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-   -   What exactly does Messier currently do for the organization? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1449219)

Crease 06-18-2013 07:53 AM

What exactly does Messier currently do for the organization?
 
Let me preface this thread by saying I will always be grateful to Mark Messier for what he brought to the franchise as a player from 1991 to 1997 (and to a lesser extent from 2000-2004). He's an all-time great, by all accounts a good person, and will be a lifetime ambassador for the franchise. So with that said...

What exactly does Messier do for the organization right now?

I know he's "Special Assistant to the President". From Day 1, it was implied that this was an apprenticeship for the GM position. From newspaper articles and interviews, it's difficult to figure out exactly what he does on a day to day basis. He sits in on scouting meetings. But does he scout? Does he sit in the room and observe Glen working the phones? Messier was made Special Assistant in 2009. Gorton was promoted to Assistant GM in 2011. Gorton took over the reigns earlier this year when Sather was on medical leave. All signs point to Sather having no interest in handing over his job to Messier upon retirement. So where does that leave Mess? He seems to have no career direction, throwing his hat in the ring for the head coaching job with absolutely zero legitimate experience. And when asked why he wanted to coach the team, he couldn't provide an answer. "I don't want to get into the specifics, it's too premature."

So in short, I'd like to understand what exactly Messier is doing, and hopes to do in the future for this organization. Does anyone have a clue? Does Mess?

Rangers Fail 06-18-2013 07:58 AM

I don't know what he's trying to do. I think he might be trying to gain as much power as possible within the org. But he's also unwilling to do anything for it; Go be a GM in the CHL, go coach in the USHL, CHL, ECHL, AHL, anywhere that's not PeeWee. He won't do any of that, it's probably way too far below him.

Anyway, all I know is that I don't want him coaching, and I definitely don't want him being the GM.

iamitter 06-18-2013 07:59 AM

He does professional scouting for the organization, not amateur really though.

As for what he does otherwise, I assume similar things to Rod Gilbert. Rod's more quirky, he walks in on random meetings and tells stories that are interesting, but have nothing to do with anything. Nobody interrupts him or tells him to stop, though, 'cause it's Rod Gilbert. Rod also hits on the ladies.

I assume Messier does similar things :laugh: They keep him around 'cause he wants to be around and they won't tell him no.

Punxrocknyc19* 06-18-2013 08:13 AM

maybe he convinces Sather who to sign as an UFA and tell those UFA to take the NYR overpaid contract :help:

Kershaw 06-18-2013 08:15 AM

Rangers version of Bobby Clarke in the making. Both on and off the ice.

Bob Richards 06-18-2013 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kershaw (Post 67635089)
Rangers version of Bobby Clarke in the making. Both on and off the ice.

I'd take that.

Bleed Ranger Blue 06-18-2013 09:28 AM

I dont think he does anything productive, to be honest. Sounds like hes got a fancy title from the organization and is waiting to be handed a management position (coach, GM, etc) that he doesn't deserve.

Crease 06-18-2013 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind (Post 67634699)
I don't know what he's trying to do. I think he might be trying to gain as much power as possible within the org. But he's also unwilling to do anything for it; Go be a GM in the CHL, go coach in the USHL, CHL, ECHL, AHL, anywhere that's not PeeWee. He won't do any of that, it's probably way too far below him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue (Post 67637325)
I dont think he does anything productive, to be honest. Sounds like hes got a fancy title from the organization and is waiting to be handed a management position (coach, GM, etc) that he doesn't deserve.

This is exactly what irks me about him. Sather approaches him in 2002 about coaching. Said he wasn't interested. Not ready to retire. In 2013 he decides he wants to coach. But he doesn't get the head coaching job and immediately takes himself out of the running for assistant coach. C'mon. This behavior is entirely unbecoming.

Bleed Ranger Blue 06-18-2013 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crease (Post 67637517)
This is exactly what irks me about him. Sather approaches him in 2002 about coaching. Said he wasn't interested. Not ready to retire. In 2013 he decides he wants to coach. But he doesn't get the head coaching job and immediately takes himself out of the running for assistant coach. C'mon.

Cant blame him for having a sense of entitlement, I guess. Hell, us fans gave it to him.

RangerBoy 06-18-2013 09:36 AM

Bobby Clarke reaped the benefits from Bob McCammon's drafts in Philly. He wasn't a very good GM in his first Philly GM stint. He went the North Stars. They lost in the Cup final in 1991. He went back to Philly for 1 year before going to FLA. Left FLA after 1 year. Clarke did a good job in his second Philly stint. Messier wants to be the boss without putting any work in. He scouts a few games here and there. Big whoop.

Greg02 06-18-2013 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crease (Post 67637517)
This is exactly what irks me about him. Sather approaches him in 2002 about coaching. Said he wasn't interested. Not ready to retire. In 2013 he decides he wants to coach. But he doesn't get the head coaching job and immediately takes himself out of the running for assistant coach. C'mon. This behavior is entirely unbecoming.

