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Lowetide 09-26-2003 02:38 PM

Consequences
 
I use that word 100 times a day, I swear, with my kids. The Comrie trade will have consequences, for the organization, the player, and maybe the fans too.

For the organization, and Kevin Lowe in particular, this is the second young player the team has been unable to make a smooth transition with, both in terms of contract and the finer aspects of the game (defense, discipline). Poti, Comrie, who's next? I remember a time when the Oilers couldn't draft a gifted player, now they can't keep the ones they've drafted. I think Lowe must also reflect on his public ridicule of Comrie, and others, after the season. Finally, the organization should probably look long and hard before they hand another young man the kind of dollars that they gave Comrie. It certainly had an impact imo.

I wonder too how a kid like Ales Hemsky feels? I mean, does he wonder if this organization is building a winner or just moving the deck chairs around. Is his next contract going to be a problem?

For Mike Comrie, I don't think the consequences will be too harsh. He's a fine young player, but his value isn't established to the point where he'll require a massive overpay from his new club. When he arrives in his new town, he'll have a fresh start.

For the fans, this is becoming something of an annual ritual. Poti's treatment at Skyreach was shameful, and even though I understand the fan frustration, booing the home team is never a good idea. Talked to a guy the other day who basically said "we never booed 20 years ago". Well, yes we did. Paul Coffey was booed in Edmonton, and it came right around the time that Glen Sather was publicly critical.

For me the bottom line is this: it's a pretty irritating thing to have happen from both sides. The Oilers gave their money, their playing time, their best wingers and their faith and coaching to Comrie. On the other hand, Comrie scored at a high level while he was here, and certainly would have to be considered a quality offensive player.

But it is what it is, and they might as well send him down the road sooner than later.

I expect a trade by next Saturday.

MrMackey 09-26-2003 03:03 PM

Great post as always LT.

Personally, I think that the public criticisms of some of his players are a good sign. As long as they are tempered with a show of respect (which I think Lowe does), then it demonstrates to the players that (1) they have to earn the dollars they demand from their employers & the public, and (2) the Oilers are serious about building a contender, and they aren't content with a 8th place showing and 3 home playoff dates.

I agree that there will be consequences to how the Comrie situation is handled. I can't wait too see how it turns out... but at the same time I'm dreading it!

Yanner39 09-26-2003 03:12 PM

I think the problem in this case goes alot deeper than not being able to agree on salary...In the case or Arnott or Poti, yes they held out but they eventually signed whether it's because the team caved or the player caved...I remember when Slats gave Arnott that big contract and said at the press conference that he's wasn't paying Arnott for what he has done, but for what he is expected to do...Arnott at that point didn't deliver...

I think things have changed significantly since Poti and Arnott...Back then, the league wasn't on the verge of a work stoppage and a potentially drastic reshapping of the NHL's economic landscape...I applaud Lowe for doing what he's doing even though I am extremely upset that Comrie may be dealt...

I can see your point with the impact this could have on other players but like I said, the problem is alot deeper than we all think...G2K ran his story a few months ago about dressing room problems with Comrie...Other players see this and they are not stupid...They know when it's the player's fault or the coaches fault...Smyth was criticized during the playoffs and re-signed...

My point is: on-ice performance aside, I really believe Lowe would have been more flexible if Comrie had a better attitude (if he does have an attitude problem to begin with. By all accounts it seems that he does)...Paying Smyth all that $$ probably wasn't Lowe's favorite thing but Smytty's attitude on and off the ice made it a little more bearable and justifyable...

Silver 09-26-2003 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
My point is: on-ice performance aside, I really believe Lowe would have been more flexible if Comrie had a better attitude (if he does have an attitude problem to begin with. By all accounts it seems that he does)...Paying Smyth all that $$ probably wasn't Lowe's favorite thing but Smytty's attitude on and off the ice made it a little more bearable and justifyable...

Also remember that when Comrie had the hammer in his hands, he had no problem beating the Oilers over the head with it. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and he doesn't feel things are fair.

Get over it Mike. Normal people all over the world get criticized every day for their work perfomance, and they show up the next day. I really have trouble feeling sorry for the guy.

If I was Lowe, I'd sit on him the whole year, unless a stupid good trade came along (Chistov would be nice...) I highly doubt we are gunning for the cup this year anyways.

jadeddog 09-26-2003 03:56 PM

couldnt agree more.... when comrie held the upper hand he basically got exactly what he wanted and maybe more with his first contract.... he hit a home run that still hasnt hit the ground with that contract

now when the oilers hold the upper hand and may not need his offense this year (though i still think they will... badly) hes upset?? and hes upset that he gets criticized by the GM?? welcome to LIFE you spoiled baby

i dont want to have to say this at the end of everypost i make but ill say it again.... im a comrie fan, buti just dont like his attitude this summer

momentai 09-26-2003 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadeddog
now when the oilers hold the upper hand and may not need his offense this year (though i still think they will... badly) hes upset?? and hes upset that he gets criticized by the GM?? welcome to LIFE you spoiled baby

Now, I think we're getting a little carried away here. What's so bad about being upset at criticism by the GM? It really is perfectly natural to not be particularly enamored to that sort of thing. It does indeed happen to everyone in the real world but I've found very few people that enjoy hearing it.

