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-   -   Speculation: Off-Season Roster Build, Part Ad Nauseum (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1451435)

Chainshot 06-22-2013 10:20 AM

Off-Season Roster Build, Part Ad Nauseum
 
Continue here from here.

Still warm to the idea of grazing at the Wild's buffet since they want a goaltender -- hey, look, the Sabres have one they seem to be about to deal! -- and have some parts they might be willing to offer up in trade that would at least make the Sabres visually entertaining at times -- hey, look hit machine Pascal Clutterbuck! -- as cap adjustments.

Holding part of Miller's salary and bringing back RFA Clutterbuck? Something to consider.

Sabresfansince1980 06-22-2013 10:35 AM

Like the idea of acquiring Read, I'm not sure about a 3rd line RW. Buffalo seems to have an abundance of those, but it would be comical to see Ott move to LW with Clutterbuck at RW.

Edit - nah...make it Foligno-Ott-Clutterbuck...finish 29th but sell out every home game.

Sabretip 06-22-2013 10:37 AM

FWIW, another report of Stafford to Edmonton:

Quote:

This just in from Jim Matheson, Hockey Hall of Fame hockey reporter of the Edmonton Journal, on Twitter: “Very quiet on Oil trade front. I still think they will try and deal for BUFF winger Drew Stafford.”
Quote:

With the Oilers trying to move Ales Hemsky, might the Sabres be tempted as well? This is just me speculating, but having moved Jason Pominville, Buffalo could use a top right winger such as Hemsky, especially on the power play.
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...drew-stafford/

Personally, I don't see Regier wanting Hemsky either unless he does remove Stafford and Vanek from the roster this summer and thinks Hemsky would be a short-term fill-in for some offensive production off the wing (despite Hemsky's decline and reputation as a perimeter player). The more likely and realistic target I see Regier wanting if MacTavish calls on Stafford would be Paajarvi, IMO - a younger two-way winger that might pair well with Armia and is young enough to fit into the future core of Grigorenko, Hodgson, Armia, Girgensons, Larsson, Pysyk and Myers.

Sabresfansince1980 06-22-2013 10:42 AM

I think Matheson needed a boost and went back to the old stand-by "Stafford to Edm". And I don't want Paajarvi until I know how to pronounce his name.

Sabretip 06-22-2013 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chainshot (Post 67813519)
Still warm to the idea of grazing at the Wild's buffet since they want a goaltender -- hey, look, the Sabres have one they seem to be about to deal! -- and have some parts they might be willing to offer up in trade that would at least make the Sabres visually entertaining at times -- hey, look hit machine Pascal Clutterbuck! -- as cap adjustments.

Holding part of Miller's salary and bringing back RFA Clutterbuck? Something to consider.

I know there's this growing sentiment about hoping that, if the Sabres are going to lack in talent and scoring/defending ability this coming season, they'll at least be a bunch of bangers and grinders that play physically and make games entertaining on that level but to trade Miller for Clutterbuck - a player the Sabres already have 4 comparables in Kaleta, Ott, Foligno and Girgensons - and absorb some of Miller's salary in the process seems like a garage sale just to get rid of Miller. The debate on what Miller's actual market value is a wide-ranging one but that kind of exchange is akin to giving Miller away IMO - and I doubt Regier will ever be so desperate to make such a trade when he has so few marketable assets to trade anyway beyond Myers, Vanek and Miller.

If Minnesota does want Miller - and Pominville's presence combined with the Wild's uncertain goaltending situation - I can see Clutterbuck being a piece but not the primary one going to Buffalo. I'd expect Regier to ask for one of the Wild's top prospects as the primary piece coming back if he's going to agree to trade Miller.

Sabretip 06-22-2013 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 (Post 67814003)
I think Matheson needed a boost and went back to the old stand-by "Stafford to Edm". And I don't want Paajarvi until I know how to pronounce his name.

pie-ARE-vee

http://www.thenameengine.com/name.as...ajarvi&cat=129

La Cosa Nostra 06-22-2013 11:01 AM

If Clutterbuck was such an essential piece to a good team why would Minnesota trade him? A lot of Wild fans over the past couple years have wanted to get rid of him. Trading a top 10 goalie regardless of his age or term for a 3rd line grinder is a bad move period.I think this year easily debunked the myth that many believed around here that "more hitting = more wins". What we need to make the team better is to bring in several big, tough players to fill the whole lineup. Just having a group of 4-5 guys doing all the hitting / physical work isn't going to make us better. We need the whole team to buy into that mantra and not just rely on Foligno, Ott, Weber and Clutterbuck to do all the hitting while the rest of the team keeps on trying to avoid contact.

