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-   -   Proposal: Would you trade Jake Gardiner for Sean Monahan/Elias Lindholm? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1445191)

Four1 Lead 06-10-2013 07:15 PM

Would you trade Jake Gardiner for Sean Monahan/Elias Lindholm?
 
It looks like Edmonton will move their #7 pick for a player that can help them soon(er).

The speculation is that they want a top 6 centre that can contribute on the ice even when not scoring points. That's not something we can offer them but Jake Gardiner is Justin Schultz' former teammate and best buddy. Jake also has a very good relationship with new Oilers coach Dallas Eakins.

We all know how talented Jake is and what kind of upside he has. He's probably the most promising young defenceman the Maple Leafs have had in at least a couple decades. That said, Burke picked Morgan Rielly in the 2012 draft and we've managed to add Matthew Finn, Stuary Percy and Tom Nilsson in the last two drafts. Jesse Blacker, Korbinian Holzer and Petter Granberg are still developing and could all play at the NHL level (in some capacity) when they're ready.

It's ultimately a choice between having a combo of Kadri/Gardiner/Rielly or Kadri/Monohan/Rielly.

If there was the option of swapping Jake Gardiner for the 7th overall pick, would you do it?

Diatomic 06-10-2013 07:17 PM

No. If the pick busts, and Gardiner becomes a star, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

Rude Dog 06-10-2013 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner (Post 67310219)
It looks like Edmonton will move their #7 pick for a player that can help them soon(er).

The speculation is that they want a top 6 centre that can contribute on the ice even when not scoring points. That's not something we can offer them but Jake Gardiner is Justin Schultz' former teammate and best buddy. Jake also has a very good relationship with new Oilers coach Dallas Eakins.

We all know how talented Jake is and what kind of upside he has. He's probably the most promising young defenceman the Maple Leafs have had in at least a couple decades. That said, Burke picked Morgan Rielly in the 2012 draft and we've managed to add Matthew Finn, Stuary Percy and Tom Nilsson in the last two drafts. Jesse Blacker, Korbinian Holzer and Petter Granberg are still developing and could all play at the NHL level (in some capacity) when they're ready.

It's ultimately a choice between having a combo of Kadri/Gardiner/Rielly or Kadri/Monohan/Rielly.

If there was the option of swapping Jake Gardiner for the 7th overall pick, would you do it?

Anyone not named MacKinnon or Barkov. Nope

416Leafer 06-10-2013 07:41 PM

For Lindholm? Yes.

For Monahan? Tough decision. Im not quite as sold on him.

The premise makes sense though. Trade from position of strength to acquire a top C prospect, specifically a defensively responsible one. I think in most drafts, these guys would be going top 3 or 4.

Anthrax442 06-10-2013 07:43 PM

Why trade a good young player for someone you hope will be a good young player.

Four1 Lead 06-10-2013 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthrax442 (Post 67311529)
Why trade a good young player for someone you hope will be a good young player.

That argument doesn't work since Gardiner showed big signs that he's still developing and not a sure-fire all star. There are questions on both sides. Monahan or Lindholm are #1 centre prospects. Lindholm is a phenominal talent.

LilySmoov 06-10-2013 07:48 PM

For Monahan, no.

For Lindholm, maybe.

If Barkov somehow drops to 7 (which I know wasn't in the thread title/OP), in a heartbeat.

darrylsittler27 06-10-2013 07:50 PM

Not after the impact he had in the playoffs.
 
I think Gardiner is about to break out in his 3rd year and warmed himself upto RC. Lindholm won't be there at 7 and Monahan is a gamble. Given where the team is now, we have more use for Gardiner than Monahan who may be years away.

Anthrax442 06-10-2013 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner (Post 67311727)
That argument doesn't work since Gardiner showed big signs that he's still developing and not a sure-fire all star. There are questions on both sides. Monahan or Lindholm are #1 centre prospects. Lindholm is a phenominal talent.

Exactly. He is going to get better. He can be traded for someone who is a sure thing, no problem.

iBlaze81 06-10-2013 07:52 PM

No, if Gards moves it's for a package deal involving top 3. Thats the only way i'd move him.

