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-   -   Value of: McDonagh and the 1st overall (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1453935)

bernmeister 06-25-2013 05:17 PM

McDonagh and the 1st overall
 
It is looking like McKinnon may be first overall.
But AVs still will need a franchise anchor at LD, since they have some nice guys at RD.

Ryan McDonagh, as to overall defensive game, is superior bordering elite with upside to develop an offensive game.

McD is the perfect fit. AVs have to determine if they keep McK and deal a C, what return, how good a D or 2 can they swing?

Or they can deal him to Rangers, who would gamble on how much of a franchise player Nate can become.

Right now, McD already IS a franchise calibre D.

So I say it's McD for McK w/+s on both sides resulting in a small net add by Colorado.

Thoughts?

And yeah, I'm sure there are a few Col fans who want not 1, but 10 McD for that pick, and yeah, I'm sure there are some Ranger fans who will not deal McD for almost anyone.

That said, please address your opinion of value. What is added to both sides? Who pays more? and why...

NeedleInTheHay 06-25-2013 05:20 PM

If they won't trade the first overall for Letang, they sure aren't going to for McDonagh.

Kershaw 06-25-2013 05:20 PM

I doubt Colorado says yes, MacKinnon is a franchise player, McDonagh is not close to that.

Kelly 06-25-2013 05:20 PM

Mcd + Stepan + 1st rnd pick 2014 rfor Mack + Stastny?

I don't know, that's probably awful. Either way I think NYR needs to add.

wedge 06-25-2013 05:21 PM

so you're saying that Mcdonagh is worth more than a first overall pick.

a little bit too much overating here, no?

Gardner McKay 06-25-2013 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hennig (Post 67988097)
Mcd + Stepan + 1st rnd pick 2014 rfor Mack + Stastny?

I don't know, that's probably awful. Either way I think NYR needs to add.

No. Not even close. Were not adding a thing because we would never do that.

Gardner McKay 06-25-2013 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wedge (Post 67988125)
so you're saying that Mcdonagh is worth more than a first overall pick.

You bet he is and you should also there is not a single Ranger fan who shares his wild & wacky beliefs.

alpine4life 06-25-2013 05:23 PM

Stepan, McD = 1st

Kershaw 06-25-2013 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clowe Me Maybe (Post 67988155)
You bet he is and you should also there is not a single Ranger fan who shares his wild & wacky beliefs.

Look at the past 6 yrs #1 picks:

2007: Kane
2008: Stamkos
2009: Tavares
2010: Hall
2011: RNH
2012: Yakupov

I'd easily take any of those players over McDonagh type, only Rangers fans say no to this IMO.

I do this trade.

alpine4life 06-25-2013 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kershaw (Post 67988265)
Look at the past 6 yrs #1 picks:

2007: Kane
2008: Stamkos
2009: Tavares
2010: Hall
2011: RNH
2012: Yakupov

I'd easily take any of those players over McDonagh type, only Rangers fans say no to this IMO.

I do this trade.

so do I AINEC...

bernmeister 06-25-2013 05:25 PM

The answer to the ? is we MUST look beyond right now and continue to BUILD.

Look at the Hawks. they make that kind of trade. And it pays off with dividends as the developed players add to the club.

We are a good team. But we only have outside chance to win as presently constituted. Must make more moves, more total number and quality of proverbial horses.

RangerGuru 06-25-2013 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpine4life (Post 67988239)
Stepan, McD = 1st

Don't care about the value. We don't know that Mac will contribute right away, and while we wait for him to become a "superstar", Lundqvist could be out of his prime. No thanks to trading our #1C and #1D for a draft pick, no matter how high

bernmeister 06-25-2013 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedleInTheHay (Post 67988053)
If they won't trade the first overall for Letang, they sure aren't going to for McDonagh.

Letang supposedly wants Doughty-esque money at least 7m maybe 8.
Currently has only next season under contract.
Too much to give up.

Also Letang is a great overall D on the strength of his skating = offense.
He is not a great pure D on defensive technique.
He has more than enough to get the job done, and he is helped out by playing for a team that generates a LOT of offense.

But if he had to really play really sharp D, we'd see a different Letang, I'd wager.

bernmeister 06-25-2013 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kershaw (Post 67988069)
I doubt Colorado says yes, MacKinnon is a franchise player, McDonagh is not close to that.

Is he a franchise player like Tavares, give him 3 years or so on a weak team, and he'll develop into a nice 1C, a lower tier top 1C pushing elite C down the road?

Or is he another Stamkos, gonna be elite from the get go?

I think he MAYBE has Stamkos upside, but we are looking at a Tavares type.
If that's the case, McD is more immediately useful.

Of course, if he is Stamkos-esque, without a doubt, then I agree, no team with that pick would trade the pick.

Kelly 06-25-2013 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clowe Me Maybe (Post 67988131)
No. Not even close. Were not adding a thing because we would never do that.

