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Buffalo716Sabres 06-30-2013 12:40 AM

Flat Bottom V question
 
Thinking about going to the Flat Bottom V... what does everyone think about it? Maybe some testimonials. Some of my teammates went to it and their skates has really improved... Also I skate on a 5/8" now... but someone was telling me to skate on a 100/50 (1/2") in FBV because it gives you the benefits of a 1/2" with edge control but you will have the same speed as a 5/8"... I'm kind of "old fashioned" but open to new things... maybe someone can sway me one way or the other... CHEERS!:yo:

will13 06-30-2013 02:00 AM

I find it helps your agility and helps you glide longer. Started using it last year in midget. Costs a bit extra to get done but I think its worth it

SpringfieldSkins 06-30-2013 02:47 AM

I use it, like it.

Stopping takes a little time to get used to because of the sharper edge but it's not a problem. I've been using FBV for so long now that if be afraid to go back to a regular hollow.

Noir 06-30-2013 06:54 AM

I've been wondering about this too.

If flatbottom V was so awesome, how come it's not more prevalent and replacing the old ways as the new standard for sharpening skates?

Also,

How common is this in the NHL? If it truly is as great as they make this sound to be, I'm assuming everyone in the NHL would be rocking Flatbottom V's making it the standard practice for skate maintenance for the sport no?

Lonny Bohonos 06-30-2013 07:23 AM

All i know is they make the rockin' world go 'round.

Pcmm 06-30-2013 10:56 AM

Where I am there is no price difference between FBV and traditional cut so I tried the 100/50. And really liked it. Better edge control and easier gliding... I won't be going back to a traditional cut any time soon.

Buffalo716Sabres 06-30-2013 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noir (Post 68246871)
I've been wondering about this too.

If flatbottom V was so awesome, how come it's not more prevalent and replacing the old ways as the new standard for sharpening skates?

Also,

How common is this in the NHL? If it truly is as great as they make this sound to be, I'm assuming everyone in the NHL would be rocking Flatbottom V's making it the standard practice for skate maintenance for the sport no?

You pretty much read my mind... I work at a pro shop (for 6 months now)... and I've only had MAYBE 3 people ask for a FBV sharpen.. if it were that good I would think more people would want it.

Buffalo716Sabres 06-30-2013 01:17 PM

ha
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos (Post 68247181)
All i know is they make the rockin' world go 'round.

Very Nice!

Buffalo716Sabres 06-30-2013 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pcmm (Post 68253413)
Where I am there is no price difference between FBV and traditional cut so I tried the 100/50. And really liked it. Better edge control and easier gliding... I won't be going back to a traditional cut any time soon.

what did you skate on before the 100/50? a 1/2"? do you feel any faster?

kr580 06-30-2013 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noir (Post 68246871)
If flatbottom V was so awesome, how come it's not more prevalent and replacing the old ways as the new standard for sharpening skates?

I would think the cost of a new FBV machine is a problem for some shops with the lack of people asking for FBV. Think about how confusing all the numbers are. People that are lazy and don't do the research (the large majority of people) won't know what the heck they're getting and will just stick to the familiar ROH cuts. The marketing kinda sucked for FBV. They got the FBV name out there but didn't really explain anything about it. It took me FOREVER to find someone who explained what the numbers actually signified. I had to dig to get that info, not many people will bother.

As for NHL'ers, I'm assuming habit keeps them with ROH. They're notoriously superstitious about every little thing. Who knows.

Sojourn 06-30-2013 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kr580 (Post 68352227)
I would think the cost of a new FBV machine is a problem for some shops with the lack of people asking for FBV. Think about how confusing all the numbers are. People that are lazy and don't do the research (the large majority of people) won't know what the heck they're getting and will just stick to the familiar ROH cuts. The marketing kinda sucked for FBV. They got the FBV name out there but didn't really explain anything about it. It took me FOREVER to find someone who explained what the numbers actually signified. I had to dig to get that info, not many people will bother.

As for NHL'ers, I'm assuming habit keeps them with ROH. They're notoriously superstitious about every little thing. Who knows.

NHL players also try to get every edge in performance they can get.

Wilch 06-30-2013 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noir (Post 68246871)
I've been wondering about this too.

If flatbottom V was so awesome, how come it's not more prevalent and replacing the old ways as the new standard for sharpening skates?

Also,

How common is this in the NHL? If it truly is as great as they make this sound to be, I'm assuming everyone in the NHL would be rocking Flatbottom V's making it the standard practice for skate maintenance for the sport no?

The cost of replacing machines.

No point spending a few grand or even dropping five digits to buy a new machine when you can't charge significantly more for a FBV sharpening.

Heard the sharpening method is different too. While trivial, it is an issue as well.