Diatomic 06-10-2013 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner (Post 67311727)
That argument doesn't work since Gardiner showed big signs that he's still developing and not a sure-fire all star. There are questions on both sides. Monahan or Lindholm are #1 centre prospects. Lindholm is a phenominal talent.

Gardiner 5 points in 6 games against the bruins tell me that he's something special. Not just the points but his skating and hockey IQ is top notch. I'm not a gambler so I'll personally pass on the Gardiner for a pick trade

LeafsFIO 06-10-2013 07:54 PM

No.

Monahan will not be NHL-ready for another two years as he needs to do A LOT of work on his skating, this much he's even admitted.

He's not the type of player, I think, that would be a fit with a Kessel moving forward.

Monahan's all about puck possession, winning little puck battles and dominating in the other team's end.

Carlyle plays an almost anti-possession system, and although Monny's great on defence as well, he wouldn't thrive with Toronto should Carlyle still be the bench boss when he hits the NHL.

I'd love to have Monahan don't get me wrong, I've had the privilege to watch him for three seasons now, and he's going to be a real steal in this draft if he drops out of the top-five, but I wouldn't trade a guy with a unique skill set like Gardiner for him.

If it were a trade-up type of deal, I'd go for it if it made sense.

Duffman955 06-10-2013 07:56 PM

Only way I would trade gardiner is if an equally potential player comes back who has proven he can play in the NHL.

hockeygeek 06-10-2013 08:02 PM

This is a bad idea. If your gonna trade Gardsy then trade him for a guy who's ready to step in and help and keep your pick at 21 or trade it for more depth. The rebuild is over and if we start trading for draft picks we'll be out of the playoffs in a hurry

Mess 06-10-2013 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeafsFIO (Post 67312099)
Monahan's all about puck possession, winning little puck battles and dominating in the other team's end.

Carlyle plays an almost anti-possession system, and although Monny's great on defence as well, he wouldn't thrive with Toronto should Carlyle still be the bench boss when he hits the NHL.

Carlyle would love big strong power forwards like he had in Perry and Getzlaf and maintain puck possession and a sustained cycle in the offensive zone.

Problem is the player personnel that he is presently provided that forces his hand to adapt.

Monahan would be step in the right direction, as opposed to the wrong one, when it comes to being strong on the puck, forecheck and cycle.

My Sweet Shadow 06-10-2013 08:20 PM

Yes, we're in need of a center, by why use one of our best bargaining chips on a wild gamble like that. Statistically speaking, that 7th round pick has a 74% chance of making the NHL and would likely turn out to be no more than an depth player (http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/scott_cullen/?id=267960). Gardiner's already put up 34 points in 87 NHL games, been named to the All-Rookie Team, and demonstrated that he can play at an elite level in the NHL...if he can improve his consistency and round out his game a little, he's going to be a key piece going forward for the Leafs.

I say keep Gardiner unless we're using him in a package to get a proven #1 center (or someone like MacKinnon/Barkov).

Interactif 06-10-2013 08:21 PM

I wondered when my post of the Eakins/Gardiner angle would finally spawn threads. Took a few days but good to see Mike Augullo and this thread are tuning into Interactif. :laugh:

Stephen 06-10-2013 08:26 PM

Would you trade Jake Gardiner for Radek Faksa, Mikhail Grigorenko or Zemgus Girgensons? Take away that pre-draft sizzle and you're basically moving a very promising NHL player for a lot of question marks, not to mention delaying your team's schedule by having to wait for someone significantly younger than the core.

The Leafs have

Kessel
JVR
Gardiner
Reimer
Kulemin
Kadri
Frattin
Franson
Colborne
Gunnarsson

all drafted between 2005 and 2009. It seems pretty clear this is roughly the age bracket they're trying to coordinate their team around. Shifting arguably a top three asset from this age group for a huge question mark at center is just nuts.

Kenadyan 06-10-2013 08:27 PM

What is it with all these threads about the Leafs trading all of their best players.

A little bit of playoff success and now everybody wants to trade off Gardiner and Kessel.

Do some of you want to wait another 9 years to make the playoffs??!!!

