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-   -   Are we there yet? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1442725)

BRAD HABSFAN 06-06-2013 06:32 PM

Are we there yet?
 
Watching the 'final 4' I see all have stars and even a few superstars. I watch the intensity and how it seems almost every player takes it to another level. Do you feel the major components of our team could lift their game up to this level?

I wonder if Price can step up his game to go the distance to the cup? Will the core of our d.men keep the pace up that is needed when the intensity is soo high? Will our core offensive guys have that tenacity to go to the real ugly areas of the ice to win those puck battles?

I really wonder if we have that yet or even if we are just 1 or 2 players away. Maybe it is the fact that we have not had the chance to see us in a hard fought series yet that makes me doubt [other then boston couple years ago].

Could we play 4 series like the way we play Boston game in and game out? What do you think?

Ezpz 06-06-2013 06:49 PM

Our defense needs a little revamping. Ideally Markov would undergo magic make me 5 years younger and heal my body surgery, Emelin's face would heal and not need a plate and Gorges would be moved for someone who can better handle top pairing minutes with Subban.

Better than Gorges-Super Subban
Magical Markov-Eagle Eye Emelin
Tinordi-Diaz

Would be a start.

sharks9 06-06-2013 06:53 PM

2 years and a few players away I'd say.

PyrettaBlaze 06-06-2013 06:54 PM

Not even close.

Des Louise 06-06-2013 07:06 PM

The only guy we currently have who is already a star player and who has shown he is capable of raising his game to another level in the playoffs is Subban.

Pacioretty, Gallagher, Galchenyuk and Eller have the potential to be key players in the playoffs going forward.

Plekanec and Markov will be supporting players going forward. They shouldn't be expected to carry the team and be cornerstones.

Gorges will get mentionned here but if we rely on him to have a key role on the team it won't be pretty.

I am not mentioning Price because goalies are always key in the playoffs whether it's negatively or positively and Price could go one way or another so..

EDIT:

In short, if Galchenyuk, Eller, Pacioretty and Gallagher become the players they are supposed to and find ways to produce in the playoffs, then we'll be sitting pretty up front. It will only be a matter of surrounding these guys with some other decent players, appropriate UFA rentals, etc.

On D, we really need a McDo type. Or maybe a guy who is a bit more rough like Orpik. Tinordi will eventually fill a big hole if he develops more of a mean streak.

schumway2 06-06-2013 07:18 PM

Personally, I don't think we can become a Penguins or Blackhawks because those are teams who got back to back high picks, and got superstars both times. It's very hard to replicate that. The path that the Bruins or Kings took is somewhat easier to duplicate. It takes time though. Hypothetically, we're still a good 3 or 4 years from being there. And that's if we do it right and hit on draft picks. It's an uphill climb for sure.

If we follow McGuire's 7 player profile:

2 Elite centermen: Galchenyuk (potentially), [empty]
1 power forward: Pacioretty (potenially)
1 versatile role player: Gallagher, Eller, Plekanec
1 great offensive defenceman: Subban
1 great stabilizing defenceman: [empty]
1 elite goaltender: Price (needs to play like one more often)

So we need: Galchenyuk to develop into that great #1 or #2 centerman, Pacioretty to develop into that drive the net PF, acquire another elite top 6 center, find a big physical presence on the backend and build around that.

Agnostic 06-06-2013 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRAD HABSFAN (Post 67122095)
Watching the 'final 4' I see all have stars and even a few superstars. I watch the intensity and how it seems almost every player takes it to another level. Do you feel the major components of our team could lift their game up to this level?

I wonder if Price can step up his game to go the distance to the cup? Will the core of our d.men keep the pace up that is needed when the intensity is soo high? Will our core offensive guys have that tenacity to go to the real ugly areas of the ice to win those puck battles?

I really wonder if we have that yet or even if we are just 1 or 2 players away. Maybe it is the fact that we have not had the chance to see us in a hard fought series yet that makes me doubt [other then boston couple years ago].

Could we play 4 series like the way we play Boston game in and game out? What do you think?

Boston is destroying Pittsburgh who destroyed Ottawa who destroyed the Habs. What's a fan to think?

It's all a lot to take in, but by this year's performance in the playoffs the Habs have a way to go. The topic is a more honest discussion than had the Habs lost in game 7 to the team that eventually wins the cup. Like 2011.

Boston proves that strength and depth gets more important as the other teams play tough games and eventually wilt by comparison. They are third round strong and the habs were first round weak.

Richiebottles 06-06-2013 08:28 PM

Between 2 and 4 years out IMO but we can become solid contenders.

couris 06-06-2013 08:32 PM

Not even close. As long as you have DD plekachu and ginta in your top6 you will go nowhere. The defense isnt good enough(SOFFFF) and Price is being paid 6.5M for potential.

Ozymandias 06-06-2013 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agnostic (Post 67125059)
Boston is destroying Pittsburgh who destroyed Ottawa who destroyed the Habs. What's a fan to think?

