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-   -   I wish we missed the playoffs or lost 4-0 to Ana (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1446229)

Detroit Sports* 06-12-2013 03:55 PM

I wish we missed the playoffs or lost 4-0 to Ana
 
For Kenny to bring back Cleary and more retreads, washed up players his excuse is we took Chicago to 7 games OT and blah blah blah. If the Blackhawks win the cup it will be worse. This is the same ol' same ol' summer from Kenny book it! :deadhorse:madfire::madfire::madfire::madfire:

Heaton 06-12-2013 03:59 PM

Nothing would have changed regardless. Holland and co. have their plan whether they miss the playoffs or win the cup.

The Zetterberg Era 06-12-2013 04:00 PM

Said I didn't really want Cleary to have a big post-season, but will always root for this team to win. The issue with him coming back has more to do with money and role in my mind and the later will be decided by Babcock. Cleary on the third or fourth line without PP duty isn't the worst, unfortunately Babcock and not Holland is going to control that.

This is the most unsurprising thread of the off-season. Lets ignore the fact Holland was bang on with this team, has pulled off the first step to a rebuild on the fly that got us to an overtime in game 7 with the eventual Stanley Cup runners up.

Detroit Sports* 06-12-2013 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heaton (Post 67392925)
Nothing would have changed regardless. Holland and co. have their plan whether they miss the playoffs or win the cup.

You really believe if we didn't make the playoffs it would be status quo and re-sign all the dead weight?

WingedWheel1987 06-12-2013 04:01 PM

Ken Holland is in love with washed up veterans. Only way Cleary doesn't sign with Detroit, is if Cleary decides he doesn't want to play anymore or doesn't want to play with the Wings.

I wonder if Holland even goes to his office anymore. He can easily manage the team from the golf course. How hard is it to do nothing and play golf?

Kronwalled55 06-12-2013 04:02 PM

The only piece that had a chance of being changed was Filppula in my opinion. He had a crap playoffs, and now it looks like he's going. He had a chance to redeem himself and he didn't really do that.

HTT3* 06-12-2013 04:02 PM

Cleary has been really good for us and will continue to be good for us. I see no problem re-signing him, he's a big part of this team's success.

WingedWheel1987 06-12-2013 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HTT3 (Post 67393075)
Cleary has been really good for us and will continue to be good for us. I see no problem re-signing him, he's a big part of this team's success.

You forgot the :sarcasm: emoticon.

Detroit Sports* 06-12-2013 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 67393015)
Said I didn't really want Cleary to have a big post-season, but will always root for this team to win. The issue with him coming back has more to do with money and role in my mind and the later will be decided by Babcock. Cleary on the third or fourth line without PP duty isn't the worst, unfortunately Babcock and not Holland is going to control that.

This is the most unsurprising thread of the off-season. Lets ignore the fact Holland was bang on with this team, has pulled off the first step to a rebuild on the fly that got us to an overtime in game 7 with the eventual Stanley Cup runners up.

That Jurco in your avi will be on the Wings in 2017. This team needs a new philosophy.No more washed up veterans!

The Zetterberg Era 06-12-2013 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heaton (Post 67392925)
Nothing would have changed regardless. Holland and co. have their plan whether they miss the playoffs or win the cup.

Very true, Shero referenced that today.

Cleary really wants to stay in Detroit and is a big voice in that dressing room. We might not like him, but his teammates and coaches love the guy. Realistically that was always going to be the case, the fact he outscored Datsyuk in the post-season really helped his position with the Wings, good on him for coming through even if I didn't really want to see him be that major of a contributor. We don't get as far without him this year and that is a hard fact to admit, he was very good in the playoffs.

Detroit Sports* 06-12-2013 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 (Post 67393059)
Ken Holland is in love with washed up veterans. Only way Cleary doesn't sign with Detroit, is if Cleary decides he doesn't want to play anymore or doesn't want to play with the Wings.

I wonder if Holland even goes to his office anymore. He can easily manage the team from the golf course. How hard is it to do nothing and play golf?

Not true. Holland is usually drunk when assessing the team, I'm pretty sure the golf courses don't allow that.:sarcasm:

The Zetterberg Era 06-12-2013 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroit Sports (Post 67393175)
That Jurco in your avi will be on the Wings in 2017. This team needs a new philosophy.No more washed up veterans!

Simply not true, but let hyperbole rule the day I guess.

WingedWheel1987 06-12-2013 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 67393177)
Very true, Shero referenced that today.

