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-   -   GDT: Around the League #6: Dat Hertl (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1446671)

s7ark 06-13-2013 09:58 AM

Around the League #6: Dat Hertl
 
Continue here. Last thread.


A few posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Perfect Human (Post 67426455)
Let's not pretend Bruins didn't get a ton of bounces in the first 3 rounds though...

Hockey's going to have it's up and downs - it's what you do in between those "lucky" goals that determines the winner.

They'll bounce back, hopefully - but it's going to be hard after going out the way did tonight. Thankfully they have a couple days to rest before Game 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly85 (Post 67426877)
Wow I don't know what the hell you guys were watching but I thought the Hawks carried the play for the majority of two overtimes. That being said the Bruins definitely got the more dangerous chances in overtime. Great games by both goalies and hard simple work on the winner. Hawks out hit and out shot the Bruins if I'm not mistaken as well. Looks like their timing was off, they were only able to get the "Hawks Engine" rolling for moments during the game, but that's credit to the Bruins too for managing the game so very well and playing real solid on the road, despite losing. Hossa, Kane and Toews were all off on their timing and finish, but Hossa looks like he could explode at any moment. Krejci and Lucic are also amazing. These teams are very evening matched.



B's missed Horton back in 2011 and managed to win. Campbell is meh. Seguin woke up in the third and OT and played quite well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replacement (Post 67427121)
Bruins dominated in the 1st and 3rd OT periods and could've ended the game a dozen times. Not only were they dominant they were getting the much better scoring chances.
Hawks controlled the 2nd OT period but were reeling in the 3rd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replacement (Post 67427479)
I've watched the 2nd hawks goal, the critical goal in the game, 10 times and its clearly offside and the puck is clearly bounced out of the zone. That was not a legit tag up on the play and the Hawks got every benefit of doubt on that play where the whistle would be blown virtually everytime. Curious decision allowing Hawks to have an obvious scoring chance.

The game was over without that goal. Then the Ference own goal hooboy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly85 (Post 67427605)
Well, I watched the entire game with my own two eyes, very closely, wide awake. I could argue and debate with you but it would be completely pointless because I simply don't agree. Not to mention you have a blatant hate on for the Hawks and refuse to give them almost any credit. And I could really care less, I just find it odd. I do not think the Bruins by any means "dominated" the 1st and 3rd OT's. they picked their spots and turned it on when they needed to and were very cautious in applying the gas. It was a topsy turvy, sometimes sloppy affair but I will admit the B's definitely got the more dangerous scoring chances. Chi d-men and forwards in many instances made desperation plays though, laying it all on the line. I don't think the Hawks played a great game to be honest, even though the game itself was quite entertaining. B's played almost a perfect road game and deserved better. Horrible play by Hjalmarsson on the first GA and he adjusted after that. I'm sure Kane will have that 2nd goal shown to him repeatedly on tape. This is going to be a very interesting series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Section337 (Post 67428475)
In OT, I found the Bruins held the transitional game advantage, which led to most of their chances. While the Hawks held the offensive-zone pressure advantage, which led to most of their chances. Backwardsy, but the game ebbed and flowed, often from line to line.



In my opinion, at a minimum, Bolland had a skate on the blue line when the puck crossed into the offensive zone. And though I remember the rule used to require you to cross over the blue line into the neutral zone to clear the zone and not be offside, the rules now only need a player to have a skate come into contact with the line to have cleared the zone..

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Ones (Post 67429927)
And jagr hooked malkin. Who gives a flying ****.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon (Post 67430079)
Agree completely with this. Chicago probably had the puck for 60% of the OT, while 4 of the best 5 scoring chances belonged to Boston.

This series already has the makings of a classic, excellent first game I thought. A little sloppy in regulation, but they pretty much played a second game afterwards that was great hockey and wildly entertaining throughout.

In the end, Chicago was able to roll four lines more effectively. The role players stepped up again. Frolik and Kruger killed off two penalties in OT, Shaw and Bolland had great games, and Bollig got a regular shift in OT while his opposite Thornton was stapled to the bench (not that I agree with Claude Julien in that instance).

Hawks depth on defense paid off. McQuaid and Krug barely saw the ice in OT, and Ference was on the ice for the 2nd and 3rd Hawks goals. Conversely, Chicago's 6th d-man played 30 minutes and set up the winning goal.

