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-   -   Proposal: Stl-van (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1448255)

Daley Tarasenkshow 06-16-2013 12:17 PM

Stl-van
 
Blues Get:

#24 overall
Kesler

Canucks Get:

Jordan Schmaltz (1st rounder last year)
Ty Rattie
David Perron
5th round pick

My first proposal, so let me know if it's terrible or not. I know the canucks and their fans value Kesler high so I tried to accommodate. I also really think the blues need to hop into this years 1st round.

i see it as Schmaltz and the 5th for #24 and Rattie and Perron for Kesler.

SteenMachine 06-16-2013 12:22 PM

Trying to think of team needs, I assume they're going to want something around a top pairing d-man, and one that's right handed. So you're looking at Shattenkirk or bust.

Love 06-16-2013 12:29 PM

From this Canucks fans POV it doesnt seem terrible. The two concerns I would have are:

- Dont like giving up 1sts especially in this strong draft year.

- How close is Rattie to being NHL ready and what does he project to become?

Daley Tarasenkshow 06-16-2013 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteenMachine (Post 67555615)
Trying to think of team needs, I assume they're going to want something around a top pairing d-man, and one that's right handed. So you're looking at Shattenkirk or bust.

Maybe Schmaltz+Shattenkirk for Kesler and 1st? I think in that case VAN has to add at least a 4th.

Daley Tarasenkshow 06-16-2013 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love (Post 67555837)
From this Canucks fans POV it doesnt seem terrible. The two concerns I would have are:

- Dont like giving up 1sts especially in this strong draft year.

- How close is Rattie to being NHL ready and what does he project to become?

I tried to accommodate the fact that this years 1st seems more valuable than other years in the past.

Rattie will come over to the pros this year. He's honestly boom or bust. Put up huge numbers in the WHL, and is the new all time playoff goal leader, but he lacks strength and overall physicality. Could be a 40 goal scorer, could be a 10 goal scorer on the 4th line. Thats my take on him. He'll likely spend at least 1 year in the AHL depending on how he does. It's safe to say he'll score 20 goals or more per 82 though.

I think schmaltz is a safe bet as a top-4 or top-5 guy though.

Nuckles 06-16-2013 12:32 PM

That's an easy no from me (Canucks fan).

We would have no one to be our 2nd line center, and I personally think we're overpaying to fill a non-existent need.

Daley Tarasenkshow 06-16-2013 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuckles37 (Post 67555953)
That's an easy no from me (Canucks fan).

We would have no one to be our 2nd line center, and I personally think we're overpaying to fill a non-existent need.

That's a good point (about the center). Didn't think of that. How close or how far away are talks with Roy? if any.

Nuckles 06-16-2013 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by your jaskin too much (Post 67556145)
That's a good point (about the center). Didn't think of that. How close or how far away are talks with Roy? if any.

They are non-existent.

CM- 06-16-2013 12:47 PM

The offer isn't a bad offer but it is an offer that sends the message that Vancouver isn't retooling but are going into a rebuild. Which is why I don't think it would ever happen plus if GIllis is smart Kesler should be the last person to be traded (imo) even if we are rebuilding.

Daley Tarasenkshow 06-16-2013 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM- (Post 67556385)
The offer isn't a bad offer but it is an offer that sends the message that Vancouver isn't retooling but are going into a rebuild. Which is why I don't think it would ever happen plus if GIllis is smart Kesler should be the last person to be traded (imo) even if we are rebuilding.

Perron is solid and Schmaltz and Rattie are a year or two away at most.

Maybe a deal involving Shattenkirk would be better?

And you have to think that if Roy leaves wouldn't Gillis attempt a Riberio/Weiss?

AnthonyJohnson 06-16-2013 01:00 PM

Vancouver declines. The value is almost there but Vancouver will need a center coming back.
We'll add Booth and you add Sobotka and it's a deal.

AnthonyJohnson 06-16-2013 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by your jaskin too much (Post 67556599)
Perron is solid and Schmaltz and Rattie are a year or two away at most.

Maybe a deal involving Shattenkirk would be better?

And you have to think that if Roy leaves wouldn't Gillis attempt a Riberio/Weiss?

Would you do Schroeder + 2014 1st for Shattenkirk?

HooliganX2 06-16-2013 01:03 PM

Sorry Canucks fan from a Blues fan. It makes no sense while I would love Kesler there really isn't a deal to be made between us for him.

Daley Tarasenkshow 06-16-2013 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyJohnson (Post 67556807)
Would you do Schroeder + 2014 1st for Shattenkirk?

See then we are the team that will be in somewhat "rebuilding" mode.

Neither team is giving up a star without a star coming back, considering these are both playoff teams.

Not to mention its a 2014 1st...Value is way off.

myrocketsgotcracked 06-16-2013 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by your jaskin too much (Post 67555935)
I tried to accommodate the fact that this years 1st seems more valuable than other years in the past.