Cleary really wants to stay in Detroit and is a big voice in that dressing room. We might not like him, but his teammates and coaches love the guy. Realistically that was always going to be the case, the fact he outscored Datsyuk really helped his position with the Wings, good on him for coming through even if I didn't really want to see him be that major of a contributor. We don't get as far without him this year and that is a hard fact to admit, he was very good in the playoffs.

Is going an extra round worth bringing back Cleary for two years?

You are winning short term(Even though winning one round means absolutely nothing), but losing long term.

The real Dan Cleary is going to be back next season and you know it.

Detroit Sports* 06-12-2013 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 67393177)
Very true, Shero referenced that today.

Cleary really wants to stay in Detroit and is a big voice in that dressing room. We might not like him, but his teammates and coaches love the guy. Realistically that was always going to be the case, the fact he outscored Datsyuk in the post-season really helped his position with the Wings, good on him for coming through even if I didn't really want to see him be that major of a contributor. We don't get as far without him this year and that is a hard fact to admit, he was very good in the playoffs.

He got a few goals off his body and an EN goal. He is terrible. Just like Bickell hot at the right time. Basically another Fernando Pisani clone.

HTT3* 06-12-2013 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroit Sports (Post 67393247)
Not true. Holland is usually drunk when assessing the team, I'm pretty sure the golf courses don't allow that.:sarcasm:

A drunk Holland is 99.9% better than any other GM in the NHL. That says a lot. :laugh:

WingedWheel1987 06-12-2013 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HTT3 (Post 67393515)
A drunk Holland is 99.9% better than any other GM in the NHL. That says a lot. :laugh:

Drunk Holland signed Mikael Samuelsson to a two year deal and it was viewed as an awful signing immediately. I remember when people laughed about Holland signing Sammy several months before he was signed as a bad joke. Even Holland supporters didn't think he was that predictable or stupid. Welcome to year two of a bad joke.

The guy is just living off of his reputation at this point.

He has done nothing to improve this team the past four years and yet he talks about all the amazing prospects that never get any ice time because of the washed up veterans he signs, who take up all the roster spots.

HTT3* 06-12-2013 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 (Post 67394095)
Drunk Holland signed Mikael Samuelsson to a two year deal and it was viewed as an awful signing immediately. I remember when people laughed about Holland signing Sammy several months before he was signed as a bad joke. Even Holland supporters didn't think he was that predictable or stupid. Welcome to year two of a bad joke.

The guy is just living off of his reputation at this point.

He has done nothing to improve this team the past four years and yet he talks about all the amazing prospects that never get any ice time because of the washed up veterans he signs, who take up all the roster spots.

Holland should be able to predict injuries too? Is there a GM in the league that can predict injuries? If so, the government should hire him to predict the fate of the country.

Samuelsson was is a RH shot with size. He's a shooter, something this team needs. Has Sammy been healthy, he might have scored 12 to 15+ goals in the regular season. Zetterberg gets paid, what, $6 million and only scored 11.

As for Holland's reputation, wasn't this team, who is rebuilding, almost knock out the regular season champs to proceed to the WCFs?

Yeah, I'm sure there is about 29 other teams in the league wishing they had that kind of success. There's not a better GM in the world when it comes to hockey.

Hobnobs 06-12-2013 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroit Sports (Post 67392765)
For Kenny to bring back Cleary and more retreads, washed up players his excuse is we took Chicago to 7 games OT and blah blah blah. If the Blackhawks win the cup it will be worse. This is the same ol' same ol' summer from Kenny book it! :deadhorse:madfire::madfire::madfire::madfire:

Do you honestly think that successfull GMs make moves based on a playoff run or two? :laugh:

WingedWheel1987 06-12-2013 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HTT3 (Post 67394657)
Holland should be able to predict injuries too? Is there a GM in the league that can predict injuries? If so, the government should hire him to predict the fate of the country.

Samuelsson was is a RH shot with size. He's a shooter, something this team needs. Has Sammy been healthy, he might have scored 12 to 15+ goals in the regular season. Zetterberg gets paid, what, $6 million and only scored 11.

As for Holland's reputation, wasn't this team, who is rebuilding, almost knock out the regular season champs to proceed to the WCFs?

Yeah, I'm sure there is about 29 other teams in the league wishing they had that kind of success. There's not a better GM in the world when it comes to hockey.

Every year it's the same excuse. We almost beat "X" team, but injuries hurt us. Ken Holland makes the same excuses every year and every year the media eats up every word. For the record, I knew the Sammy signing was awful the moment it was announced. Ken Holland just loves washed up veterans. It's his one major flaw as a GM and normally that wouldn't be a big flaw, but the current state of the Red Wings can't afford to keep bringing on more washed up veterans. What if Sammy scored 100 goals? A lot of "what if's", but nothing else.