It's all a lot to take in, but by this year's performance in the playoffs the Habs have a way to go. The topic is a more honest discussion than had the Habs lost in game 7 to the team that eventually wins the cup. Like 2011.

Boston proves that strength and depth gets more important as the other teams play tough games and eventually wilt by comparison. They are third round strong and the habs were first round weak.

Simplistic linear reductionism isn't much valid. It completely disregards match-ups and Habs had one of the youngest teams core-wize in those playoffs. It's not going to stabilize until a few years as we're getting a steady input of players from very recent drafts. Boston is the most consistent because of their depth AND coaching. Habs are getting near that depth, although it needs to acquire experience for that depth to be as effective. Therrien isn't the best coach we could have either, but for the purpose of gaining the needed experience for those young core players, he's probably a very good choice.

We're not there yet, but we aren't far either.

jake08 06-06-2013 08:36 PM

Not even close, and if you're not picking up the signs a la no interest in ryder, interest in colby armstrong, the constant were in no rush were building through the draft idea, you'd have the answer. I feel as though next year we will not have a year like this. However there is nothing wrong with this and we should just accept it. Let our young players develop properly and in a few years we'll have a great team that will be ready.

Habs_Apostle 06-06-2013 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jake08 (Post 67126373)
Not even close, and if you're not picking up the signs a la no interest in ryder, interest in colby armstrong, the constant were in no rush were building through the draft idea, you'd have the answer. I feel as though next year we will not have a year like this. However there is nothing wrong with this and we should just accept it. Let our young players develop properly and in a few years we'll have a great team that will be ready.

Yeah, there is a sense that this year was a bit of an aberration. And, hopefully, management is thinking the same. It's not a matter of one or two pieces but, I think, many pieces that need to mature and change. Slow and steady...

onemorecup* 06-06-2013 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze (Post 67122873)
Not even close.

bang on :handclap::handclap::handclap: and anyone who thinks we are is dreaming

our d stinks period

Cube, Markov, Dias, and Gorges are terrible in their own zone

Richiebottles 06-06-2013 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs_Apostle (Post 67126761)
Yeah, there is a sense that this year was a bit of an aberration. And, hopefully, management is thinking the same. It's not a matter of one or two pieces but, I think, many pieces that need to mature and change. Slow and steady...

Agreed, once Beaulieu,Tinordi,Collberg,Bozon and such develop along with the gained maturity of our core we will be ready.

Mrb1p 06-06-2013 08:57 PM

Like it or not, and I know a lot of you negative Nancy's do, our core has arrived. Now is the supporting cast up to the challenge? No.

We are set at C, we are set at 1D, we are set at 1G( like it or not...)

Now we need the ok' patches, another top 4 D, a better bottom 6, and another top 6 winger likely big and with lots of grit.

Were not that far off a team like LA.

onemorecup* 06-06-2013 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs_Apostle (Post 67126761)
Yeah, there is a sense that this year was a bit of an aberration. And, hopefully, management is thinking the same. It's not a matter of one or two pieces but, I think, many pieces that need to mature and change. Slow and steady...

agreed and start now by removing those that dont fit come playoff time or moving forward with the team

We said bye to Ryder , now Dias and Colby are next from our current playing roster and then make other moves as required

Dias is fine for the regular season but has no jam or D for the playoffs

agreed my friend its not a few pieces that are missing , its about having the players with the will and guts to compete and we simply dont have many of those

too many passengers not enough leaders that are built for the post season

it wont happen overnight but start now , we got good kids ready to take over , 6 picks to work with and a decent foundation to start with

JayKing 06-06-2013 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrb1p (Post 67127215)
Like it or not, and I know a lot of you negative Nancy's do, our core has arrived. Now is the supporting cast up to the challenge? No.

We are set at C, we are set at 1D, we are set at 1G( like it or not...)

Now we need the ok' patches, another top 4 D, a better bottom 6, and another top 6 winger likely big and with lots of grit.

Were not that far off a team like LA.

Our defence is nowhere close to LA's other than Subban and Doughty. Our offence can't really be compared because we don't play a physical game like them. Anyways Kopitar, Richards, Carter >>>> any habs forward (MaxPac is getting up there but hopefully Chucky, Gally, Collberg, and Eller can get close or better)
Quick > Price, but in form Carey is a team needs. No need for a god mode goalie with our offense.

hockeyfan2k11 06-06-2013 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze (Post 67122873)
Not even close.

This is how I feel. To be successful in the playoffs you need good defense, great goaltending and timely scoring. We don't have any of that. I think we're a good few players away. There are some good pieces, but the team is a bit of a mess.

hockeyfan2k11 06-06-2013 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jake08 (Post 67126373)
Not even close, and if you're not picking up the signs a la no interest in ryder, interest in colby armstrong, the constant were in no rush were building through the draft idea, you'd have the answer. I feel as though next year we will not have a year like this. However there is nothing wrong with this and we should just accept it. Let our young players develop properly and in a few years we'll have a great team that will be ready.

