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-   -   How aggressive should we be with our cap and acquiring other teams "leftovers" (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1445857)

allan5oh 06-12-2013 01:01 AM

How aggressive should we be with our cap and acquiring other teams "leftovers"
 
There are lots of teams that are in cap hell. These teams would rather deal a player for even a late pick than have to buy them out. This saves them a lot of money. We need middle 6 wingers and a #4LHD. Here's a thread:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1445771

Some names that have come up:

Rich Peverley (47GP 18 pts 3.25M through 14/15)
David Booth (12 GP 3 pts 4.25M through 14/15)
Keith Ballard (36 GP 4.2M through 14/15)

All have had bad years for any number of reasons. David Jones is another player.

garret9 06-12-2013 01:34 AM

I'd have two sayings if I was a GM:

1) Aquire as many good players as possible
2) Always be open to trade if it is for more value when possible if it doesn't ruin your future

sully1410 06-12-2013 02:28 AM

Ballard would be nice. According to Garret's chart he's one of the fifty most effective DMen at shutting down the tough competition.

Sweech 06-12-2013 05:48 AM

I'd give Booth a chance (if Vancouver buys him out). Seems like a decent project.

Plus when I GM mode him in NHL 13 with the Jets he absolutely tears it up on the RW across from Kane.

Flair Hay 06-12-2013 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sully1410 (Post 67368035)
Ballard would be nice. According to Garret's chart he's one of the fifty most effective DMen at shutting down the tough competition.

Yeah once they found him a good fit in Tanev in the 2012 season he really seemed to perform closer to his expected level. Long term I'd definitely prefer more of a shut down type, but if Kulda bolts we'll need a warm body on the left side.

By all accounts I've heard Peverly was a good fit here before he was traded. His expectations on offense would be lower now, but if Burmi isn't around we're going to need a whole new 3rd line.

Guerzy 06-12-2013 08:22 AM

We should definitely be looking into what teams may want/need to "give away", if you will. A guy like Peverley would likely be great for this team given he brings experience, he's versatile in that he can be solid on the 3rd line and shift up to the 2nd if need be, can play center or wing. These are the types of players I'd like on our 3rd line, rounding out our top 9, not unproductive Santorelli's and Tangradi's of the world, borderline NHL'ers.

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Scheifele - Ryder
Raymond - Jokinen - Peverley
Wright - Slater - Peluso


Just for example, though likely too expensive. I am tired of players like Santorelli, Tangradi, Wellwood, Miettinen type of inconsistent depth, i'm talking/wanting legitimate, NHL depth players, which in my opinion would do wonders for this team. It won't fix all of our problems, we obviously need to replace Hainsey and hope Pavelec comes to form, but it would be a big step in the right direction as far as I am concerned.

That crop of forwards is beyond playoff worthy, imo. Likely unrealistic in cost, I understand that, but I suppose my main point here is Chevy needs to address the depth issues this team has and supply worthy, experienced NHL players who can play a solid two-way game and support and compliment our top 6. And yes, I am operating under the illusion that Burmistrov is traded, because I think he will be.

Boston is honestly a good example of how our team is likely to be built, no real stars but a group of guys who know their roles and go to work for eachother. That comparison was made last offseason and the year before around here, and it rings very true, imo.

Anyhow, these are the type of moves I would like to see Chevy get aggressive with, because I think it's what this group needs to help advance them to the next level.

viper0220 06-12-2013 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guerzy (Post 67371735)
We should definitely be looking into what teams may want/need to "give away", if you will. A guy like Peverley would likely be great for this team given he brings experience, he's versatile in that he can be solid on the 3rd line and shift up to the 2nd if need be, can play center or wing. These are the types of players I'd like on our 3rd line, rounding out our top 9, not unproductive Santorelli's and Tangradi's of the world, borderline NHL'ers.

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Scheifele - Ryder
Raymond - Jokinen - Peverley
Wright - Slater - Peluso


Just for example, though likely too expensive. I am tired of players like Santorelli, Tangradi, Wellwood type of inconsistent depth, i'm talking/wanting legitimate, NHL depth players, which in my opinion would do wonders for this team. It won't fix all of our problems, we obviously need to replace Hainsey and hope Pavelec comes to form, but it would be a big step in the right direction as far as I am concerned.

