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-   -   Rumor: Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1450535)

SnS 06-20-2013 12:15 PM

Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN)
 
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DrDangles 06-20-2013 12:25 PM

Bernier for Bennett and buyout Fleury, please. It just makes too much sense.

boredmale 06-20-2013 12:25 PM

From Previous thread...

Quote:

Bernier relieved Quick in a game in the Chicago series, after Quick gave up 4 goals and Bernier was stellar, giving up 0 goals in the last 30 minutes. He was totally poised and looked awesome. Only 30 minutes of playoffs, but his 1.88 GAA and 9-3 record was superior to Quick...by a good margin. Every time I see him play, his poise and technique is about as flawless as I have ever seen. It shows in his performance and results.
Going by that logic Kevin Poulin played 52 minutes for the Islanders in 2 playoff games, allowed 1 goal and had a .933 save percentage in the playoffs so why bother trading for another goalie

Curufinwe 06-20-2013 12:37 PM

Read for Bernier straight up still makes sense.

enigmatic 06-20-2013 12:42 PM

people are neglecting the fact that no matter what his value should be from prior trades like halak, bishop, etc, if a GM believes Bernier to be more valuable to his team going forward, then lets say the Isles first round pick, the GM will make the trade

snow isnt going to have to validate the trade from similar past trades, he will validate it by saying he believes the NYI are a better team today than they were yesterday

fsanford 06-20-2013 12:47 PM

Bernier is not a typical back up..

1st round pick
Won at every level with great numbers.

Played very well when given the opportunity. Has the pedigree (unlike some of the other guys being thrown out there.)

Calm in the net, great positioning, never scrambles to make the save, he just seems to be in the right place at the right time.

Plays behind one of the top 3 net minders in the league.
An outstanding puck handling goal tender.

Downside brutal in shoot outs. Then again he does not get a chance to be in very many so could be part of the problem



If any GM with a need at goalie has a first round pick 15 or later and is in need of a goal tender, the odds of Bernier panning out is much higher than that of a draft pick at that point. You make that trade in a second. You will not see many of the picks drafted 15 or later for several years, so why wait? Especially for a GM who needs to wind now.

I don't think there is any doubt there are 1st round offers out there, Kings don't have one this year as it stands now. So that is a no brainer.
The negotiation is on what additional things teams are willing to give up.

Really don't think the Kings want an NHL ready player if his salary exceeds 1.5 million.
Cap situation is not going to allow it. Lombardi wants prospects preferably left wing.

kinghock 06-20-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curufinwe (Post 67742865)
Read for Bernier straight up still makes sense.

May be for Philadelphia it does, but not for LA.
Kings will not have money next year for your undersized player.
You can keep Read.

YP44 06-20-2013 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsanford (Post 67743295)
Bernier is not a typical back up..

1st round pick
Won at every level with great numbers.

Played very well when given the opportunity. Has the pedigree (unlike some of the other guys being thrown out there.)

Calm in the net, great positioning, never scrambles to make the save, he just seems to be in the right place at the right time.

Plays behind one of the top 3 net minders in the league.
An outstanding puck handling goal tender.

Downside brutal in shoot outs. Then again he does not get a chance to be in very many so could be part of the problem



If any GM with a need at goalie has a first round pick 15 or later and is in need of a goal tender, the odds of Bernier panning out is much higher than that of a draft pick at that point. You make that trade in a second. You will not see many of the picks drafted 15 or later for several years, so why wait? Especially for a GM who needs to wind now.

I don't think there is any doubt there are 1st round offers out there, Kings don't have one this year as it stands now. So that is a no brainer.
The negotiation is on what additional things teams are willing to give up.

Really don't think the Kings want an NHL ready player if his salary exceeds 1.5 million.
Cap situation is not going to allow it. Lombardi wants prospects preferably left wing.

I don't think the fact he was a first round pick helps or hurts his value. Your second line of how he has won at every level, and his potential are what make him a hot commodity.

Just looking at capgeek. It is too bad the Islanders cannot use their Amnesty to buy out the cap hit from the Yashin buy out.

YP44 06-20-2013 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinghock (Post 67743409)
May be for Philadelphia it does, but not for LA.
Kings will not have money next year for your undersized player.
You can keep Read.

Read will only make 900k next year. Pretty good value. It's the year after that that I am worried about as he can walk as a UFA. However a conditional 2014 mid-round pick based on him re-signing would make that concern go away.

PWJunior 06-20-2013 12:58 PM

So if the Kings can't afford a roster player who makes over $1.5M cap hit in return for Bernier, then why wouldn't GM's tell Lombardi to take a hike with his demands and just wait to offer sheet Bernier? It'll be a 2nd round pick. What's stopping them from stripping Lombardi of all his leverage and doing that?

I'm confused because I kept reading that Lombardi will match no matter what if it's for a 2nd rounder. Now, I'm seeing that any return for Bernier needs to (preferably) be around $1.5M or below because the cap situation.