Hope Horton is OK, but that seems doubtful. It would be a real shame if he missed another final, and his line has been the engine driving the Bruins. They won their matchup against Toews tonight. If he's toast for the series, that's a devastating blow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replacement (Post 67431629)
The bruins outshot and outplayed the Hawks by a fair margin in the 1st OT. I don't know how anybody would even dispute that. In the 3rd OT the Hawks were in a lot of trouble and almost got scored against 5 times before they got a routine point shot and ended it. The NBC telecast(good) definitely concurred that the Hawks tooked to be in trouble and the Bruins were dominatiing. Crawford kept the Hawks in the game for a longtime and was suburb.


In this playoffs I've rarely seen a line call viewed this liberally. Its quite clear it wasn't even an intended tag up. The player at the line pushes the puck back in trying to feign that it didn't go out at all. The puck was out by a foot. I don't know the refs even caught that. That play gets blown down easily 9 times out of 10. But its the swift hawks so its allowed.

Hawks really got the home officiating tonight. They had 6 forwards on the ice for nearly a whole shift before getting called. The puck even hit an extra hawk coming on 20 secs earlier in the shift.

Hawks got all the breaks in this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CupofOil (Post 67434541)
Completey disagree. The Bruins flat out dominated those OT's, i'd say that they had at least 5-6 prime chances to score and hit 2 posts as well. I can think of maybe 2 prime chances that the Hawks had. They looked like the more fatigued team IMO.
The Hawks dominated the 2nd and 3rd periods for sure but the OT's were mostly Bruins. I guess the Hawks had more possession time but i consider getting more scoring chances to be the dominating factor.


dustrock 06-13-2013 10:03 AM

To respond to Philly85 re Horton and Campbell:

(1) Horton was having the playoffs of his life and the Horton-Krejci-Lucic line was the best line in the playoffs, he's having far more of an impact this year than he did in 2011;

(2) Boston needs a guy like Michael Ryder to step up in Horton's absence and provide some secondary scoring - IMHO, the series will really come down to Jagr and Sequin;

(3) You call Campbell "meh", but he was having one hell of a playoffs and the Merlot Line was very effective; in 2011, Kelly and Peverly were superb, this year, they look pretty mediocre and I wasn't surprised when Kelly's line was on for the GWG;

So Julien has a couple of interesting decisions to make:

(1) Does he play Krug, who was awful and quite frankly hasn't been great the last few games? Or does he bring in Redden or Bartkowski? I'd try Bart myself.

(2) If Horton is hurt, does he bring in Caron? The Yeti? Pandolfo?

Section337 06-13-2013 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replacement
In this playoffs I've rarely seen a line call viewed this liberally. Its quite clear it wasn't even an intended tag up. The player at the line pushes the puck back in trying to feign that it didn't go out at all. The puck was out by a foot. I don't know the refs even caught that. That play gets blown down easily 9 times out of 10. But its the swift hawks so its allowed.

What does intent have to do with offsides? The puck comes out of the offensive zone, Bolland clears the offensive zone (touches the blue line with a skate) and does cross back into the zone (both skates past forward edge of blue line) until after the puck on Shaw's stick crosses the forward edge of the blue line.

I'm not sure why it wouldn't be called as is.

nofool6110 06-13-2013 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustrock (Post 67436563)
To respond to Philly85 re Horton and Campbell:

(1) Horton was having the playoffs of his life and the Horton-Krejci-Lucic line was the best line in the playoffs, he's having far more of an impact this year than he did in 2011;

(2) Boston needs a guy like Michael Ryder to step up in Horton's absence and provide some secondary scoring - IMHO, the series will really come down to Jagr and Sequin;

(3) You call Campbell "meh", but he was having one hell of a playoffs and the Merlot Line was very effective; in 2011, Kelly and Peverly were superb, this year, they look pretty mediocre and I wasn't surprised when Kelly's line was on for the GWG;

So Julien has a couple of interesting decisions to make:

(1) Does he play Krug, who was awful and quite frankly hasn't been great the last few games? Or does he bring in Redden or Bartkowski? I'd try Bart myself.

(2) If Horton is hurt, does he bring in Caron? The Yeti? Pandolfo?

To answer your last two, Julien probably changes Krug, because he's been awful (I'd trust Wade Redden), and promotes Seguin to first line duties (he had a pretty decent game last night) and brings in Pandolfo.

Hockey Nightmare 06-13-2013 04:09 PM

Isn't it rather ludicrous that they're waiting till Saturday for the second game?

Replacement 06-13-2013 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Ones (Post 67452559)
Isn't it rather ludicrous that they're waiting till Saturday for the second game?