That crop of forwards is beyond playoff worthy, imo. Likely unrealistic in cost, I understand that, but I suppose my main point here is Chevy needs to address the depth issues this team has and supply worthy, experienced NHL players who can play a solid two-way game and support and compliment our top 6. And yes, I am operating under the illusion that Burmistrov is traded, because I think he will be.

Boston is honestly a good example of how our team is likely to be built, no real stars but a group of guys who know their roles and go to work for eachother. That comparison was made last offseason and the year before around here, and it rings very true, imo.

Anyhow, these are the type of moves I would like to see Chevy get aggressive with, because I think it's what this group needs to help advance them to the next level.



hopefully you are Guerzy, hope Chevy does something. I would not be against trading Buff and Burmi(if he wants to go) for a player like Jeff Skinner.

Also give the young ones(who deserve it) time with the big club.

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Scheifele - J. Skinner:D
Raymond ?(Young one)- Jokinen - Peverley
Wright - Slater - Peluso

broinwhyteridge 06-12-2013 08:43 AM

Peverly would be a solid addition IMO.

truck 06-12-2013 09:20 AM

If there is a bargain to be had, go for it!

That said, most of the buy out players are going to be bought out for a reason and that reason is - They aren't worth their salary. Picking up a few stop gaps won't hurt, but I don't see it as the kind of thing that will turn around the franchise.

I do like Peverly, but I like the idea of a early to mid 20 something way way more.

It will be interesting to see what happens here.




Aside:

Somebody in that linked thread had the Nucks taking Thorburn for Ballard in a trade.

Please please please!

Guerzy 06-12-2013 09:25 AM

I'll be surprised if Thoburn is back. He may make it to camp, but I don't think he is on the team next year. Wouldn't be surprised if he was a throw-in to a deal over the summer or simply dealt for essentially nothing. It became all too obvious Noel didn't see much use for him, and with Peluso in the mix, Chevy has found his own tough guy.

Great guy in the room, but in my opinion he's gotta go, as he just doesn't add much of anything on the ice that is going to help this team win hockey games. I'll be surprised if 3 players under contract/Jets property are with the team next season - Byfuglien, Burmistrov, Thorburn. This is the offseason as far as I am concerned that Chevy makes a bold move or two, and really changes the tide here. Going with the same group is simply doing the same thing over, in which we've essentially done the last 2 seasons. It doesn't work.

I am looking very forward to the potential of parting ways with Byfuglien, Burmistrov, Thorburn, Antropov, Miettinen, Hainsey, Wellwood, and possibly even borderline NHL'ers in Santorelli and Tangradi. If nothing more than to simply change the room and culture here. Wouldn't mind Hainsey back as I really admired his efforts this past season, I'll say that though. And, finding reliable top 4 defenseman can be tricky.

sully1410 06-12-2013 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guerzy (Post 67373627)
I'll be surprised if Thoburn is back. He may make it to camp, but I don't think he is on the team next year. Wouldn't be surprised if he was a throw-in to a deal over the summer or simply dealt for essentially nothing. It became all too obvious Noel didn't see much use for him, and with Peluso in the mix, Chevy has found his own tough guy.

Great guy in the room, but in my opinion he's gotta go, as he just doesn't add much of anything on the ice that is going to help this team win hockey games. I'll be surprised if 3 players under contract/Jets property are with the team next season - Byfuglien, Burmistrov, Thorburn. This is the offseason as far as I am concerned that Chevy makes a bold move or two, and really changes the tide here. Going with the same group is simply doing the same thing over, in which we've essentially done the last 2 seasons. It doesn't work.

I am looking very forward to the potential of parting ways with Byfuglien, Burmistrov, Thorburn, Antropov, Miettinen, Hainsey, Wellwood, and possibly even borderline NHL'ers in Santorelli and Tangradi. If nothing more than to simply change the room and culture here. Wouldn't mind Hainsey back as I really admired his efforts this past season, I'll say that though. And, finding reliable top 4 defenseman can be tricky.

Dusty Buff and Burmi is something I generally go back and forth on. I have a sinking suspicion that if we trade away Buff, the team will take a step back and lose out on some very valuable D depth. Buff, Bogo, Trouba/Red/Post is really good right side depth. It's much less impressive without him. My opinion is to wait to trade until we see what we have in Trouba. All signs point to amazing, but Id like to see how soon he can be trusted with tough minutes before tossing away our top pairing DMan.