Now, this entire situation is getting irritating indeed. Comrie's party and Lowe's party have remained silent for the most part. It's the media and fan reaction that is blowing things abnormally out of proportion and this is not really all that surprising: it is a slow offseason. However, I sort of wish that this entire ordeal was over one way or another.

LT, consequences is a fine word to put on this situation. I have another two... dedication and commitment. We'll see one way or another during this season how those two ideals lie for both Mike and the Oiler management.

Chayos 09-26-2003 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momentai
Now, I think we're getting a little carried away here. What's so bad about being upset at criticism by the GM? It really is perfectly natural to not be particularly enamored to that sort of thing. It does indeed happen to everyone in the real world but I've found very few people that enjoy hearing it.

Now, this entire situation is getting irritating indeed. Comrie's party and Lowe's party have remained silent for the most part. It's the media and fan reaction that is blowing things abnormally out of proportion and this is not really all that surprising: it is a slow offseason. However, I sort of wish that this entire ordeal was over one way or another.

LT, consequences is a fine word to put on this situation. I have another two... dedication and commitment. We'll see one way or another during this season how those two ideals lie for both Mike and the Oiler management.


Gratitute would be another one. i would be on my knees thanking the man who piad me $8.0 million dollars for 3 years of Hockey. No nothing like Great white shark Counter or Tiger gynacolgist or anything, no he was paid $8.0 us funds i might add to play a game and now he has the balls to hold out for more than what would be fair market value. Legwand got 2 years 3.2 and Tanguay got 1.5 million, so comrie should be right there. If Lowe could get either of those deals comrie would bve on the ice, so obviously Comrie is Holding out for signifiantly more than he is worth IMO.

Lowetide 09-26-2003 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chayos1
Gratitute would be another one. i would be on my knees thanking the man who piad me $8.0 million dollars for 3 years of Hockey. No nothing like Great white shark Counter or Tiger gynacolgist or anything, no he was paid $8.0 us funds i might add to play a game and now he has the balls to hold out for more than what would be fair market value. Legwand got 2 years 3.2 and Tanguay got 1.5 million, so comrie should be right there. If Lowe could get either of those deals comrie would bve on the ice, so obviously Comrie is Holding out for signifiantly more than he is worth IMO.


That wasn't really my point, though. We can go on ripping Comrie till the cows come home, but he's gone. My question is with regard to Hemsky and the next impact type player. Are the Oilers a team that can only retain the plumbers?

Or is this, like Poti, a "unique" situation. If it is, we must lead the league in that category.

momentai 09-26-2003 04:35 PM

Sure, I wholly agree that Comrie took Lowe to the bank on his first contract.... But are we so very sure that Comrie wouldn't have gotten that or more signing as an UFA for another team? I don't think we'll ever know.

That bonus structure was indeed high but Comrie did earn it by the letter of his contract.

I'm not particularly enamored with Comrie's holding out considering the comparables that have signed recently or in the past... So I can only think of a few possible reasons to why?

1) Comrie and Rich Winter themselves believe they are worth 2 million or more in base salary next season. (which I find a little more than ludicrous)

2) Lowe is playing hardball... and wants a multi-year contract extending past Comrie's arbitration date... for less than market value.

3) Comrie does not want to play here in Edmonton whether due to hometown pressure, or differences in opinion with management.

Who knows which it is? Perhaps a combination of a few of them? Boy, I really do wish this was over already. I can only see so many Comrie proposals a day. A guy has his limits, you know?

Silver 09-26-2003 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowetide
That wasn't really my point, though. We can go on ripping Comrie till the cows come home, but he's gone. My question is with regard to Hemsky and the next impact type player. Are the Oilers a team that can only retain the plumbers?

Or is this, like Poti, a "unique" situation. If it is, we must lead the league in that category.

I think it is much like the Poti situation, although maybe not as bad. The sheer arrogance of holding out after a bad season isn't something that fans take lightly.

If this was Tampa Bay, or Anaheim, you'd get away with it. Edmonton....eh, different story.

elphy101 09-26-2003 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowetide
For me the bottom line is this: it's a pretty irritating thing to have happen from both sides. The Oilers gave their money, their playing time, their best wingers and their faith and coaching to Comrie. On the other hand, Comrie scored at a high level while he was here, and certainly would have to be considered a quality offensive player.

