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-   -   Olympics: 2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part VI) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1438744)

Coach Parker 04-22-2013 12:07 PM

Brad Marchand: 4th Line LW for Team Canada?
 
I will admit that I am biased for Marchand but looking at his stats since coming into the NHL, would you be surprised to see him on the 4th line for Team Canada at the Olympics?

He is currently tied for 14th in goals in the NHL but his points (tops on the Bruins) isn't what makes this worth a discussion.

- He has won a Gold medal and Stanley Cup in his young career.
- He is one of the best penalty-killers in the NHL.
- Chemistry with Patrice Bergeron is clear.
- Big game player throughout his career.
- One of the best agitator/scorers in the NHL.

My 4th line consisted of:

Marchand - Bergeron - XXX

...and they would see limited ice but be the first PK unit and defensive zone faceoffs. I personally love a fourth line in the Olympics that plays a physical/agitator role against the Americans, Swedes and Russians.

Do you think he has a chance? Is there someone else who you would rather take that 4th line role/penalty kill position that has a game (goal scorer) that still translates on a limited role for a team? Who would you put on that RW?

Finlandia WOAT 04-22-2013 12:10 PM

Marchand is currently having the fluke year to end all fluke years. Every "fluke year" after this until the end of time will instead be called "pulling a Marchand".

I believe the below video is an accurate representation of the relationship between Marchand and his current season:


Coach Parker 04-22-2013 12:11 PM

Claude Giroux, Matt Duschene and Nazem Kadri all came to mind on that line as effective two-way players that play a physical game and agitate opponents with their play.

NyQuil 04-22-2013 12:11 PM

I don't think so.

The last thing you'd want is him blowing a gasket in a single-game knockout tournament.

wej20 04-22-2013 12:12 PM

He took a stupid penalty in the Bruins-Pens game, I'd prefer someone more disciplined.

Robert Theodorson 04-22-2013 12:13 PM

Since Canada's 4th line is usually better than every other country's 1st line I'm gonna say there's 0% chance this happens.

Goon42 04-22-2013 12:13 PM

Agitators don't really have a place in the olympics, so no.

Neely2005 04-22-2013 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell (Post 64446615)
Marchand is currently having the fluke year to end all fluke years. Every "fluke year" after this until the end of time will instead be called "pulling a Marchand".

I believe the below video is an accurate representation of the relationship between Marchand and his current season:


I guess it was a "fluke" in the 2011 Playoffs too?


Godzilla 04-22-2013 12:13 PM

No thanks. Too much of a hot head, and if an important game comes down to the wire we don't need him pulling a bonehead move and losing the game for us.

TSC* 04-22-2013 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell (Post 64446615)
Marchand is currently having the fluke year to end all fluke years. Every "fluke year" after this until the end of time will instead be called "pulling a Marchand".

I believe the below video is an accurate representation of the relationship between Marchand and his current season:


You are aware Marchand scored 28 goals last year in 76 games..right? In only his second year in the NHL?

So in his first 3 years in the NHL he has had:

10/11 - .27 Goals a Game
11/12 - .36 Goals a Game
12/13 - .43 Goals a Game

Looks like a pretty normal curve for a player learning the NHL and developing offensively.

In summation, your post was all kinds of wrong.

Coach Parker 04-22-2013 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell (Post 64446615)
Marchand is currently having the fluke year to end all fluke years. Every "fluke year" after this until the end of time will instead be called "pulling a Marchand".

I believe the below video is an accurate representation of the relationship between Marchand and his current season:


Wait a second. So this year is the fluke year with 18 goals, or was it last year with 28 goals? How about the rookie year of 21 goals? Which 'one' fluke year are you referring to? I'm trying to differentiate between the 20+ goal seasons cause he's only been in the NHL for three years and has 20+ in each. Which season of the three is the fluke again?

Maybe it was his fluke playoff run with the 11 goals and 19 points?