I'm kind of loathe to get rid of Alex, because you can see he has all the tools to be a pretty incredible player...he just needs the chance to put it all together. I don't really think Noel is giving him that chance, and some of that is Burmi's fault. I think if given the right have he could be our answer to the RW problem. He seems to have decent chemistry with Kane, and I imagine that with Scheifele that could be a potentially potent 2nd line and give us an actual top six...not a top line and Kane.

If I was going to trade him, I think it would be for a package for a guy
like MDZ. Which would really improve our D.

That would look like:

Enstrom Buff
MDZ Bogo
Stuart Redmond/Post/Trouba

broinwhyteridge 06-12-2013 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guerzy (Post 67373627)
I'll be surprised if Thoburn is back. He may make it to camp, but I don't think he is on the team next year. Wouldn't be surprised if he was a throw-in to a deal over the summer or simply dealt for essentially nothing. It became all too obvious Noel didn't see much use for him, and with Peluso in the mix, Chevy has found his own tough guy.

Great guy in the room, but in my opinion he's gotta go, as he just doesn't add much of anything on the ice that is going to help this team win hockey games. I'll be surprised if 3 players under contract/Jets property are with the team next season - Byfuglien, Burmistrov, Thorburn. This is the offseason as far as I am concerned that Chevy makes a bold move or two, and really changes the tide here. Going with the same group is simply doing the same thing over, in which we've essentially done the last 2 seasons. It doesn't work.

I am looking very forward to the potential of parting ways with Byfuglien, Burmistrov, Thorburn, Antropov, Miettinen, Hainsey, Wellwood, and possibly even borderline NHL'ers in Santorelli and Tangradi. If nothing more than to simply change the room and culture here. Wouldn't mind Hainsey back as I really admired his efforts this past season, I'll say that though. And, finding reliable top 4 defenseman can be tricky.

I hope and pray that the essence of your statement turns out to be what happens.

truck 06-12-2013 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guerzy (Post 67373627)
I am looking very forward to the potential of parting ways with Byfuglien, Burmistrov, Thorburn, Antropov, Miettinen, Hainsey, Wellwood, and possibly even borderline NHL'ers in Santorelli and Tangradi. If nothing more than to simply change the room and culture here. Wouldn't mind Hainsey back as I really admired his efforts this past season, I'll say that though. And, finding reliable top 4 defenseman can be tricky.

I hear what you are saying, but moving away from Byfuglien, Burmistrov, Wellwood, Antropov, Hainsey, Santorelli means you need to replace all of them - ideally with better players. That won't be easy.

It seems easy in HF boards fantasy land, but it won't be easy in real life.

A team that trades for Buff is probably going to be in win now mode and will be looking move young players / picks for him.

Meanwhile, Burmi's trade value is a huge question mark. Any trade involving Burmi will be hard to win.

For the Jets to move away from a third of their roster AND improve they will need to win two trades and win big in free agency.

Of course there is a chance Chevy takes two GMs to the cleaners. There is also a chance that Scheifele, Trouba, O'Dell and Lowry jump into the NHL and have amazing rookie seasons, odds are against it though.

Not to mention added heat to Chevy's seat if the Jets regress...

Do people really think Chevy will go from a boring waiver wire GM to a Holmgren / Sather clone overnight?

Guerzy 06-12-2013 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truck (Post 67378871)
I hear what you are saying, but moving away from Byfuglien, Burmistrov, Wellwood, Antropov, Hainsey, Santorelli means you need to replace all of them - ideally with better players. That won't be easy.

It seems easy in HF boards fantasy land, but it won't be easy in real life.

A team that trades for Buff is probably going to be in win now mode and will be looking move young players / picks for him.

Meanwhile, Burmi's trade value is a huge question mark. Any trade involving Burmi will be hard to win.

For the Jets to move away from a third of their roster AND improve they will need to win two trades and win big in free agency.

Of course there is a chance Chevy takes two GMs to the cleaners. There is also a chance that Scheifele, Trouba, O'Dell and Lowry jump into the NHL and have amazing rookie seasons, odds are against it though.

Not to mention added heat to Chevy's seat if the Jets regress...