If Messier is really as entitled as he seems to be, it seems to hint that he won't be getting any major positions anytime soon. I mean, it irks us just from secondhand reports. Sather has been working with him the last four years.

TheRightWay 06-18-2013 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamitter (Post 67634703)
He does professional scouting for the organization, not amateur really though.

As for what he does otherwise, I assume similar things to Rod Gilbert. Rod's more quirky, he walks in on random meetings and tells stories that are interesting, but have nothing to do with anything. Nobody interrupts him or tells him to stop, though, 'cause it's Rod Gilbert. Rod also hits on the ladies.

I assume Messier does similar things :laugh: They keep him around 'cause he wants to be around and they won't tell him no.

Not really. Gilbert is heavily involved in Garden of Dreams and other stuff like that. He's not at all a part of the hockey side of things.

Messier is. He does some scouting. He is very much involved with the prospects. He makes visits to our prospects to watch them from a scouting point of view but also meets with them just to see how they are doing personally, make sure everything is okay, give out any advice and such, etc. These are things I know for a fact. From there, it's hard to really gauge what influence he has in terms of trades and the like. There's no doubt that he's not going to influence a decision the way a Gorton or Schoenfeld or Clark will, but he's also not a glorified intern, either. His voice is going to be heard and taken into account.

As for his career path? I don't know. I don't know if he knows. What we need to remember here is that everybody has different priorities and is willing to make different sacrifices. Messier reportedly had no interest in the Edmonton coaching job last year because he didn't want to move to Edmonton. It could be that Messier wants to spend the rest of his professional career in the NY area, and that's going to make it a lot harder for him to move up the ladder than it would be if he was willing to go take a head coaching job in the CHL or AHL. And maybe for Messier he'd prefer to just stick around in a front office role for the team he loves while living a comfortable life. Can't hold that against him if that's the case.

shoothepuck 06-18-2013 10:08 AM

He's an ex-athlete who's whole life revolved/es around the sport he excelled in. He's had an award named after him, Captaincies, Stanley cups and rings, charities, ect. Didn't he even try promoting a new type of hockey helmet? He most likely doesn't even know what he does or wants from hockey at this point.

Legend23 06-18-2013 10:10 AM

I dont think Messier is in line for the GM job. I really believe that if Sather stays at least another 2-3 years then John Davidson will be our next GM. He should have Columbus much improved by then and will be salivating at a chance at the Rangers job. Not sure how many years his contract is but I assume he would be able to get out of it somehow.

x BEUKEBOOM x 06-18-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kershaw (Post 67635089)
Rangers version of Bobby Clarke in the making. Both on and off the ice.

Accept Clarke cut his teeth in Minnesota with a dynamic North Stars team before coming to Philly.

I Am Chariot 06-18-2013 10:45 AM

The amount of disrespect in here is alarming.

He's the assistant to the GM. He's learning how they run a franchise.

Bleed Ranger Blue 06-18-2013 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Am Chariot (Post 67640319)
The amount of disrespect in here is alarming.

He's the assistant to the GM. He's learning how they run a franchise.

Disrespect? Give me a break.

Everyone respects what he did on the ice for this team 20 years ago.

Hes earned zero respect as a coach or an executive, but it sure seems like thats the future he wants to waltz into.

I Am Chariot 06-18-2013 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue (Post 67640455)
Disrespect? Give me a break.

Everyone respects what he did on the ice for this team 20 years ago.

Hes earned zero respect as a coach or an executive, but it sure seems like that's the future he wants to waltz into.


He's not a coach, so no need to disrespect his coaching.

He is an executive. As far as I see the team is competitive on and off the ice. It's not easy to win the cup, but I do believe the executive branch is putting effort and wisdom into building a winner. Every year 29 teams get it wrong. They appear to take steps in the right directions. We could debate signings, trades etc. At the end of the day I do believe they are building a better team.

Regardless I have not seen , nor heard , anything negative about Messier the executive. Seems to keep his day to day duties behind the closed doors, but that is also his mentor/superiors style. He may simply be doing his job, as he is asked to do...

iamitter 06-18-2013 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Am Chariot (Post 67641059)
He's not a coach, so no need to disrespect his coaching.

He is an executive. As far as I see the team is competitive on and off the ice. It's not easy to win the cup, but I do believe the executive branch is putting effort and wisdom into building a winner. Every year 29 teams get it wrong. They appear to take steps in the right directions. We could debate signings, trades etc. At the end of the day I do believe they are building a better team.

Regardless I have not seen , nor heard , anything negative about Messier the executive. Seems to keep his day to day duties behind the closed doors, but that is also his mentor/superiors style. He may simply be doing his job, as he is asked to do...

Don't kid yourself. The only reason he has a job is because he wants one. What he contributes isn't so much that he isn't replaceable. They made up a job title for him.