Vic Vinegar 06-20-2013 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDangles (Post 67742325)
Bernier for Bennett and buyout Fleury, please. It just makes too much sense.

Yes please. :nod:

Something tells me the Pens aren't offering this though. Otherwise the deal would be done by now.

boredmale 06-20-2013 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perro (Post 67743491)
It is too bad the Islanders cannot use their Amnesty to buy out the cap hit from the Yashin buy out.

What difference does it make, it's not like they will use the capspace(infact they probably will use Yashin's caphit to get over the cap min)

ScoreZeGoals 06-20-2013 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWJunior (Post 67743705)
So if the Kings can't afford a roster player who makes over $1.5M cap hit in return for Bernier, then why wouldn't GM's tell Lombardi to take a hike with his demands and just wait to offer sheet Bernier? It'll be a 2nd round pick. What's stopping them from stripping Lombardi of all his leverage and doing that?

I'm confused because I kept reading that Lombardi will match no matter what if it's for a 2nd rounder. Now, I'm seeing that any return for Bernier needs to (preferably) be around $1.5M or below because the cap situation.

Because if multiple teams are interested, there is no guarantee Bernier signs any particular teams offer sheet. You trade for Bernier to make sure you get his rights, then sign him. If Snow wants him, go get him, otherwise he risks not getting him. It's that simple. There leverage comes from there being multiple bidders, as long as that is the case, Lombardi will have some leverage

Vic Vinegar 06-20-2013 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWJunior (Post 67743705)
So if the Kings can't afford a roster player who makes over $1.5M cap hit in return for Bernier, then why wouldn't GM's tell Lombardi to take a hike with his demands and just wait to offer sheet Bernier? It'll be a 2nd round pick. What's stopping them from stripping Lombardi of all his leverage and doing that?

I'm confused because I kept reading that Lombardi will match no matter what if it's for a 2nd rounder. Now, I'm seeing that any return for Bernier needs to (preferably) be around $1.5M or below because the cap situation.

The Kings could afford Bernier for roughly 3M for one more year, but it's clearly not an ideal situation. The Kings also have more FA's to sign next summer so that's why the Kings would want cheaper players.

kinghock 06-20-2013 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perro (Post 67743621)
Read will only make 900k next year. Pretty good value. It's the year after that that I am worried about as he can walk as a UFA. However a conditional 2014 mid-round pick based on him re-signing would make that concern go away.

OK, I got it. We will not have 3-4 million in 2014 and Read will walk free.
As result we traded Bernier for one year of Read and 2014 mid-round pick.
Do you call it good asset management?

Tripod 06-20-2013 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinghock (Post 67743993)
OK, I got it. We will not have 3-4 million in 2014 and Read will walk free.
As result we traded Bernier for one year of Read and 2014 mid-round pick.
Do you call it good asset management?

And what if the offer for Read and the pick is the best offer? And then what if Bernier DOES come out and demand a trade and refuses to re-sign with LA. What then? Then the OS becomes a possibility...one with a 3 million dollar cost for a back-up. Does that make sense?

Or what if LA tries to wait then the other teams look elsewhere. Between now a July 5th, there are lots of options. After July 5th, with UFA's on the market, the options will deminish.

SolidSnakeUS 06-20-2013 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinghock (Post 67743993)
OK, I got it. We will not have 3-4 million in 2014 and Read will walk free.
As result we traded Bernier for one year of Read and 2014 mid-round pick.
Do you call it good asset management?

As of right now, you have almost 19M in cap space for the 2014-15 season. Is 3 million really that much for a two-way forward who can snipe?

etherialone 06-20-2013 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perro (Post 67743621)
Read will only make 900k next year. Pretty good value. It's the year after that that I am worried about as he can walk as a UFA. However a conditional 2014 mid-round pick based on him re-signing would make that concern go away.

Read plus Cousins would be a great deal for the Kings.

If Read were signed for 3 years (this year is set and two additional) for at or near the $2.5m per mark then a straight up swap would be a great deal for us.

Read would plug right into our team and be a great addition but having for only 1 year doesn't work. Of course we would have first shot at signing him but that doesn't matter so much when teh cost is JB.

The cap will be going up after this coming season but how much is the question? With that uncertainty and the fact that we have a few other contracts, some of them big so that has to be a consideration too.

One year of Read (potentially) isn't worth the price of JB. Would love to have him on the Kings though.

kinghock 06-20-2013 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripod (Post 67744235)
And what if the offer for Read and the pick is the best offer? And then what if Bernier DOES come out and demand a trade and refuses to re-sign with LA. What then? Then the OS becomes a possibility...one with a 3 million dollar cost for a back-up. Does that make sense? Or what if LA tries to wait then the other teams look elsewhere. Between now a July 5th, there are lots of options. After July 5th, with UFA's on the market, the options will deminish.

I counted 3 “what if” in your response. I prefer to deal with facts and only time will tell who was correct.