Do people really think Chevy will go from a boring waiver wire GM to a Holmgren / Sather clone overnight?

I would expect a quality return for Byfuglien.

Burmistrov hasn't been much of anything for the Jets, but I would still expect Chevy to get a quality (likely) younger player, mid-twenties at least.

As I said, I would welcome Hainsey back given I admired the role he played and the efforts he put forth. Replacing top 4 defenseman can be difficult.

The others... Wellwood, Miettinen, Santorelli, Tangradi, etc.. are very, very, very easily replaced, in my opinion. And I personally feel confident in Chevy as a GM to bring in quality replacements. GM's do this every offseason, it's their job. Some work, some don't, but at the end of the day most guys in this league in the form I am mentioning, are very easily replaced.

Chevy has been in a wait-and-see, observation mode here in my opinion, and with contracts freeing up and guys possibly not being viewed as a fit moving forward (Byfuglien, Burmistrov, etc).. I don't see anything here that needs to be fantasy related, nor does Chevy have to go all Sather/Holmgren... I see it as a natural time to make some roster changes and go in a new direction as the opportunity presents itself.

At the end of the day here it is Chevy's job to improve this team, by all different ways I understand that. You cannot sit on your hands in fear of regressing. At some point you have to try. Chevy signed Jokinen, it didn't work out in year 1, but I don't blame Chevy for that --- he tried. You win some, you lose some. This is the offseason in which I hope to see Chevy get a little more active and fix some holes on this roster that over the last 2 years since coming to Winnipeg, have proven to be all too glaringly obvious. Time to fix them, that is the GM's job. If he doesn't address some of our roster issues via trade and free agency this summer, you can color me very surprised.

cbcwpg 06-12-2013 11:40 AM

Not really sure about what you have to give up to sign a specific player, but If we have the cap space and the willingness to spend some money, then forget about going after other teams "leftovers"... let's go after some entries.

Picking up someone that's getting towards the end of their career is not the best move IMO, go after someone that is skilled and has some mileage left would be ideal.

Grind 06-12-2013 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sully1410 (Post 67374725)

Enstrom Buff
MDZ Bogo
Stuart Redmond/Post/Trouba

drop stuart and resign clitsome and i'll take that d core anyday.

sully1410 06-12-2013 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbcwpg (Post 67379915)
Not really sure about what you have to give up to sign a specific player, but If we have the cap space and the willingness to spend some money, then forget about going after other teams "leftovers"... let's go after some entries.

Picking up someone that's getting towards the end of their career is not the best move IMO, go after someone that is skilled and has some mileage left would be ideal.

Well...yea. Obviously.

The problem is that they have 29 other teams to choose from lol.

sully1410 06-12-2013 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grind (Post 67380391)
drop stuart and resign clitsome and i'll take that d core anyday.

GC isn't great on that bottom pairing either. I kept Stuart, even though you could probably get a decent value in trade, because I think he is a great mentor for our young DMan. However, I do like that Clitsome does have offensive upside and can slot higher in the lineup if need be. Especially as a top pair with Dusty Buff...which is really weird.

I wouldn't put Stuart anywhere near that high.

For Stuart you could probably get a 2nd rd pick in trade.

This is really why I honestly think we should at least wait to see what we have in Trouba before trading away Buff. I think we could get a really good return, but in a new division with generally smaller teams, his stock will probably go up if anything.

It truly is time for this team to see some success, and I think we'll be in a better position to do that with Buff in the Line up. I wouldn't e super pissed if we did trade him, as long as Chevy has a plan for our Dcore.

Grind 06-12-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sully1410 (Post 67380883)
GC isn't great on that bottom pairing either. I kept Stuart, even though you could probably get a decent value in trade, because I think he is a great mentor for our young DMan. However, I do like that Clitsome does have offensive upside and can slot higher in the lineup if need be. Especially as a top pair with Dusty Buff...which is really weird.

I wouldn't put Stuart anywhere near that high.

For Stuart you could probably get a 2nd rd pick in trade.

This is really why I honestly think we should at least wait to see what we have in Trouba before trading away Buff. I think we could get a really good return, but in a new division with generally smaller teams, his stock will probably go up if anything.