Yeah, I meant in a Mcd for MacKinnon swap rangers would need to add. I agree, the trade I proposed favors Colorado IMO..

I can see Stastny being a good fit for the NYR if Richards is bought out though..

bernmeister 06-25-2013 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wedge (Post 67988125)
so you're saying that Mcdonagh is worth more than a first overall pick.

a little bit too much overating here, no?

IMO, Hedman was a #2 overall, coulda been first.

Hedman has better skating, better shot. Better complete package.
But overall, as to results of D performance, I give it to the excellent McD over the strong Hedman.

So overall on balance
Hedman and McDonagh are both high premium value.

So if McD is close enough to Hedman and Hedman is close enough to a first, what does that tell you?

Obviously, we have years where a GENERATIONAL talent comes up in that slot. McK's stature is not there yet, is it?

So answer to your ?, that's one way I measure it.

Roo Mad Bro 06-25-2013 05:41 PM

#1 pick >>>>> McDonagh.

McDonagh is what he is IMO. I don't see the offensive upside to get better in that department. He should be an elite #2 dman for a long time. A Ryan Suter lite player.

That does not get you the #1 pick.

CobraAcesS 06-25-2013 05:43 PM

No offense to NYR fans, but I don't like the idea of trading the #1 over all for even McD plus.

Mackinnon is too similar to Stamkos, not sure Mack will put up 60 goals a year, but I see it more like 50 goals and a few more assists than Stamkos as Mack's upside.

At this point I hope they retain the pick.

tucker3434 06-25-2013 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernmeister (Post 67987917)
It is looking like McKinnon may be first overall.
But AVs still will need a franchise anchor at LD, since they have some nice guys at RD.

Ryan McDonagh, as to overall defensive game, is superior bordering elite with upside to develop an offensive game.

McD is the perfect fit. AVs have to determine if they keep McK and deal a C, what return, how good a D or 2 can they swing?

Or they can deal him to Rangers, who would gamble on how much of a franchise player Nate can become.

Right now, McD already IS a franchise calibre D.

So I say it's McD for McK w/+s on both sides resulting in a small net add by Colorado.

Thoughts?

And yeah, I'm sure there are a few Col fans who want not 1, but 10 McD for that pick, and yeah, I'm sure there are some Ranger fans who will not deal McD for almost anyone.

That said, please address your opinion of value. What is added to both sides? Who pays more? and why...

I'd like to have McDonagh, but not at the cost of MacKinnon.

bernmeister 06-25-2013 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hennig (Post 67988097)
Mcd + Stepan + 1st rnd pick 2014 rfor Mack + Stastny?

I don't know, that's probably awful. Either way I think NYR needs to add.

Ok, so I'll keep the head count as best I can over the next few days.
You are saying NY needs to add.

If we agree NY would prefer to keep Stepan for combo of reasons, drop him and Stastny off, would that be your bottom?

McD is not enough, but close enough with a future first?

startainfection* 06-25-2013 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernmeister (Post 67989081)
IMO, Hedman was a #2 overall, coulda been first.

Hedman has better skating, better shot. Better complete package.
But overall, as to results of D performance, I give it to the excellent McD over the strong Hedman.

So overall on balance
Hedman and McDonagh are both high premium value.

So if McD is close enough to Hedman and Hedman is close enough to a first, what does that tell you?

Obviously, we have years where a GENERATIONAL talent comes up in that slot. McK's stature is not there yet, is it?

So answer to your ?, that's one way I measure it.

um no he couldn't have

bernmeister 06-25-2013 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpine4life (Post 67988239)
Stepan, McD = 1st

You're saying a whole Stepan has to be added.
Got that in the head count. Thank you.

Jet Set 06-25-2013 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clowe Me Maybe (Post 67988155)
You bet he is and you should also there is not a single Ranger fan who shares his wild & wacky beliefs.

Take a look at the last 6+ years worth of #1 picks bud.

Like Kershaw said, I'd take any of them over McDonagh in a heartbeat.

bernmeister 06-25-2013 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tucker3434 (Post 67989247)
I'd like to have McDonagh, but not at the cost of MacKinnon.

Thanks, noting that to the count.

CobraAcesS 06-25-2013 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernmeister (Post 67989417)
You're saying a whole Stepan has to be added.
Got that in the head count. Thank you.

With our center depth I'm not sure Stepan is enough regardless of value.

Our two major needs are a top line winger and a top pairing defender. If you somehow met both, yeah I'd say McD + gets it done.

Stepan isn't an upgrade on O'Reilly for the Avs either, so we end up in the same boat up front pretty much. So with that said, I'd rather have Duchene & Mack as our two centers for the next 15 years.

O'Reilly can gets us a quality young defender at the deadline or next off-season. Nothing being thrown out here screams 'Can't say no' more so due to needs than value though.

Edit : Also, I like McD... however I'm not sold on him having much more offensive upside at this point. Which is probably hurting the idea of the trade quite a bit IMO.


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