I would not be surprised if we didn't make the playoffs next year. This year was an abberation IMO. I dont think there's anything wrong with that either. I expected this team to be out of the playoffs for 2 years minimum. As long as Bergy has a legit plan and sticks to it, we should be good in a few years.

onemorecup* 06-06-2013 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrb1p (Post 67127215)
Like it or not, and I know a lot of you negative Nancy's do, our core has arrived. Now is the supporting cast up to the challenge? No.

We are set at C, we are set at 1D, we are set at 1G( like it or not...)

Now we need the ok' patches, another top 4 D, a better bottom 6, and another top 6 winger likely big and with lots of grit.

Were not that far off a team like LA.

agreed to a point my friend

PK is our Chara or Doughty

Galchenyuk can be our Kopitar or Krejci

Pleks is solid but will never never be bergeron or Mike Richards Eller might one day

Price maybe one day will be Quick and or Rask or Tim Thomas , not as as of yet

But our D stinks ....too small , and not enough jam to compete past Emelin and PK

our fourth line is among the worst in hockey Colby , Moen and White cant carry
the jock straps of Paille, Thornton and Campbell

Gio , DD, Max right now are not Carter , Brown , Horton , Lucic, Marchand

yes we may have the possible 1D, 1G, 1C but many other pieces are not there

Agnostic 06-06-2013 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrb1p (Post 67127215)
Like it or not, and I know a lot of you negative Nancy's do, our core has arrived. Now is the supporting cast up to the challenge? No.

We are set at C, we are set at 1D, we are set at 1G( like it or not...)

Now we need the ok' patches, another top 4 D, a better bottom 6, and another top 6 winger likely big and with lots of grit.

Were not that far off a team like LA.

Like it or not we are not set at nearly enough critical positions, especially C and G, the most important spots, and for most part the D.

onemorecup* 06-06-2013 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 (Post 67128443)
I would not be surprised if we didn't make the playoffs next year. This year was an abberation IMO. I dont think there's anything wrong with that either. I expected this team to be out of the playoffs for 2 years minimum. As long as Bergy has a legit plan and sticks to it, we should be good in a few years.

agreed my friend , now we have Detroit to contend with

Boston , Detroit and I think Ottawa are the most capable to get through so we need the wildcard

if the kids step it up and Price can stand on his head anything is possible

as long as MB doesnt bandaid and do stupid things like another DD contract and stays the course we should be ok in a few years

Mrb1p 06-06-2013 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmdubois585 (Post 67127929)
Our defence is nowhere close to LA's other than Subban and Doughty. Our offence can't really be compared because we don't play a physical game like them. Anyways Kopitar, Richards, Carter >>>> any habs forward (MaxPac is getting up there but hopefully Chucky, Gally, Collberg, and Eller can get close or better)
Quick > Price, but in form Carey is a team needs. No need for a god mode goalie with our offense.

read again ... :shakehead: Im talking about our core.
P.k, Price, Plek,Patches, Eller, Chucky, Bourque, gally, emelin is not far off Doughty, Kopitar, Brown,Quick, Richards, Carter, Penner, Voynov and Williams..

We need chuck to go to Kopitars level and a top 4 D that can rivalise with Voynov and I think wed be pretty comparable.
I don't think were to far off from the other top 4 either as we probably have the best 1# dman of all four and Price is better than Crawford and Fleury. Then the offense obviously needs to get better for Pitt

Talks to Goalposts 06-06-2013 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onemorecup (Post 67128599)
agreed to a point my friend

PK is our Chara or Doughty

Galchenyuk can be our Kopitar or Krejci

Pleks is solid but will never never be bergeron or Mike Richards Eller might one day

Price maybe one day will be Quick and or Rask or Tim Thomas , not as as of yet

But our D stinks ....too small , and not enough jam to compete past Emelin and PK

our fourth line is among the worst in hockey Colby , Moen and White cant carry
the jock straps of Paille, Thornton and Campbell

Gio , DD, Max right now are not Carter , Brown , Horton , Lucic, Marchand

yes we may have the possible 1D, 1G, 1C but many other pieces are not there

The 4th line the Habs had was actually one of the best in the league. Because they were all real hockey players they could play real hockey as a defensive line instead of just killing time.

The Bruins guys can't do that. Very few teams can play a 4th line as hockey players rather than just as time wasters.

Agnostic 06-06-2013 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrb1p (Post 67128801)
read again ... :shakehead: Im talking about our core.
P.k, Price, Plek,Patches, Eller, Chucky, Bourque, gally, emelin is not far off Doughty, Kopitar, Brown,Quick, Richards, Carter, Penner, Voynov and Williams..
We need chuck to go to Kopitars level and a top 4 D that can rivalise with Voynov and I think wed be pretty comparable.
I don't think were to far off from the other top 4 either as we probably have the best 1# dman of all four and Price is better than Crawford and Fleury. Then the offense obviously needs to get better for Pitt

You compared 9 players to 9 players and gave a slight advantage to LA, ignoring the fact that Price doesn't compare at all to Quick and that the roster is 23 players meaning that in addition to that LA advantage the larger part of the roster needs to be upgraded.

Bergevin has some serious work to do.


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