Gauthier was called the best defensive forward to come out of the Q in the past 20 years... He is described as having the best two-way game from any forward in the draft... I'll take Gauthier and his commitment to playing a two-way game 8 days a week over Mantha.... Oh, everyone is so excited because Mantha is 6'4................................ well, Gauthier is 6'5.........

Defense, I am a little more open-minded. Zadorov, Nurse and Ristolainen will all most-likely be gone, but if one of them happens to drop to us at #15, you bet I'd be all over any of them....

More realistically, I'd love Pulock or my sleeper pick, Mirco Mueller.

and one could argue gauthier's goal totals from this season should actually be compared to mantha's from LAST year given that the latter is actually the oldest player in this year's draft class. here are their rookie seasons:

mantha from 2011-2012:

63 gp, 22 g, 29 a, 51 pts, -11, 39 pims

gauthier from 2012-2013:

62 gp, 22 g, 38 a, 60 pts, +22, 26 pims

Chapin Landvogt 05-28-2013 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Degenetation Rex
Santini would not be a flashy pick, or even not a popular pick here, but he is good, there may be some more offense to his game. Seems like he"s always used in the shut down role so unless you see him play a lot it's hard to gauge if there is the makings of some more offense. Even used in a shut down role there are signs to look for.

The draft combine is currently taking place in Toronto this week.

Interestingly, my take at the U18 is that I was more enticed/enthralled by US Dmen Thompson and Vannelli.

Santini just seems to maybe be the most 'physically' mature at this point.

Getting honors:
As far as his being named top Dman for the US in the tournament, one should not forget that it is often the coaching staff - maybe even just one of the assistant coaches - who is asked to pick the team's top three players in the tournament.

Actually, this is how the best player of the game is picked in all of these IIHF events as well.

There's no group of journalists or jurys consisting of astute hockey minds picking these honors.

In fact, having been on the inside of these things, the teams generally like to spread the wealth in the course of the tourney, because when guys get named a game's top player or one of the all-stars of the tournament, etc. they usually get some type of prize from one of the sponsors. In recent years, it's often been a pricey watch from Tissot.

Just throwing that out there...

Chapin Landvogt 05-28-2013 06:43 PM

For what it's worth, here's a recent take on Mantha from Kyle Woodlief in his RedLine report piece for USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...ort/2125625/):
>>>
FALLING

Anthony Mantha: Will never be accused of playing with too much intensity… or heart… or effort for that matter.

-A couple of observations from the early stages of the Quebec League playoffs. First off, let us begin by saying that Val-d'Or winger Anthony Mantha is a first-round talent - no question. However, if we were drafting, say… 24th overall and Mantha was the highest rated player left on our board when it came time to make the pick? Well, let's just say we would somehow manage to find someone else we liked just a little bit better.

Honestly, does this guy even have a pulse? He plays with absolutely zero fire or passion and, as we like to say: If he ain't scorin', he ain't helpin'.

At a little more than 6-3, 200 pounds with great hands, you would think teams would be lining up to take him in the top 10. And we honestly do believe that he could become a 30-goal scorer at the NHL level. But it would be the softest 30 goals in the history of goaldom. And somebody in your organization along the way would have to teach him how to at least spell the word "compete," because it's absolutely certain at this stage that he has no clue about the meaning of that word.
<<<

Make of it what you will...

Marlo Stanfield 05-28-2013 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWJunior (Post 66703459)
@duster

Horvat has moved up to #10 on the latest ISS rankings. Seems like he probably won't be available at #15. He's moving up fast.

In addition to Horvat moving out of our range, I have a hunch that Lazar may go a pick or two before we're supposed to pick

Chapin Landvogt 05-28-2013 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWJunior
The Isles do look a lot better up front than they do on defense. I don't mind taking another d-man this year as I think it's better to draft/develop your own rather than paying the outrageous prices via trade or free agency. The only problem is that it takes patience to develop your own blue line and defensemen are harder to project. It doesn't hurt to hedge your bets. Besides, Reinhart really is the only true blue chipper and it wouldn't hurt to add another one.

I think if the team likes a Dman more than anyone else at 15, and decides to keep that pick, then the fact that they took 7 last summer will indeed mean diddly.

However, I do think that a number of people around the hockey world would look at our system and say that the picking of 7 Dmen last summer was unorthodox, to put it kindly.

Now, also taking last summer's draft into consideration, the big question is as to what role that missing 2nd rounder plays in deciding who to take in round one? I believe there are going to be a lot of nice Dmen available in round 2.

Chapin Landvogt 05-28-2013 07:05 PM

I know very little about Lazar, who I think some folks here have seen a good bit of.