I personally love FBV sharpening, but can live with ROH. I won't spend the extra 10-15 minutes to drive down to a place that offers FBV sharpening. While the difference is noticeable, having a ROH sharpening won't hinder my ability as a bottom tier beer leaguer.

Pcmm 06-30-2013 11:29 PM

If you beleive the media 20 NHL teams now have players skating fbv! But for the rest of us, it comes down to te cost of the machine. There's little incentive for te local rink to spend 10k on a new machine when most people haven't and aren't asking about fbv!

Noir 07-01-2013 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilch (Post 68388607)
The cost of replacing machines.

No point spending a few grand or even dropping five digits to buy a new machine when you can't charge significantly more for a FBV sharpening.

Heard the sharpening method is different too. While trivial, it is an issue as well.

I personally love FBV sharpening, but can live with ROH. I won't spend the extra 10-15 minutes to drive down to a place that offers FBV sharpening. While the difference is noticeable, having a ROH sharpening won't hinder my ability as a bottom tier beer leaguer.


Can't buy that fully.


Remember back then when flat screen (LCD/Plasma) screens where $10,000 a pop, and now that they've been standardized, they're practically between $500 - $1,000.

Yes I understand that the initial cost of transition from one tech to another will be significant; but I've always thought "true progress" inevitably always replaces outdated and obsolete tech/practices. And once progressive methods have become standardized, then cost-wise they begin to fall within reason shouldn't they?



Seriously, I thought if something truly was good, the market will have a convincing demand for it. For example, look at composite sticks now replacing wooden sticks. I thought the price of $200 - $300 would be so niche and so small that this market wouldn't dominate. I'm wrong. In fact, so wrong that I'm noticing composite sticks are now the norm over wood; despite the cost.

Buffalo716Sabres 07-01-2013 08:53 AM

skated
 
So I skated on a FBV... the 90/75 I thik (their equivalent to 5/8")... I wasn't really all that happy with it. As far as energy, I'll give them this... it takes almost zero energy to get up to full speed and you're able to glide longer at a higher speed. I was able to really hit those edges on turns and transitions... But the thing I didn't like was stopping. In all honestly... it felt like I was on a 3/4" speed and energy wise.... but a 7/16" when it came to agility (mostly stops). My first stop for instance I skipped a bit on the ice. I think I'll probably go back to a standard sharpen and wait until our pro shop (where I work) gets somthing with a little less bite like the 90/50... Anyone that tries it just be aware that since the edges are more aggressive that your stops will be a bit harsh.

Wilch 07-01-2013 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noir (Post 68401923)
Can't buy that fully.


Remember back then when flat screen (LCD/Plasma) screens where $10,000 a pop, and now that they've been standardized, they're practically between $500 - $1,000.

Yes I understand that the initial cost of transition from one tech to another will be significant; but I've always thought "true progress" inevitably always replaces outdated and obsolete tech/practices. And once progressive methods have become standardized, then cost-wise they begin to fall within reason shouldn't they?



Seriously, I thought if something truly was good, the market will have a convincing demand for it. For example, look at composite sticks now replacing wooden sticks. I thought the price of $200 - $300 would be so niche and so small that this market wouldn't dominate. I'm wrong. In fact, so wrong that I'm noticing composite sticks are now the norm over wood; despite the cost.

That's why you'll see Blackstone sharpeners in the bigger shops, but not at the local rinks and smaller shops. They have the money in the bank to take the temporary hit.

In Vancouver, I'm assuming the only shops that carry FBV sharpening is Sportschek (done that there) and probably the Hockey Shop in Surrey.

Cyclone Taylor don't offer FBV, none of the rinks I've been to in Vancouver offer it either.

Sticks can't really be compared to sharpening because hockey stick is merchandise, in other words, inventory. Buying a new sharpening booth is investing a revenue generating asset.

It doesn't make sense to invest in one when it doesn't generate significantly more revenue or demand.

Small shops won't suddenly see a large surge in new customers after making FBV available, and the price for each sharpening is probably only $1-2 more than a ROH sharpening.

It may become more prevalent later on when the older machines inevitably depreciates, breaks down and needs to be replaced. For now, though, I don't see it becoming a standard.

The Tikkanen 07-01-2013 10:21 AM

The gliding is improved, the edges seem to be more exact and last longer, everything seems more consistent. I won't go back to regular sharpening. I don't think it's caught on because a lot of people don't even know what it is, they don't know what to ask for and rec league players are notoriously cheap/broke so paying more for sharpening cuts into their beer money. The whole FBV industry needs to market themselves better, all the information needs to be clearly posted so players know what to ask for without sounding like a newbie and the benefits need to be pointed out to the stubborn/cheap/superstitious players out there.