Let's look at the results.

2nd round exit
2nd round exit
1st round exit
2nd round exit

Looks to me like Kenny has built a mediocre team that is fodder for good teams.

buhhh buhhh we took the Hawks to seven games. WOOO HOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

That is not something to cheer about. They were up 3-1 and lost the series. That is absolutely pathetic.

WingedWheel1987 06-12-2013 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobnobs (Post 67394733)
Do you honestly think that successfull GMs make moves based on a playoff run or two? :laugh:

Well he certainly isn't bringing him back because of what he has done the past two years.

The playoff run definitely helped. Kenny loves washed up veterans. I personally believe Cleary was going to come back either way, but now he at least has some evidence to support such a terrible signing.

Guru Meditation 06-12-2013 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 67393177)
Cleary really wants to stay in Detroit and is a big voice in that dressing room. We might not like him, but his teammates and coaches love the guy. Realistically that was always going to be the case, the fact he outscored Datsyuk in the post-season really helped his position with the Wings, good on him for coming through even if I didn't really want to see him be that major of a contributor. We don't get as far without him this year and that is a hard fact to admit, he was very good in the playoffs.

This is the thing. Some players just really can't win with our fanbase. I'm not a huge Cleary fan, but he made this an easy decision for Holland to make: he played his ass off in the playoffs (and played through serious injuries), outperformed very good players, and seems to really value being a Wing. The Wings value having guys around like that, guys who would block a shot with their face to stay a Wing, because it's good for the young guys. Cleary has that team loyalty that Holland really wants his young players to buy into.

It's sort of weird though, because other fanbases really love their heart-and-soul type guys, but we've begun to hate ours. I wonder why that is.

ricky0034 06-12-2013 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru Meditation (Post 67395003)
This is the thing. Some players just really can't win with our fanbase. I'm not a huge Cleary fan, but he made this an easy decision for Holland to make: he played his ass off in the playoffs (and played through serious injuries), outperformed very good players, and seems to really value being a Wing. The Wings value having guys around like that, guys who would block a shot with their face to stay a Wing, because it's good for the young guys. Cleary has that team loyalty that Holland really wants his young players to buy into.

It's sort of weird though, because other fanbases really love their heart-and-soul type guys, but we've begun to hate ours. I wonder why that is.

perhaps because ours are terrible players that inexplicably get stapled to the wing of our best players while good prospects rot in the AHL until they run out of waiver options or there's a ****ton of injuries and the Wings are literally forced to call them up?

WingedWheel1987 06-12-2013 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricky0034 (Post 67395213)
perhaps because ours are terrible players that inexplicably get stapled to the wing of our best players?

That's pretty much it.

The current heart and soul players on the Wings are destroying my heart and soul.

Detroit Sports* 06-12-2013 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricky0034 (Post 67395213)
perhaps because ours are terrible players that inexplicably get stapled to the wing of our best players while good prospects rot in the AHL until they run out of waiver options or there's a ****ton of injuries and the Wings are literally forced to call them up?

wow someone with a pulse.

HTT3* 06-12-2013 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 (Post 67394877)
Every year it's the same excuse. We almost beat "X" team, but injuries hurt us. Ken Holland makes the same excuses every year and every year the media eats up every word. For the record, I knew the Sammy signing was awful the moment it was announced. Ken Holland just loves washed up veterans. It's his one major flaw as a GM and normally that wouldn't be a big flaw, but the current state of the Red Wings can't afford to keep bringing on more washed up veterans. What if Sammy scored 100 goals? A lot of "what if's", but nothing else.

Let's look at the results.

2nd round exit
2nd round exit
1st round exit
2nd round exit

Looks to me like Kenny has built a mediocre team that is fodder for good teams.

buhhh buhhh we took the Hawks to seven games. WOOO HOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

That is not something to cheer about. They were up 3-1 and lost the series. That is absolutely pathetic.

I'd be interested in hearing about a more consistent team the past 4 or 5 years who never had a top 15 draft pick. Can you name one?
  • Chicago? Nope, 1st round exit in 2010 (and are stacked from tanking for 60 years)
  • Penguins? Nope, 1st round exit in 2011 (and are stacked from tanking for 20 years)
  • Boston? Nope, didn't they choke in 2009 and 2010, and 1st round exit 2012
  • Canucks? Nope, 1st round exit in 2012 (and are stacked from sucking for so long)

There are four top teams that had bigger garbage runs than Detroit. The difference is, Detroit is rebuilding, those teams were going-all-in for a cup.

Guess facts just blew up your theory :laugh:


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