The script called for them to play the first 2 games on Wednesday...:p:

nofool6110 06-13-2013 10:03 PM

Here's an OT (as in not on the playoffs) question on re-alignment:

What's the most likely scenario for next year?
Phoenix staying in Arizona
Phoenix moving to Seattle, keeping re-alignment the same
Phoenix moving to Quebec, shifting Colorado into our division, shifting the Red Wings back west

frag2 06-13-2013 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofool6110 (Post 67466231)
Here's an OT (as in not on the playoffs) question on re-alignment:

What's the most likely scenario for next year?
Phoenix staying in Arizona
Phoenix moving to Seattle, keeping re-alignment the same
Phoenix moving to Quebec, shifting Colorado into our division, shifting the Red Wings back west

I read somewhere the dark horse city is Kansas since they already have an NHL atena

nofool6110 06-13-2013 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frag2 (Post 67468193)
I read somewhere the dark horse city is Kansas since they already have an NHL atena

That, the fourth option, would likely involve Colorado switching to our division and Kansas City Coyotes going to "Division 2".

In terms of likelihood, it seems that moving the team to Seattle would be preferred, followed by Kansas, and then finally by Quebec.

Any chance the team goes into a dispersal draft? It seems dumber, because then you'd run with 29 teams (what an ugly number) and have to grant three expansion teams instead of two to get to the magic number of 32.

Eskie Jetski 06-13-2013 11:05 PM

How about shifting Tampa and Florida out west instead of Detroit? It would balance out the conferences again and those two teams only need to travel out of one time zone for division games. Their rivals in their current division are all in Eastern Canada and the Northern US, at least Nashville and Dallas would provide a southern feel. Plus, they get to retain Winnipeg as a division rival!

nofool6110 06-13-2013 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eskie Jetski (Post 67468511)
How about shifting Tampa and Florida out west instead of Detroit? It would balance out the conferences again and those two teams only need to travel out of one time zone for division games. Their rivals in their current division are all in Eastern Canada and the Northern US, at least Nashville and Dallas would provide a southern feel. Plus, they get to retain Winnipeg as a division rival!

Can we start the Florida to our division chant right here? We'll give them Los Angeles! If they ask now, we'll throw in Vancouver for TBL! :sarcasm:

Replacement 06-13-2013 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Section337 (Post 67441419)
What does intent have to do with offsides? The puck comes out of the offensive zone, Bolland clears the offensive zone (touches the blue line with a skate) and does cross back into the zone (both skates past forward edge of blue line) until after the puck on Shaw's stick crosses the forward edge of the blue line.

I'm not sure why it wouldn't be called as is.

Meaning it wasn't even a timed tag up. Bolland was only trying to cover up that he had brought the puck from outside the zone, to inside the zone. If your telling me his linemates properly tagged up on that play I can show you 100 instances where a similar play would be called offside. Again my point being the refs took liberal licence here in granting benefit of doubt on a play that was obviously going to be a huge break.

When in doubt, and with this kind of instance, refs usually blow it down as it is obviously a game changing event and it WAS offside. How many times do you watch a game where a far more nebulous example of *offside* gets whistled down. Hockey, unintendedly, or consciously, has adopted some of the Soccer application of offside whereby in big games and at critical moments the refs usually err on the side of calling offside on anything even resembling a close call.

But oddly no ref even grabbing for whistle on this play. Strange. Its like they didn't even consider it could be offside.

Moose Coleman 06-14-2013 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofool6110 (Post 67466231)
Here's an OT (as in not on the playoffs) question on re-alignment:

What's the most likely scenario for next year?
Phoenix staying in Arizona
Phoenix moving to Seattle, keeping re-alignment the same
Phoenix moving to Quebec, shifting Colorado into our division, shifting the Red Wings back west

Seattle isn't an option: there's no rink there.
Qubec is a possibility I suppose, but there's no way the Wings come back west: Illitch and co. fought like hell for that move east.
What about this: they suspend the team, do a dispersal draft and work on replacing them with an expansion team.

joestevens29 06-14-2013 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofool6110 (Post 67466231)
Here's an OT (as in not on the playoffs) question on re-alignment:

What's the most likely scenario for next year?
Phoenix staying in Arizona
Phoenix moving to Seattle, keeping re-alignment the same
Phoenix moving to Quebec, shifting Colorado into our division, shifting the Red Wings back west

Personally I'd just prefer OEL to the Oilers and the rest fall however. ;)

harpoon 06-14-2013 08:42 AM

Evgeni Malkin getting paid .... $9.5 million caphit.
That's some silly money right there.

Replacement 06-14-2013 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harpoon (Post 67475965)
Evgeni Malkin getting paid .... $9.5 million caphit.
That's some silly money right there.