NHRangerfan 06-18-2013 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Am Chariot (Post 67640319)
The amount of disrespect in here is alarming.

He's the assistant to the GM. He's learning how they run a franchise.

Disrespect? How is that?

If you're trying to learn a craft don't you dedicate yourself to it full time???

I mean a year ago he was pushing his new helmet and now he's involved in a multi-arena project in the Bronx...his activities and projects outside of the Rangers lead to the questions being asked in this thread...in the words of Dave Checketts, "how long do we have to pay for the Stanley Cup".

Crease 06-18-2013 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Am Chariot (Post 67641059)
He's not a coach, so no need to disrespect his coaching.

He is an executive. As far as I see the team is competitive on and off the ice. It's not easy to win the cup, but I do believe the executive branch is putting effort and wisdom into building a winner. Every year 29 teams get it wrong. They appear to take steps in the right directions. We could debate signings, trades etc. At the end of the day I do believe they are building a better team.

Regardless I have not seen , nor heard , anything negative about Messier the executive. Seems to keep his day to day duties behind the closed doors, but that is also his mentor/superiors style. He may simply be doing his job, as he is asked to do...

My particular issue with Messier stems from him turning down the Edmonton Oilers' head coaching position last year, expressing interest in and interviewing for the Rangers head coaching position this year, then bowing out of consideration for the assistant coaching position.

Does he want to coach at the NHL level? Or only in New York and only as head coach? That is awful picky for someone without any professional experience in the role. It comes off as a power grab. As if he doesn't care what his title is, as long as he's steering the ship in New York.

Bleed Ranger Blue 06-18-2013 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Am Chariot (Post 67641059)
He's not a coach, so no need to disrespect his coaching.

He is an executive. As far as I see the team is competitive on and off the ice. It's not easy to win the cup, but I do believe the executive branch is putting effort and wisdom into building a winner. Every year 29 teams get it wrong. They appear to take steps in the right directions. We could debate signings, trades etc. At the end of the day I do believe they are building a better team.

Regardless I have not seen , nor heard , anything negative about Messier the executive. Seems to keep his day to day duties behind the closed doors, but that is also his mentor/superiors style. He may simply be doing his job, as he is asked to do...

Seems to me this is just another way of saying you have no idea what he does for the Rangers organization on a day to day basis. Thats what this thread is asking.

Furthermore, if he is an executive then why was he so willing to jump into coaching when the opportunity came knocking?

When I was straight out of college, my first boss told me that specializing your skill set will help keep your work focused. As I grow older, that advice still holds true for me. Does Messier know what he wants to do? An executive that throws his hat into the coaching search? All thats clear is that Messier wants to be a bigshot in some sort of capacity. He better decide which one.

I Am Chariot 06-18-2013 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue (Post 67640455)
Disrespect? Give me a break.

Everyone respects what he did on the ice for this team 20 years ago.

So why not give the guy some slack, give him a chance to have a career post player.

He didn't just lead NYR to their Cup. He has SIX
Pretty sure he is up their behind Gretzky in career pts.
Pretty sure he came into the league a promising prospect who GREW into a monster player.
Pretty sure he knows the game of Hockey like the back of his hand.

Not sure where the disrespect comes from. Because he left the team for more $$$ at the end of his career?

That's the business. These guys are DONE playing at 40. They need that last contract. So be it.

Personally I would LOVE to see what a Mark Messier built team would look like. I know all great players don't make great execs, but then again, some do. If they get the opportunity and some guidance while they learn.

Robs789 06-18-2013 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHRangerfan (Post 67641245)
Disrespect? How is that?

If you're trying to learn a craft don't you dedicate yourself to it full time???

I mean a year ago he was pushing his new helmet and now he's involved in a multi-arena project in the Bronx...his activities and projects outside of the Rangers lead to the questions being asked in this thread...in the words of Dave Checketts, "how long do we have to pay for the Stanley Cup".

This logic is just like saying that anyone who works in a company shouldnt have any side projects or startups...
We dont know how much work he actually gets from the Rangers. For all we know he gets an office and just sits in there all day...

NHRangerfan 06-18-2013 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Am Chariot (Post 67641397)
So why not give the guy some slack, give him a chance to have a career post player.

He didn't just lead NYR to their Cup. He has SIX
Pretty sure he is up their behind Gretzky in career pts.
Pretty sure he came into the league a promising prospect who GREW into a monster player.
Pretty sure he knows the game of Hockey like the back of his hand.

Not sure where the disrespect comes from. Because he left the team for more $$$ at the end of his career?

That's the business. These guys are DONE playing at 40. They need that last contract. So be it.

Personally I would LOVE to see what a Mark Messier built team would look like. I know all great players don't make great execs, but then again, some do. If they get the opportunity and some guidance while they learn.

So how does all the "Pretty" stuff relate to asking what he actually does for the organization on a day to day basis?

How does all the "Pretty" stuff translate to him learning a craft while at the same time having multiple outside interests?


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