Smh. :shakehead

Duke Silver 06-10-2013 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 67313783)
Would you trade Jake Gardiner for Radek Faksa, Mikhail Grigorenko or Zemgus Girgensons? Take away that pre-draft sizzle and you're basically moving a very promising NHL player for a lot of question marks, not to mention delaying your team's schedule by having to wait for someone significantly younger than the core.

The Leafs have

Kessel
JVR
Gardiner
Reimer
Kulemin
Kadri
Frattin
Franson
Colborne
Gunnarsson

all drafted between 2005 and 2009. It seems pretty clear this is roughly the age bracket they're trying to coordinate their team around. Shifting arguably a top three asset from this age group for a huge question mark at center is just nuts.

Agreed. If Gardiner was to be moved, it would likely be for help now, not help later.

It would have to be a huge package, though. Gardiner is a stud.

Peace Frog 06-10-2013 08:31 PM

What about a Gardiner for Couturier type of deal? Jake has shown signs of possibly being something special ( I love this kid), and Sean seems to be showing he has potential to be an impact center. IMO, I think there is something that could be worked out here.

Interactif 06-10-2013 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 67313783)
Would you trade Jake Gardiner for Radek Faksa, Mikhail Grigorenko or Zemgus Girgensons? Take away that pre-draft sizzle and you're basically moving a very promising NHL player for a lot of question marks, not to mention delaying your team's schedule by having to wait for someone significantly younger than the core.

The Leafs have

Kessel
JVR
Gardiner
Reimer
Kulemin
Kadri
Frattin
Franson
Colborne
Gunnarsson

all drafted between 2005 and 2009. It seems pretty clear this is roughly the age bracket they're trying to coordinate their team around. Shifting arguably a top three asset from this age group for a huge question mark at center is just nuts.

We would be moving a player(Gardiner)with possibly less question marks for a player with question marks only because he hasn't played a NHL game. If scouts deem the risks are reasonable as in the JVR - Schenn trade, both players had risks attached to them when the trade was done, then Nonis and co. may just move on a deal if that player is available, most likely Monahan or Horvat.

Stephen 06-10-2013 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peace Frog (Post 67314049)
What about a Gardiner for Couturier type of deal? Jake has shown signs of possibly being something special ( I love this kid), and Sean seems to be showing he has potential to be an impact center. IMO, I think there is something that could be worked out here.

I'd be inclined to let Jake Gardiner play for us and just be a great defensemen.

I don't want to trade him at all, but hypothetically assuming the plan is to unload him at any cost to get a forward, I'd still let him play here, have his stock rise and then be in the position of moving him for a Logan Couture level player/age in a battleship for battleship deal instead of getting a Sean Couturier, who looks risky and not a top end offensive threat.

But that's a hypothetical. I don't want to trade Gardiner at all.

Duke Silver 06-10-2013 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peace Frog (Post 67314049)
What about a Gardiner for Couturier type of deal? Jake has shown signs of possibly being something special ( I love this kid), and Sean seems to be showing he has potential to be an impact center. IMO, I think there is something that could be worked out here.

I'm not convinced Couturier is going to be the impact #1 center we'd be looking for, based on my viewings of him on TV and in-person at IceCaps/Phantoms games.

People seem really high on him but I personally don't see it.

Stephen 06-10-2013 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interactif (Post 67314127)
We would be moving a player(Gardiner)with possibly less question marks for a player with question marks only because he hasn't played a NHL game. If scouts deem the risks are reasonable as in the JVR - Schenn trade, both players had risks attached to them when the trade was done, then Nonis and co. may just move on a deal if that player is available, most likely Monahan or Horvat.

Schenn for JVR made sense from the perspective that Schenn had nothing on JVR: he didn't have the skating, he didn't have the skills, he didn't even have a size advantage on JVR. He was just a former high pick with a weak package of skills that wasn't much of a gamble.

Gardiner has a ton of tools and is further along in development to boot than Monahan or Horvat. You have to realize that when you want to trade Gards for one of these picks, there's a huge draft day markup and hype you're buying into. Strictly from a prospect point of view, you probably think Horvat is a better investment than a Radek Faksa or something like that. Why? Because Faksa doesn't have his draft day sizzle anymore.


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