No wonder he played better than Crosby. Guess he had a lot of situational motivation. With a new contract in hand maybe we'll now see him coasting like Ovechkin.

Man, what would the Pens be paying if they had success in the playoffs this year?

Can't count the times people have bemoaned that we don't have these "generational talents" on the Oilers but I look around and its the deep teams like Boston and Chicago and LA that have prevailed in recent years.

Hockey being a teamsport and all.

joestevens29 06-14-2013 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harpoon (Post 67475965)
Evgeni Malkin getting paid .... $9.5 million caphit.
That's some silly money right there.

Why? He's one of the best players in the game. The max cap hit is still higher than that. Yes it is more than Crosby, but that's Crosby's issue for wanting a cap hit similar to his jersey number.

joestevens29 06-14-2013 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replacement (Post 67476273)
No wonder he played better than Crosby. Guess he had a lot of situational motivation. With a new contract in hand maybe we'll now see him coasting like Ovechkin.

Man, what would the Pens be paying if they had success in the playoffs this year?

Can't count the times people have bemoaned that we don't have these "generational talents" on the Oilers but I look around and its the deep teams like Boston and Chicago and LA that have prevailed in recent years.

Hockey being a teamsport and all.

The guy was making 8.7 before not like he got some sort of drastic increase. Even if he played worse than Crosby he would've got this money.

Replacement 06-14-2013 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joestevens29 (Post 67476625)
The guy was making 8.7 before not like he got some sort of drastic increase. Even if he played worse than Crosby he would've got this money.

I thought the NHL cap was due to go down and players were expected to have some contraction?

Increasing salary at this time seems silly, and represents more of the team cap. For a team that doesn't look so much like a team and could use a lot of help.

The tone of my post suggested that hockey contracts for elite players have been out of line for a longtime and continue to be. This is a team sport requiring multiple solid lines and D pairs to be contenders. This isn't basketball where you can pay a handfull of players the lionshare because thats who's getting the majority of the minutes..

I think one of the interesting things of late is that teams that DON'T have the highest priced players in the league are coming out ahead in a capped league.

Skm 06-14-2013 09:23 AM

For me it's not really about cap hit, it's about term. How effective is Malkin going to be in year 7 of the deal, when he's 35? That's my concern with all of these contracts, see: Richards, Lecavalier, Luongo, Franzen, etc.

I'd guess he will still be capable of putting up 50-60 points but is that worth $9.5M?

joestevens29 06-14-2013 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replacement (Post 67476819)
I thought the NHL cap was due to go down and players were expected to have some contraction?

Increasing salary at this time seems silly, and represents more of the team cap. For a team that doesn't look so much like a team and could use a lot of help.

The tone of my post suggested that hockey contracts for elite players have been out of line for a longtime and continue to be. This is a team sport requiring multiple solid lines and D pairs to be contenders. This isn't basketball where you can pay a handfull of players the lionshare because thats who's getting the majority of the minutes..

I think one of the interesting things of late is that teams that DON'T have the highest priced players in the league are coming out ahead in a capped league.

Elite players will always get their money and always have. Personally I don't care when Malkin gets paid like this. It's when a Semin gets a long term deal at high money or a Roman Josi that is the issue. The non-elite/non-consistent players that get paid is what the problem is.

joestevens29 06-14-2013 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skm (Post 67477081)
For me it's not really about cap hit, it's about term. How effective is Malkin going to be in year 7 of the deal, when he's 35? That's my concern with all of these contracts, see: Richards, Lecavalier, Luongo, Franzen, etc.

I'd guess he will still be capable of putting up 50-60 points but is that worth $9.5M?

What's the value though? You don't want to pay me the 9.5mil for 7 years fine. Give me 11 for 4.

The elite players are giving teams a break. Realistically they can ask for the 12mil max a year or whatever it is. But they aren't.

joestevens29 06-14-2013 03:39 PM

https://twitter.com/MayorSlyJames

KC mayor doesn't approve of team moving there.

joestevens29 06-14-2013 03:50 PM

NHL Network ‏@NHLNetwork 2m
The 2013 NHL Awards begin in 15 minutes. Be sure to tune in to #NHLNetwork at 5 ET #NHLAwards

Seems very odd timing.

402 06-14-2013 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joestevens29 (Post 67491943)
NHL Network ‏@NHLNetwork 2m
The 2013 NHL Awards begin in 15 minutes. Be sure to tune in to #NHLNetwork at 5 ET #NHLAwards

Seems very odd timing.

I know! Way too early I'm still in school


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