CaptPantalones 06-22-2013 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabretip (Post 67813901)
FWIW, another report of Stafford to Edmonton:





http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...drew-stafford/

Personally, I don't see Regier wanting Hemsky either unless he does remove Stafford and Vanek from the roster this summer and thinks Hemsky would be a short-term fill-in for some offensive production off the wing (despite Hemsky's decline and reputation as a perimeter player). The more likely and realistic target I see Regier wanting if MacTavish calls on Stafford would be Paajarvi, IMO - a younger two-way winger that might pair well with Armia and is young enough to fit into the future core of Grigorenko, Hodgson, Armia, Girgensons, Larsson, Pysyk and Myers.

If this was to happen, im with you that Buffalo will assuredly go for a Lander or MPS. Hemsky doesnt make sense due to age and contract

Sabresfansince1980 06-22-2013 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabretip (Post 67814355)

Awesome!! 2014 and 2015 1st rd picks for him now!

Rasmus Reichel 06-22-2013 11:34 AM

I'd be fine with stafford for hemsky, lateral move but we get hemsky off the books after next year and rid ourselves of stafford

joshjull 06-22-2013 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 (Post 67813861)
Like the idea of acquiring Read, I'm not sure about a 3rd line RW. Buffalo seems to have an abundance of those, but it would be comical to see Ott move to LW with Clutterbuck at RW.

Edit - nah...make it Foligno-Ott-Clutterbuck...finish 29th but sell out every home game.

Just a FYI, Ott is a LW. So he wouldn't have to move there. Not sure if you thought he was a RW.

Zip15 06-22-2013 11:39 AM

Hemsky for Stafford is dumb on multiple levels. Pass.

Sabresfansince1980 06-22-2013 11:39 AM

I know, but with Vanek, Leino, Ennis, Foligno, etc...

Zip15 06-22-2013 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layne Staley (Post 67814427)
If Clutterbuck was such an essential piece to a good team why would Minnesota trade him? A lot of Wild fans over the past couple years have wanted to get rid of him. Trading a top 10 goalie regardless of his age or term for a 3rd line grinder is a bad move period.I think this year easily debunked the myth that many believed around here that "more hitting = more wins". What we need to make the team better is to bring in several big, tough players to fill the whole lineup. Just having a group of 4-5 guys doing all the hitting / physical work isn't going to make us better. We need the whole team to buy into that mantra and not just rely on Foligno, Ott, Weber and Clutterbuck to do all the hitting while the rest of the team keeps on trying to avoid contact.

To that end, effort was not an issue last year, talent was. Yet how often did we see posters talking about how last year's version of the Sabres was their most hated iteration in the organization's history? Many. Couple that with the default presumption in that region of "if we lost, it's simply because we didn't try/work hard enough," and there's going to be a lot of misplaced complaints about lack of effort, and people will not be "entertained" as the losses pile up.

Beerz 06-22-2013 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 67815419)
To that end, effort was not an issue last year, talent was. Yet how often did we see posters talking about how last year's version of the Sabres was their most hated iteration in the organization's history? Many. Couple that with the default presumption in that region of "if we lost, it's simply because we didn't try/work hard enough," and there's going to be a lot of misplaced complaints about lack of effort, and people will not be "entertained" as the losses pile up.

suffering... im fine with that for a 2 or 3 year period. Stockpile the talent in AHL until we're ready then balance out the lineup with pure talent and grinders.

gallagt01 06-22-2013 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 67815419)
To that end, effort was not an issue last year, talent was. Yet how often did we see posters talking about how last year's version of the Sabres was their most hated iteration in the organization's history? Many. Couple that with the default presumption in that region of "if we lost, it's simply because we didn't try/work hard enough," and there's going to be a lot of misplaced complaints about lack of effort, and people will not be "entertained" as the losses pile up.