BillyShoe1721 04-22-2013 12:16 PM

It's possible, but I don't think so. I think Canada will go with the approach of taking a bunch of centers and throwing them at wing instead of picking natural wingers that are definitely inferior players. Guys in the bottom 6 will probably include Bergeron, Toews, Perry, maybe Getzlaf or Mike Richards. The top 6 will have Crosby, Giroux, Tavares, Stamkos, St. Louis, and Hall/Staal. Then there are guys like Thornton, Nash, or Duchene that can fit in either because of physicality or two-way play. I just don't see him fitting.

BruinsBtn 04-22-2013 12:16 PM

Marchand is crazy skilled and aside from faceoffs, I'd see he's an even better penalty killer than Bergeron.

He isn't having a fluke season at all, he's generated more scoring chances than any other Bruin.

On Saturday he undressed the supposed best defenseman in the NHL.

Still, it's a tough team to make.

Coach Parker 04-22-2013 12:18 PM

Fair responses and I thought that would be the case.

I was wondering what approach they would be taking with the 4th line; elite players who fit a 4th line roll or the best forwards from Canada 10-12. It is an interesting conversation because those players need to make an impact with limited minutes.

86Habs 04-22-2013 12:31 PM

It wouldn't be completely bat**** crazy, but I do think its highly unlikely. The "agitator" part of his game wouldn't translate well (if at all) to the Olympics, especially since its being played on the larger international ice surface. And, of course, IIHF refereeing. Once that element of his game is removed, his overall effectiveness would be reduced in my view. Mike Richards, while he's not producing as much as he used to (or as much as Marchand, for that matter) would be my choice for a physical, bottom-line PKer who could shoulder some of the defensive load while at the same time being able to create some offense from that role. Richards was phenomenal in 2010. I also have Patrick Sharp on my team - love the guy's versatility. And after that, if we're looking solely at someone as a 13th or 14th forward who can kill penalties and contribute a bit offensively, I'd also personally have Andrew Ladd and Patrick Marleau ahead of Marchand, though neither makes my team.

86Habs 04-22-2013 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Parker (Post 64447011)
Fair responses and I thought that would be the case.

I was wondering what approach they would be taking with the 4th line; elite players who fit a 4th line roll or the best forwards from Canada 10-12. It is an interesting conversation because those players need to make an impact with limited minutes.

You'll find that most posters here prefer the bolded. With the amount of talent, experience and versatility we have, there's little excuse for Hockey Canada to bring defensive "specialists" like we used to with Zamuner, Doan, and Draper. We'll likely look to guys like Bergeron and Toews to kill penalties and anchor defensive-oriented (i.e., "shutdown") lines, but those two in particular are indisputably amongst Canada's top 10 or so forwards anyway. Nash played a shutdown role in 2010, and I see no reason why he wouldn't or couldn't do the same in 2014 if necessary. Then we get into guys like Sharp, Richards, Ladd - probably not amongst our top 12 or so forwards, but roughly top 20, and its not like you can't envision any of those guys slot in on a scoring line if someone gets hurt or if the initial cut at the lineup doesn't work out.

Simply put, Canada best bottom line players (maybe a guy like Jordan Staal) wouldn't be able to play any role other than a defensive, PKing role, and we have guys just as good in those roles, and would also be able to contribute offensively. And make no mistake - we'll need to roll 4 lines at the Olympics - the pace of the game is much faster than the NHL, the ice surface is larger, and we'll only be able to shorten the bench in critical game situations. IIRC all four lines in Vancouver got roughly equal ES minutes. Having four balanced lines also creates matchup problems for the other team, obviously. If we can ice a really good, balanced shutdown line (Toews-Bergeron-Nash, for arguments sake), the opposition's best lines will have to think defensively, too, and then we get into a matchup / depth game where we'll always have the advantage.

True Hockey Fan 04-22-2013 01:10 PM

He has a chance. I'm not like totally against him, but I would prefer different options.