Should there be any reason for concern that he only went 9-2-11 in 22 playoff games? Also, of his 38 goals, it seems that more than 20 of them came in the 2013 portion of the season. Just a hot streak?

Chapin Landvogt 05-28-2013 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TW (Post 66706871)
I would be mildly unhappy with that. The prospect pool is super deep. I'd rather get the most talented kid in his range, preferably a forward. I think it's going to get crowded on the blueline in a few years.

The thing is, who is that kid?

This draft seems to have a lot of good candidates of similar quality, but different strengths, between spots 10-25.

It'll be real interesting to see how the Isles choose.

As mentioned in a previous post, I'd have a hard time seeing the Isles drop back in the draft if one of Shinkaruk, Wennberg or Zadorov is available at 15.

If they're gone, I wouldn't mind seeing the regaining that 2nd become a bit of a priority.

scott99 05-28-2013 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt (Post 66708907)
Interestingly, my take at the U18 is that I was more enticed/enthralled by US Dmen Thompson and Vannelli.

Santini just seems to maybe be the most 'physically' mature at this point.

Getting honors:
As far as his being named top Dman for the US in the tournament, one should not forget that it is often the coaching staff - maybe even just one of the assistant coaches - who is asked to pick the team's top three players in the tournament.

Actually, this is how the best player of the game is picked in all of these IIHF events as well.

There's no group of journalists or jurys consisting of astute hockey minds picking these honors.

In fact, having been on the inside of these things, the teams generally like to spread the wealth in the course of the tourney, because when guys get named a game's top player or one of the all-stars of the tournament, etc. they usually get some type of prize from one of the sponsors. In recent years, it's often been a pricey watch from Tissot.

Just throwing that out there...

You might be confused. Santini was named the best defenseman of the Tournament, not just for team USA, but best defenseman out of all of the defensemen at the tournament, all countries included.

leeroggy 05-28-2013 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt (Post 66709159)
For what it's worth, here's a recent take on Mantha from Kyle Woodlief in his RedLine report piece for USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...ort/2125625/):
>>>
FALLING

Anthony Mantha: Will never be accused of playing with too much intensity… or heart… or effort for that matter.

-A couple of observations from the early stages of the Quebec League playoffs. First off, let us begin by saying that Val-d'Or winger Anthony Mantha is a first-round talent - no question. However, if we were drafting, say… 24th overall and Mantha was the highest rated player left on our board when it came time to make the pick? Well, let's just say we would somehow manage to find someone else we liked just a little bit better.

Honestly, does this guy even have a pulse? He plays with absolutely zero fire or passion and, as we like to say: If he ain't scorin', he ain't helpin'.

At a little more than 6-3, 200 pounds with great hands, you would think teams would be lining up to take him in the top 10. And we honestly do believe that he could become a 30-goal scorer at the NHL level. But it would be the softest 30 goals in the history of goaldom. And somebody in your organization along the way would have to teach him how to at least spell the word "compete," because it's absolutely certain at this stage that he has no clue about the meaning of that word.
<<<

Make of it what you will...

Pretty much the same description made when Mike Bossy was being rated. Ask the Rangers if they could do it all over again and pass on either Ron Duguay or Lucien DeBlois . . . Bossy was called soft (and until 1979-80 that was true) and a defensive liability. And we picked FIFTEENTH that year too.

mack809f 05-28-2013 08:54 PM

Mantha
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroggy (Post 66711797)
Pretty much the same description made when Mike Bossy was being rated. Ask the Rangers if they could do it all over again and pass on either Ron Duguay or Lucien DeBlois . . . Bossy was called soft (and until 1979-80 that was true) and a defensive liability. And we picked FIFTEENTH that year too.

I see the Bossy comparison as valid. This kid might be worth a shot.

boredmale 05-28-2013 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mack809f (Post 66713987)
I see the Bossy comparison as valid. This kid might be worth a shot.

Or he could be the next Pavel Brendl

IslandersFan17 05-28-2013 11:05 PM

Calling him soft is a pretty big statement. I was in Mantha's corner and I think that is a jab to his rep that could make or break his stock.

desmond 05-28-2013 11:50 PM

Mantha hasn't been nearly as productive as Bossy.

Renbarg 05-29-2013 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroggy (Post 66711797)
Pretty much the same description made when Mike Bossy was being rated. Ask the Rangers if they could do it all over again and pass on either Ron Duguay or Lucien DeBlois . . . Bossy was called soft (and until 1979-80 that was true) and a defensive liability. And we picked FIFTEENTH that year too.

and Oleg Kvasha, and Brad Isbister, and a whole stable of guys who were in actuality too soft for their immense talents.


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