PWJunior 06-20-2013 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimMak (Post 67743971)
The Kings could afford Bernier for roughly 3M for one more year, but it's clearly not an ideal situation. The Kings also have more FA's to sign next summer so that's why the Kings would want cheaper players.

No, if I remember correctly... you and others were adamant that Lombardi would match a 2nd round compensation offer sheet NO MATTER WHAT, salary cap be damned. Now it's a different tune. I'm having a hard time following the inconsistency of arguments in this whole Bernier thread saga. So which is it? Will Lombardi definitely match or not? It seemed like yesterday that the salary cap was of little consideration and that Bernier's on ice ability was the sole reason why he warranted a high return. Today, the salary cap seems to be center stage when discussing the possible returns for Bernier.

Crowne Royale 06-20-2013 01:23 PM

There should be a requirement for the boards that one must be able to communicate at a 5th grade level; if you can't spell the names of your star players, it's not likely you can reason your way through a trade. Waiting for the next mention of NYI's offer of a 1st, a 3rd, and Kirill Kabanov...

Anyways, when you analyze the goalie market, I think it's pretty easy to see that Bernier's the best choice. Of the prospect goalies, he's the most refined (Raanta, Khudobin), a Cup winner, an 11th overall pick, and groomed in a good organizational culture with Ranford overseeing his development. He's got really good stats with irregular playing time, so they're likely to get better with more playing time, all things equal.

Overall, he's cheaper than the big-name free agents like Smith and Backstrom. With Smith, there's the risk of him returning to his Tampa performance, and being stuck with Bryzgalov 2.0. Backstrom is on the downside of his career, and is likely going back to Minnesota, plus he's hurt 25% of the time. Nabokov is nothing more than a short-term stopgap, same with Vokoun.

On the trade market, you've got Ryan "Loose Lips" Miller who's also in the decline and expensive. On top of that, Ward might be available, but he's no better than Miller at this stage in his career. I'm not even going to propose Luongo as a viable option due to his contract, the fact the Vancouver didn't move him when they had the chance, and that people generally dislike the Canucks and other GMs are probably getting a kick out of Gillis looking like a complete tool.

Then you've got the possibility of Bryzgalov hitting the market, but that would require an organization taking a risk in terms of distraction and culture influence; I'd think it would have to be a small-market team.

So, when you consider the options on the market, Bernier is the only option that's cheap (big concern with the cap coming down), proven he can handle the load, entering his prime, and will thrive in a new role with a new team. Or, at least, that's the projection.

Then, when you look at the teams who have goaltending issues:

-Colorado (Varlamov has mostly been a bust)
-Calgary (Kipper to retire?)
-Minnesota (Backstrom to come back?)
-Edmonton (Dubnyk is eeeeeehhhhhh)
-Phoenix (big hole if Smith leaves)
-Philadelphia (to buy-out or not to buy-out)
-New Jersey (heir apparent to Brodeur?)
-New York Islanders (Bernier will be better than present day Nabokov)
-Pittsburgh (shudders at the thought of Fleury)
-Florida (sounds like there are doubts about Markstrom)
-Tampa Bay (hey, Bernier, you could be the next contestant on goalie roulette!)
-Montreal (they love the Frenchies, and Carey Price can't leave the house)
-Toronto (Leiweke has first-hand experience with Bernier and Reimer is hit or miss)
-Buffalo (Miller on the move, less likely now that Enroth has re-upped)
-Carolina (Ward to be traded?)

That's like half the teams in the league, so it's not hard to see the at least 5 of them have zeroed in on Bernier during the auction. Getting a return like Couturier seems completely reasonable to me. For all of Bernier's "unproven" detractors, you're talking about a rushed prospect that had a 15 point, -8 season, yet I don't hear "unproven" constantly attached to his name...

YP44 06-20-2013 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinghock (Post 67744509)
I counted 3 “what if” in your response. I prefer to deal with facts and only time will tell who was correct.

Fact Read makes only 900K this year which is the main problem year cap wise. The next year we will not be as tight against it.

six sigma 06-20-2013 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowne Royale (Post 67744741)
Getting a return like Couturier seems completely reasonable to me. For all of Bernier's "unproven" detractors, you're talking about a rushed prospect that had a 15 point, -8 season, yet I don't hear "unproven" constantly attached to his name...

Might be because he's 20, not 24.

A fair explanation for Couturier's production this (shortened) season has already been stated repeatedly by Flyers fans.

boredmale 06-20-2013 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowne Royale (Post 67744741)
Anyways, when you analyze the goalie market.......

When I look at the nominees for the Vezina this year I see

1) 2 undrafted guys
2) 7th rounder
3) one that was signed as a UFA
2) the other that was traded for a couple 2nd rounders

kinghock 06-20-2013 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perro (Post 67745017)
Fact Read makes only 900K this year which is the main problem year cap wise. The next year we will not be as tight against it.

Do you remember we will need to resign Brown and Greene next year?


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