These players I have on a list (who can play at PK / good defensive game)

(in no order)

Bergeron, Marchand, J.Staal, Toews, Sharp, Benn, Hall, Carter, M.Richards, Nash, Kunitz, Iginla, E.Kane, Ladd (+ Crosby)

86Habs 04-22-2013 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Hockey Fan (Post 64449547)
He has a chance. I'm not like totally against him, but I would prefer different options.

These players I have on a list (who can play at PK / good defensive game)

(in no order)

Bergeron, Marchand, J.Staal, Toews, Sharp, Benn, Hall, Carter, M.Richards, Nash, Kunitz, Iginla, E.Kane, Ladd (+ Crosby)

I'm not sure how much more (if any) mileage Team Canada can get out of Iggy at this point. I just can't see him being anywhere near making the 2014 team, and even if he did, heaven forbid it be in a defensive role....

True Hockey Fan 04-22-2013 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86Habs (Post 64450591)
I'm not sure how much more (if any) mileage Team Canada can get out of Iggy at this point. I just can't see him being anywhere near making the 2014 team, and even if he did, heaven forbid it be in a defensive role....

I'm not saying that I would choose him. But I know that Hockey Canada could possible choose him for his experience and leadership.

JuicyJ* 04-22-2013 01:39 PM

It's cool how you can tell who actually watches, and who just goes with the crowd. Marchand certainly isn't a "hot head" and it's very, very rare that he puts Boston short handed for a "stupid reason".

OttawaRoughRiderFan 04-22-2013 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyQuil (Post 64446673)
I don't think so.

The last thing you'd want is him blowing a gasket in a single-game knockout tournament.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wej20 (Post 64446741)
He took a stupid penalty in the Bruins-Pens game, I'd prefer someone more disciplined.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goon42 (Post 64446783)
Agitators don't really have a place in the olympics, so no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzilla (Post 64446787)
No thanks. Too much of a hot head, and if an important game comes down to the wire we don't need him pulling a bonehead move and losing the game for us.

All of the above. He is good and might be very good on the big ice but all we need is one stupid move/call. If we were lacking forwards, he would be fine, but up front we have players to spare.

No. No. No.

Godzilla 04-22-2013 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuicyJ (Post 64451011)
It's cool how you can tell who actually watches, and who just goes with the crowd. Marchand certainly isn't a "hot head" and it's very, very rare that he puts Boston short handed for a "stupid reason".

I do actually watch, and you don't have to look further than the Pittsburgh game to witness a hot head tendency. It was not the first time he has put his team in that predicament, and it wont be the last.

I don't frown on that type of player as I believe every team needs one, but just not in the setting of the Olympics.

OttawaRoughRiderFan 04-22-2013 02:18 PM

Not unless he can play goal. :)

Coach Parker 04-22-2013 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86Habs (Post 64447601)
It wouldn't be completely bat**** crazy, but I do think its highly unlikely. The "agitator" part of his game wouldn't translate well (if at all) to the Olympics, especially since its being played on the larger international ice surface. And, of course, IIHF refereeing. Once that element of his game is removed, his overall effectiveness would be reduced in my view. Mike Richards, while he's not producing as much as he used to (or as much as Marchand, for that matter) would be my choice for a physical, bottom-line PKer who could shoulder some of the defensive load while at the same time being able to create some offense from that role. Richards was phenomenal in 2010. I also have Patrick Sharp on my team - love the guy's versatility. And after that, if we're looking solely at someone as a 13th or 14th forward who can kill penalties and contribute a bit offensively, I'd also personally have Andrew Ladd and Patrick Marleau ahead of Marchand, though neither makes my team.

I like your idea of Richards making the team again and on the 4th line with Bergeron. I don't have Ladd or Marleau ahead of Marchand but like you said, it is really hard to envision any of them on the ice for Canada in 2014.

Dellstrom 04-22-2013 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Parker (Post 64455815)
I like your idea of Richards making the team again and on the 4th line with Bergeron. I don't have Ladd or Marleau ahead of Marchand but like you said, it is really hard to envision any of them on the ice for Canada in 2014.

Richards-Toews-Bergeron would be an absolutely insane line.


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