Rattie will come over to the pros this year. He's honestly boom or bust. Put up huge numbers in the WHL, and is the new all time playoff goal leader, but he lacks strength and overall physicality. Could be a 40 goal scorer, could be a 10 goal scorer on the 4th line. Thats my take on him. He'll likely spend at least 1 year in the AHL depending on how he does. It's safe to say he'll score 20 goals or more per 82 though.

I think schmaltz is a safe bet as a top-4 or top-5 guy though.

HOw can it be safe to say he'll be a 20 goals scorer when, in the same paragraph, you said he could be a 10 goals scorer on the 4th line?
As a nucks fan, if we trade kesler i hope to have a better return than this, especially since we are moving our 1st along with him.

AnthonyJohnson 06-16-2013 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by your jaskin too much (Post 67556859)
See then we are the team that will be in somewhat "rebuilding" mode.

Neither team is giving up a star without a star coming back, considering these are both playoff teams.

Not to mention its a 2014 1st...Value is way off.

How about Edler for Shattenkirk + Rattie?

Daley Tarasenkshow 06-16-2013 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myrocketsgotcracked (Post 67556931)
HOw can it be safe to say he'll be a 20 goals scorer when, in the same paragraph, you said he could be a 10 goals scorer on the 4th line?
As a nucks fan, if we trade kesler i hope to have a better return than this, especially since we are moving our 1st along with him.

That's the high-low value.

If we have to give any more up for Kesler than I'm not interested in doing a trade with VAN. I just don't think hes that more valuable than Rattie+Perron. Rattie is playing like he should have been picked in the top-20 of his draft and Perron is a solid supporting scorer that can put 20 goals and 30 assists in.

Daley Tarasenkshow 06-16-2013 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyJohnson (Post 67556953)
How about Edler for Shattenkirk + Rattie?

..no.

Shattenkirk had 43 points as a 23 year old and Edler had 49 as a 27 year old. If anything Vancouver is adding something with edler. Not too mention Rattie is a top 15 NHL prospect.

AnthonyJohnson 06-16-2013 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by your jaskin too much (Post 67557063)
..no.

Shattenkirk had 43 points as a 23 year old and Edler had 49 as a 27 year old. If anything Vancouver is adding something with edler. Not too mention Rattie is a top 15 NHL prospect.

No way is Shattenkirk better than Edler.

Daley Tarasenkshow 06-16-2013 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyJohnson (Post 67557107)
No way is Shattenkirk better than Edler.

Look at their stats, Edler is putting up as many points as Shattenkirk as a 26 and 27 years old and Shatty is 23 and 24. Assuming he grows he'll be better.

But even then you still think we'd have to add Rattie?

I wouldn't add rattie to shattenkirk if I was trading for Ryan Suter or even PK subban. Rattie has solid value.

Sergei Shirokov 06-16-2013 01:18 PM

Value's not bad but what we are getting doesn't make much sense.

For me it would have to be like Oshie/Shattenkirk+

AnthonyJohnson 06-16-2013 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by your jaskin too much (Post 67557199)
Look at their stats, Edler is putting up as many points as Shattenkirk as a 26 and 27 years old and Shatty is 23 and 24. Assuming he grows he'll be better.

But even then you still think we'd have to add Rattie?

I wouldn't add rattie to shattenkirk if I was trading for Ryan Suter or even PK subban. Rattie has solid value.

You seriously value those two way too high. You'd be nuts if you wouldn't do Shatty + Rattie for the Norris Trophy winning defenseman.

Daley Tarasenkshow 06-16-2013 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyJohnson (Post 67557349)
You seriously value those two way too high. You'd be nuts if you wouldn't do Shatty + Rattie for the Norris Trophy winning defenseman.

I just don't see how Edler is better than Shattenkirk?You still have not explained your side. THe stats have though.

AnthonyJohnson 06-16-2013 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by your jaskin too much (Post 67557391)
I just don't see how Edler is better than Shattenkirk?You still have not explained your side. THe stats have though.

Edler is much better and has way more value. His ceiling is higher than Shatty's. Edler has shown that he can consistently put up 40+ points each season and can play the point on the power play. He has great defensively play and can score in the shootout. He has a nice shot, is big, physical and is on a great contract locked up for 5 more years at a great price for a player of his calibre.

Ched Brosky 06-16-2013 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by your jaskin too much (Post 67557391)
I just don't see how Edler is better than Shattenkirk?You still have not explained your side. THe stats have though.

You know there's more to hockey than stats? Could it be that edler is better in the defensive zone and is more physical than shattenkirk giving him a more complete game? You know they have to be able to do other stuff than just put up points right? It's why the Mitchell's scuderi's hell even polak's of the world are valuable too.


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