Jarick 07-01-2013 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebombers (Post 68242099)
I find it helps your agility and helps you glide longer.

I found this exactly. My edges feel more predictable which give me better control and confidence on turns and the glide is better. Plus I found my sharpening seem to last 2-3 times as long.

JR97 07-01-2013 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos (Post 68247181)
All i know is they make the rockin' world go 'round.

:yo:

intangible 07-02-2013 10:58 AM

Here's my favorite thing about Flat Bottom V:

I'm a bigger guy. Not really fat, but I certainly have problem spots, and I also have a lot of leg muscle. Regardless, I'm about 5'11" and 230 lbs. If I get 1/2" and I take a corner at full speed, I'll blow a tire and all 230 lbs slams into the boards.. it doesn't feel, look, or sound good.

FBV allows me the 3/8" bite that I need for my fast corners while still allowing me to stay upright. In addition, I get the glide I would normally get from 1/2", if not better. It's really the best of both worlds. So I go in and ask for 3/8V, which I believe is 100/75.

I still stick with 1/2" when I play goalie, though.

jsykes 07-02-2013 11:25 AM

I run a shop and to convert a current machine to fbv is fairly reasonable in cost at about $2500. Yes you can go buy a $15k machine, but its not necessary.

We were one of the last in the area to get it (my decision) and we've finally done it because I do not think its a fad and going to go away and its a valid type of sharpening for those that like it.

Will everyone like it? No.

Its simply different. There are benefits to it and those cannot be denied. However, it does provide a different feel and not everyone will like it or feel they get enough benefit to "learn" a new feel.

The reason you dont see it completely taking over the NHL is for the same reason. Most NHLers are creatures of habit and it takes a LOT to get them to change. Look how long it took Crosby to start using a composite stick.

Look at most NHLers skates, they may look like the current product, but often have a lot of custom features underneath that make them more like the skates they've been using the last 10 years.

Additionally, EQMs are also creatures of habit and if they dont have to worry about more different cuts for different players, they're going to try to avoid it. If the team has an EQM that buys into the fbv, then a lot of players will be using it, if they dont, then they wont. Its really that simple.

The NHL is as much about always getting the "latest edge" as you may think. It hard to get them to change and many of them have absolutely no clue about their gear. They dont know what kind of skates they use, what kind of curve they use, what their ROH is.

They get handed stuff, they either like it or they dont, they dont care why and they use what they like without worrying about what it is or why they like it.

Likewise with the sharpening. If an EQM isnt into it, or they try it once and dont like the feel, they just go back to what they're used to. Its pretty simple.

As to fbv for the rest of us. I'd encourage people to try it if they want. I'd say give it a good 3-5 skates to get a feel for it before deciding whether you like it or not. I'd also say try multiple different cuts as well because there is no way to make a direct comparison for ROH to fbv for feel and sharpness. Most of the guys in my shop that have tried it feel like they need to go to a more dull version of fbv compared to what their ROH was to get the same edge feel. So you need to try multiple cuts to see what works for you the best, just using the "equal" to your ROH will not give you a fair test of the cut.

If you still dont like it, go back. For most of us the advantage wont be significant or needed. But you may like it.

Thesensation19 07-02-2013 01:26 PM

Just like it states. I feel like I dont lose the speed I get with my regular 1/2'' cut but I also have more edge than I do with that regular cut of mine. I feel so much more comfortable with the V and now its hard to go back and play w the old cut. Doesnt feel same but i have manage because not every rink has it by me yet

JR97 07-02-2013 05:25 PM

I went with 100/50 from 1/2" about a year and a half ago. I won't go back. Much more glide and bite. The "feel" was different but I got used to it in warm ups my first time out. The main thing I noticed is that I had to lean the edges a little more to get them to bite. This is a good thing because my turning is now a lot sharper because I can trust leaning in that far.

I've had a few bad or wrong sharpens. I'm not sure what profile, but there was one sharpen that was all bite. I couldn't even stop because I'd fly over the handle bars. I was quite a bit faster because I could really dig the edges on my stride, but I never dared open it up because I couldn't stop.

My current sharpen was also bad or wrong. Much more glide and I really need to lean on them to get the edges to bite. Not a bad thing but took a game to get used to.

Wilch 07-02-2013 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos (Post 68247181)
All i know is they make the rockin' world go 'round.

You managed to find a FBV sharpener in Dubai?!

deems 07-03-2013 04:04 AM

Been using FBV for over a year or 2 now. It's like I put on a new skate. Edge control is very noticeable. I don't know about anything else but it helped my weakness and I never looked back. Price is maybe up to $5 over regular depending where you live but I've also seen places that charge the same for both.


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