It truly is time for this team to see some success, and I think we'll be in a better position to do that with Buff in the Line up. I wouldn't e super pissed if we did trade him, as long as Chevy has a plan for our Dcore.

clitsome is a more effective hockey player then stuart in every way that counts.


since he seems available, i'd rather have him. Also because as you stated it would eliminate completely ever having to have stuart above third pairing.

maximus tacitus 06-12-2013 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sully1410 (Post 67380883)
GC isn't great on that bottom pairing either. I kept Stuart, even though you could probably get a decent value in trade, because I think he is a great mentor for our young DMan. However, I do like that Clitsome does have offensive upside and can slot higher in the lineup if need be. Especially as a top pair with Dusty Buff...which is really weird.

I wouldn't put Stuart anywhere near that high.

For Stuart you could probably get a 2nd rd pick in trade.

This is really why I honestly think we should at least wait to see what we have in Trouba before trading away Buff. I think we could get a really good return, but in a new division with generally smaller teams, his stock will probably go up if anything.

It truly is time for this team to see some success, and I think we'll be in a better position to do that with Buff in the Line up. I wouldn't e super pissed if we did trade him, as long as Chevy has a plan for our Dcore.

Clitsome improved last year and I think Stuart has hit his ceiling of a solid dressing room guy but meh bottom pairing defender

I also have zero concerns regarding Trouba on a bottom pairing - he's already much better than Postma in his own zone

edit: ha just realized bolded isn't saying much but you get my point - he'll be fine

truck 06-12-2013 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guerzy (Post 67379627)
At the end of the day here it is Chevy's job to improve this team, by all different ways I understand that. You cannot sit on your hands in fear of regressing. At some point you have to try. Chevy signed Jokinen, it didn't work out in year 1, but I don't blame Chevy for that --- he tried. You win some, you lose some. This is the offseason in which I hope to see Chevy get a little more active and fix some holes on this roster that over the last 2 years since coming to Winnipeg, have proven to be all too glaringly obvious. Time to fix them, that is the GM's job. If he doesn't address some of our roster issues via trade and free agency this summer, you can color me very surprised.

I agree with all that. I am just not sure Chevy is the bold move type.

He may be. He perhaps should be, given where the team is at, but I don't know if he is.

Perhaps he has been waiting. Perhaps what we've seen is what we've got.

We will see.

Guerzy 06-12-2013 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truck (Post 67384821)
I agree with all that. I am just not sure Chevy is the bold move type.

He may be. He perhaps should be, given where the team is at, but I don't know if he is.

Perhaps he has been waiting. Perhaps what we've seen is what we've got.

We will see.

I definitely agree with you here. I really hope to see Chevy get more bold and active this summer in his potential changes to the roster. We know we need help, a top 6 RW, a competent bottom 6, perhaps a defenceman to fill Hainsey's spot if he doesn't believe Clitsome is that guy, etc.

Many holes here on the roster, it would be a shame in my opinion to not see some of them filled in order to improve the team, or, at least try.

Over the last 2 seasons we've had many of the same problems and roster holes, it's time to fix them, in my opinion.

allan5oh 06-12-2013 01:11 PM

Now that Streit's rights were traded to Philly, that means Briere is either available or will be bought out. Any interest?

Guerzy 06-12-2013 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allan5oh (Post 67385135)
Now that Streit's rights were traded to Philly, that means Briere is either available or will be bought out. Any interest?

I would entertain that thought. Big question is he healthy from his concussion? I don't know if he's a top 2 line forward given he'll be 36 in October, but we could use what he can still offer in my opinion even if it's on the 3rd line. Who knows, maybe he surprises and has a productive season left in him.

Not sure it's totally worth it though the more I think about it, as he'll be nothing more than a stop gap given his age. With the direction we're headed, it may make more sense to get players who will be here for longer than Briere will be.

sully1410 06-12-2013 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grind (Post 67383855)
clitsome is a more effective hockey player then stuart in every way that counts.


since he seems available, i'd rather have him. Also because as you stated it would eliminate completely ever having to have stuart above third pairing.

I agree. It just seems like Grant is so much better with more reaponsibilty. It's weird. I'm not a huge Stuart fan, in in favor of shipping him off as I think he easily replaced. I think he brings alot interms of leadership and stuff though.

Not that that is the end all be all. I'd be fine either way.


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