But it is what it is, and they might as well send him down the road sooner than later.

I expect a trade by next Saturday.

I agree with everything but the last statement. I don't think Comrie is going anywhere. I don't think Lowe will deal Comrie. My guess is that Comrie will sit this entire season. We have enough NHL talent on this team. We don't need another player to fill Comrie's roster spot. Comrie's holdout just frees up a spot for Rita or Stoll. Comrie is one of the best players on the Oilers but I believe they will still make the playoffs without him. Would they be better with him in the lineup? Of course. Lowe holds all the chips and I really don't see Comrie getting traded anytime soon unless Lowe gets a deal he would have taken before Comrie's holdout.

Mr Sakich 09-26-2003 05:34 PM

I was thinking today about the 3 day cooling off period lowe had after game 6 last year. He was truly pissed at something and I am now starting to think that the "something" was comrie. Lowe would play the game at his highest level even if he had a broken rib (he did once, the oiler trainer ken lowe once said kevin had the highest pain threshold he had ever seen). Comrie did not exert himself in the playoffs. Whatever his strengths or weaknesses, Lowe will never forgive that.

A story for the younger people here. Early 80's, oilers vs islanders in the finals in new york. The oilers are a much better team but they lose. After the penultumate game, the oilers are hanging around and they happen to walk by the islander dressing room. Every key guy is in there barely able to walk. The oilers are in perfect health and feeling fine. Gretzky looks to lowe and says "that is the difference, skill is ok but guts win" (paraphrased)

I am guessing that lowe knows what he wants and comrie isn't it. Your best player has to be your best player when it counts. That is why he drafted stoll and traded for torres. That is why he dumped dopita so quick. That is why york is an oiler and poti isn't. That is why he draft he pouliot who played hard for the worst team in the chl.

jadeddog 09-26-2003 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momentai
Now, I think we're getting a little carried away here. What's so bad about being upset at criticism by the GM? It really is perfectly natural to not be particularly enamored to that sort of thing. It does indeed happen to everyone in the real world but I've found very few people that enjoy hearing it.

Now, this entire situation is getting irritating indeed. Comrie's party and Lowe's party have remained silent for the most part. It's the media and fan reaction that is blowing things abnormally out of proportion and this is not really all that surprising: it is a slow offseason. However, I sort of wish that this entire ordeal was over one way or another.

LT, consequences is a fine word to put on this situation. I have another two... dedication and commitment. We'll see one way or another during this season how those two ideals lie for both Mike and the Oiler management.

im not trying to start a flame war here.... BUT, lol

you cant really be serious?? people get criticized everyday of their lives and deal with it and show up for work the next day. if i got criticized at work and the next day i came in and said "ok, i didnt like what you had to say yesterday but ill forgive you and stay with the company... but you have to pay me more money." do you really think i would have a job still?? i think not. people seem to think that because these guys are professional athletes that we shouldnt hold them up to very high standards..... that we should accept the fact that they are whiney and egotistical. when the hell did that happen? i thought we should expect high profile people to act like men, show some morals. am i wrong to expect these basic premises of integrity in the athletes that make their money from my paycheck?

momentai 09-26-2003 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadeddog
im not trying to start a flame war here.... BUT, lol

you cant really be serious?? people get criticized everyday of their lives and deal with it and show up for work the next day. if i got criticized at work and the next day i came in and said "ok, i didnt like what you had to say yesterday but ill forgive you and stay with the company... but you have to pay me more money." do you really think i would have a job still?? i think not.

Um.. I really think you missed my point. My point had nothing to do with Comrie wanting any type of salary amount. Personally, I have been a major advocator of Comrie not getting anything close to 2 million for about 3 months now...

My point was in addressment of this statement of yours...
Quote:

Originally Posted by jadeddog
and hes upset that he gets criticized by the GM?? welcome to LIFE you spoiled baby

Why should it be a fault of his that he is upset over criticisms? I think what's more important is how he works to either dispel/encourage those same criticisms. You are calling him a spoiled baby because he's upset at criticisms? That just isn't fair because there must be a lot of "spoiled babies" out there in the world.

Bohologo 09-27-2003 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowetide
The Comrie trade will have consequences, for the organization, the player, and maybe the fans too.

Agreed. But not necessarily dire consequences. Perhaps Lowe is tightening up the ship to a model more like the one seen in New Jersey, where it's notoriously One Way or The Highway.

Jersey GM Lou L. has shipped any number of players who think they're bigger than the crest on the jersey: Arnott, Sykora, Guerin, et al, and this policy hasn't hurt the Devils' competitiveness. (Not to mention surviving the losses of Mogilny, Danton, and Holik.) If anything, it has reinforced that their club will do anything to win. It's a good trait to be more attached to winning, and less attached to any one style or player.