Agreed entirely.

The 12-13 Sabres were a hard-working bunch that lacked in speed and talent.

It's a reason I'll continue to be a Lindholm advocate now that the Mackinnon pipe dreams have been put to rest.


As for Miller/Read, I still think it'd be a smart move on Regier's part. He's a quality defensive forward that can spot in the top 6 while some prospects develop.

Ask for 12, too?

Djp 06-22-2013 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallagt01 (Post 67815637)
Agreed entirely.

The 12-13 Sabres were a hard-working bunch that lacked in speed and talent.

It's a reason I'll continue to be a Lindholm advocate now that the Mackinnon pipe dreams have been put to rest.


As for Miller/Read, I still think it'd be a smart move on Regier's part. He's a quality defensive forward that can spot in the top 6 while some prospects develop.

Ask for 12, too?


Buffalo could move 16 for 11 as part of deal sending Miller to the Flyers.

Paxon 06-22-2013 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallagt01 (Post 67815637)
Agreed entirely.

The 12-13 Sabres were a hard-working bunch that lacked in speed and talent.

It's a reason I'll continue to be a Lindholm advocate now that the Mackinnon pipe dreams have been put to rest.


As for Miller/Read, I still think it'd be a smart move on Regier's part. He's a quality defensive forward that can spot in the top 6 while some prospects develop.

Ask for 12, too?

I like Matt Read, but considering Miller likely won't get a great return, I'd prefer that return be concentrated at least on some level in a boom/bust factor, such as the highest draft pick possible or a prospect. If Matt Read's what we get, so be it, but you could also wait until the deadline when teams are more desperate and his salary isn't a hindrance.

Chainshot 06-22-2013 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layne Staley (Post 67814427)
If Clutterbuck was such an essential piece to a good team why would Minnesota trade him? A lot of Wild fans over the past couple years have wanted to get rid of him. Trading a top 10 goalie regardless of his age or term for a 3rd line grinder is a bad move period.I think this year easily debunked the myth that many believed around here that "more hitting = more wins". What we need to make the team better is to bring in several big, tough players to fill the whole lineup. Just having a group of 4-5 guys doing all the hitting / physical work isn't going to make us better. We need the whole team to buy into that mantra and not just rely on Foligno, Ott, Weber and Clutterbuck to do all the hitting while the rest of the team keeps on trying to avoid contact.

Minny is looking to shift spending somewhere and his RFA deal may be a bit too expensive for their tastes when they are already up against the cap. To that end, they may move him to get good value in an area they have a stated need -- at this point in net.

Players knocking down the opposition and then getting scored on is more entertaining than players standing around watching the other team score on them. Hitting isn't about "hard work" or any of that old Nolan era bull ****, it's about enjoying seeing the other team get knocked on their *****. I'm not sure how getting another player who makes it uncomfortable for the opposition is an issue when they need more than just one. Relying on just a few players of any ilk is Regier-esque and nothing in my post advocates for JUST a singular move.

Chainshot 06-22-2013 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 67815419)
To that end, effort was not an issue last year, talent was. Yet how often did we see posters talking about how last year's version of the Sabres was their most hated iteration in the organization's history? Many. Couple that with the default presumption in that region of "if we lost, it's simply because we didn't try/work hard enough," and there's going to be a lot of misplaced complaints about lack of effort, and people will not be "entertained" as the losses pile up.

I happen to find physical hockey more entertaining than passive hockey while watching the team I'm rooting for lose. Sue me. Bread and circuses.

La Cosa Nostra 06-22-2013 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 67815419)
To that end, effort was not an issue last year, talent was. Yet how often did we see posters talking about how last year's version of the Sabres was their most hated iteration in the organization's history? Many. Couple that with the default presumption in that region of "if we lost, it's simply because we didn't try/work hard enough," and there's going to be a lot of misplaced complaints about lack of effort, and people will not be "entertained" as the losses pile up.