We need guys on the ice who fit the culture of the Oilers organization, and that's up to Lowe to determine, not a kid who's never won anything at this level.

Yosemite Sam 09-27-2003 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momentai
Why should it be a fault of his that he is upset over criticisms? I think what's more important is how he works to either dispel/encourage those same criticisms. You are calling him a spoiled baby because he's upset at criticisms? That just isn't fair because there must be a lot of "spoiled babies" out there in the world.

Sure he has the right to be upset over criticism. He's only human. But I think Jadded's point was that he needs to get over it.

Oh well. It doesn't matter anymore.

gamblor 09-27-2003 07:42 AM

Kevin Lowe has handled the Marchant and Comrie situations brutally. My impression is that he takes contract negotiations way too personally, when it should be just business as usual. (His comment about "Dont' compare me to Comrie, I won five Stanley Cups!!" being especially idiotic). I mean, it's good to be passionate about things, but not at the expense of the team.

At least Glen Sather was willing to stay loyal to his players, and he never burned any bridges with guys who were traded, which is why so many ex-Oilers returned to the organization in spite of testy negotiations in the past(e.g. Lowe!).

Shibumi 09-27-2003 07:51 AM

I hope that Kevin Lowe publicly offers around the 1.5 million mark for one year. Then if Mike spurns it, let him sit on his ass for the entire year. Repeat process until Mike understands.

Unfortunately that won't happen as the Oil would deal him long before the end of the season. It would be nice though to see a stubborn player made an example of and have to miss a couple of years in the NHL. If the figures can be trusted, the league lost as a whole 300 million last year. This situation with Mike is part of the problem IMHO because at some point either the Oilers will bend or the team that gets Mike in a trade will overpay him. When was the last time there was a player out there that the fans seriously thought was underpaid...to the point of being p'od at management for? Sooner or later the pendulum has to swing back the other way or else those that want to watch an NHL game live will have to travel to the USA or Toronto to do so.

oilers_guy_eddie 09-27-2003 07:51 AM

I wonder if agents might be more willing to butt heads with Lowe, possibly with hopes of getting their client traded to more lucrative pastures?

ZIM 09-27-2003 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bohologo
Agreed. But not necessarily dire consequences. Perhaps Lowe is tightening up the ship to a model more like the one seen in New Jersey, where it's notoriously One Way or The Highway.

Jersey GM Lou L. has shipped any number of players who think they're bigger than the crest on the jersey: Arnott, Sykora, Guerin, et al, and this policy hasn't hurt the Devils' competitiveness. (Not to mention surviving the losses of Mogilny, Danton, and Holik.) If anything, it has reinforced that their club will do anything to win. It's a good trait to be more attached to winning, and less attached to any one style or player.

We need guys on the ice who fit the culture of the Oilers organization, and that's up to Lowe to determine, not a kid who's never won anything at this level.

The New Jersey model is T R A P (rhymes with?). Minnesota plays the same way and as everyone knows who goes to those games it's B O R I N G. From the fans perspective hockey is supposed to be entertaining.

theoil 09-27-2003 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor dyck
I was thinking today about the 3 day cooling off period lowe had after game 6 last year. He was truly pissed at something and I am now starting to think that the "something" was comrie. Lowe would play the game at his highest level even if he had a broken rib (he did once, the oiler trainer ken lowe once said kevin had the highest pain threshold he had ever seen). Comrie did not exert himself in the playoffs. Whatever his strengths or weaknesses, Lowe will never forgive that.

A story for the younger people here. Early 80's, oilers vs islanders in the finals in new york. The oilers are a much better team but they lose. After the penultumate game, the oilers are hanging around and they happen to walk by the islander dressing room. Every key guy is in there barely able to walk. The oilers are in perfect health and feeling fine. Gretzky looks to lowe and says "that is the difference, skill is ok but guts win" (paraphrased)

I am guessing that lowe knows what he wants and comrie isn't it. Your best player has to be your best player when it counts. That is why he drafted stoll and traded for torres. That is why he dumped dopita so quick. That is why york is an oiler and poti isn't. That is why he draft he pouliot who played hard for the worst team in the chl.

That is imo also why he traded Carter, Hamrlik, Weight, Guerin without huge regret. Not just guts but attitude. Carter & Hamerlik (sp) wouldn't do whatever had to be done Weight was dominant or invisible and Guerin nothing but trouble in the dressing room. The problem for me is whether or not this team can afford players with the skill and all the other attributes that it takes to win. Hard work and talent will beat hard work every time even though hard work will beat talent half the time. (Even the Flames win some games:D. I agree with you though that for whatever reason Lowe has decided that Comrie is more trouble than he is worth and I agree with whoever it was that compared his style to NJ. That is the type of team Lowe is trying to build.


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