I think it goes back to last off season with the Roy-Ott trade. People were doing handstands because not only was Roy gone but we acquired a high energy human wrecking ball in return. But as much as Ott is loved around here, he is not a better hockey player then Derek Roy. The team never replaced Roy's experience/production and the team suffered. Darcy failed by not getting another top 6/9 veteran center to help shoulder the load that was left to Hodgson and Ennis after Roy was dealt. I still think a vet 3rd line center is one of if not the biggest need. Our future at center is extremely bright but for the present day, after trading Gaustad and Roy, our centers are extremely young and inexperienced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chainshot (Post 67816071)
Minny is looking to shift spending somewhere and his RFA deal may be a bit too expensive for their tastes when they are already up against the cap. To that end, they may move him to get good value in an area they have a stated need -- at this point in net.

Players knocking down the opposition and then getting scored on is more entertaining than players standing around watching the other team score on them. Hitting isn't about "hard work" or any of that old Nolan era bull ****, it's about enjoying seeing the other team get knocked on their *****. I'm not sure how getting another player who makes it uncomfortable for the opposition is an issue when they need more than just one. Relying on just a few players of any ilk is Regier-esque and nothing in my post advocates for JUST a singular move.

Well if we are purposely trying to be bad then yes I would rather see a physical type team. But I still hold out on the Sabres able to turn it around quickly. With all the conflicting statements by Regier , Black and Pegula we will have to wait for the draft then free agency to see what the teams real plan is.

Djp 06-22-2013 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layne Staley (Post 67814427)
If Clutterbuck was such an essential piece to a good team why would Minnesota trade him? A lot of Wild fans over the past couple years have wanted to get rid of him. Trading a top 10 goalie regardless of his age or term for a 3rd line grinder is a bad move period.

I agree so there would have to be more to the deal like flipping MIN 2014 2nd round pick into their 2014 1st round pick.

Workensons 06-22-2013 01:28 PM

Although it isn't really what I'd like Regier to do, I don't see trading Stafford for Hemsky as a lateral move whatsoever. When healthy, Hemsky is a dangerous offensive threat and a power play wizard. For me, it pretty much boils down to the fact that Stafford sucks and Hemsky does not. I wouldn't have a problem taking on the extra 1.5 mil or so in salary for somebody who can actually score on a consistent basis.

The more I think about it, the more Hemsky becomes a good top 6 stop gap until Armia has proven that he can carry that weight.

Really don't see why many are so quick to write him off. In a full season Hemsky can put up 60-70 points. Who in our current lineup (besides Vanek) is a lock to produce that many points?

Chainshot 06-22-2013 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wearegodawful (Post 67818323)
Although it isn't really what I'd like Regier to do, I don't see trading Stafford for Hemsky as a lateral move whatsoever. When healthy, Hemsky is a dangerous offensive threat and a power play wizard. For me, it pretty much boils down to the fact that Stafford sucks and Hemsky does not. I wouldn't have a problem taking on the extra 1.5 mil or so in salary for somebody who can actually score on a consistent basis.

The more I think about it, the more Hemsky becomes a good top 6 stop gap until Armia has proven that he can carry that weight.

Really don't see why many are so quick to write him off. In a full season Hemsky can put up 60-70 points. Who in our current lineup (besides Vanek) is a lock to produce that many points?

And by the same token, Stafford is a bigger player who while he may not play to his size, can move through players defending him and score in tight -- things the league seem to be once again moving toward. Hemsky would be an odd, odd move.

Hopefully Regier isn't trying to half-ass the rebuild.

gallagt01 06-22-2013 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Paxon (Post 67816037)
I like Matt Read, but considering Miller likely won't get a great return, I'd prefer that return be concentrated at least on some level in a boom/bust factor, such as the highest draft pick possible or a prospect. If Matt Read's what we get, so be it, but you could also wait until the deadline when teams are more desperate and his salary isn't a hindrance.

I can't see any teams adding Miller at the deadline.

I'm especially interested in Read if a Vanek trade is indeed imminent. While Read will come nowhere near replicating the offense Vanek provides, he'll, at the very worst, be a nice stopgap while the kids develop (20 goals, quality two-way play).

Nothing wrong with adding a player whose hard-working demeanor and own zone commitment may set an example for younger players.

Miller, 16 for Read, 11?


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