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-   -   Am I wrong or right (player attitude)? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1457845)

ccarrigan 06-30-2013 03:02 PM

Am I wrong or right (player attitude)?
 
It's the playoffs, we are down by one point in the last 3 minutes and call a timeout. Our captain starts trying to setup the next two lines out and when to pull the goalie, and one of the players on the ice (who doesn't get along with the captain) said "we all pay the same to play, i'm not coming off." He obviously isn't one of our game changer players because if he was, he would have been on the line.

So, is he wrong or right? I told him that it was a crappy move on his part and wasn't very team centered. He didn't seem to care.

Also, we lost.

JohnZ622 06-30-2013 03:08 PM

He's narrow-minded and selfish. Who cares about 3 minutes of ice time in lieu of a critical playoff moment.

scryan 06-30-2013 03:41 PM

Line changes happen in hockey... You don't get to just decide you're now on the next line too.

don28 06-30-2013 06:55 PM

Not a team-friendly move...unless he was sitting for the entire third period. I'm a forward on a B league team, but a third-liner. I didn't play at the end (meaning the last 5 minutes) of our playoff games, even after scoring the game-tying goal in the final playoff game. I didn't care one bit. We won the championship, which is what it's all about. My teammates respect me for my skate and grind efforts, which is what matters.

Ozz 06-30-2013 06:59 PM

I understand his point, but that's not the team attitude to have. The team plays as a team. That happens to everyone. I'm usually a top scorer on our team, but I can recall a time when I wasn't feeling too well and I sat most of the 3rd. I played maybe 2 shifts and on the 2nd one I got called off for the final minute or so. Didn't bother me, I know I wasn't much help at the time.

Tell him if he wants to argue equal ice time he can try a house team :p

snizzbone* 06-30-2013 07:02 PM

Sounds like a complete ****** bag.

kr580 06-30-2013 07:03 PM

If it's beer league it's not cool to cheat someone out of their shift, IMO. I don't get everyone's excitement about playoffs. You're playing the lowest form of ice hockey available to you. Have fun, don't get all serious about something that doesn't even matter. You might get what, one, two games more if you win? Everyone pays the same, they should get equal chance to be out there no matter the situation. What happens when the stacked line doesn't do a thing? You still lost and now you have people on the bench not too happy. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

If they're up for sitting to help out the team, go for it, but not if they have a problem with it.

Then again I don't have that 'drive' that most guys have. I'm out there for exercise, not winning or losing, so I don't really care either way personally.

Hawks82 07-01-2013 03:52 AM

It depends...

Is the player in question new to the game? I'm LTS right now and I can tell already that a lot of the "players" at the rink I go to are very much a clique. I don't want to cast generalizations on people I don't know, but if your rink is anything like mine I could easily see a group of "game changers" not being very nice to someone who isn't quite as good. Maybe the guy feels like he has to fight for his ice time? I think for someone to speak out that way during the playoffs, it's probably something that's built up over time.

It's a shot in the dark, but that's my opinion.

McDugan 07-01-2013 09:47 AM

It sounds like there is probably more to this story. If this guy doesn't get along with the captain, why is that? As has been said before, if he's been in a position of losing ice time to the "game-changers" all season long, maybe he got sick of it.

Ultimately, if it pissed off the rest of the team, then it was a bad move on his part with regard to being a "team player." BUT if it was something he felt he had to do as a matter of principle because he was sick of being sh-t on by the rest of the team, the it's hard to blame him. Neither of these scenarios makes him "right" or "wrong" in an absolute sense.

It sounds like either way, he probably won't be back on that team.

leftwinger37 07-01-2013 10:43 AM

Simply put, it's poor form to put yourself ahead of the team regardless of the situation.

Sounds like homeboy will probably need to find another team for next season.

Bear of Bad News 07-01-2013 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McDugan (Post 68406293)
It sounds like there is probably more to this story.

I agree with this - the way the story was set up in the original post, there's obviously only one answer. There's got to be a backstory.

soldier0829 07-01-2013 11:34 AM

I don't really look at fees as giving me X number of minutes of ice time, I look at them as giving me the opportunity to play as a part of a competitive (albeit minimally at my level) hockey team.

I agree it is poor form to put yourself ahead of the team. Well said leftwinger37.

The Tikkanen 07-01-2013 11:36 AM

No matter what the back story the guy needs to be cut loose. If he's a detriment to the team where guys are scared to put him on the ice in important situations then he needs to drop down a division. And if he's not happy with his ice time and wants a bigger role he needs to drop down a division. Unfortunately, in my 20 years of rec league experience I can not remember too many times when men are honest with themselves and volunteer to drop down. Most need to be pushed down. The good of the many outweigh the good of the few, if you're on a team that cares about winning a championship and you don't, you just want to show up, do your thing and get fair ice time then you need to find a different team. It's not that hard. There are plenty of teams with guys like that, who just come to have a good time and drink some beers after.

tarheelhockey 07-01-2013 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McDugan (Post 68406293)
Ultimately, if it pissed off the rest of the team, then it was a bad move on his part with regard to being a "team player." BUT if it was something he felt he had to do as a matter of principle because he was sick of being sh-t on by the rest of the team, the it's hard to blame him. Neither of these scenarios makes him "right" or "wrong" in an absolute sense.

Exactly. We don't know enough about his motivations to make a judgment of "right" or "wrong".

He certainly sounds unhappy to be on that team, which may say something about him... or maybe it says something about the team.

jazzykat 07-01-2013 12:03 PM

It depends on if his expectations were in line with what your team's are with regards to equal ice time.

E.g. if your whole team was in it, to win it then he should shut up and sit down. If you guys are a happy go lucky bunch of beer drinkers then it was a dick move to make someone sit.

Thesensation19* 07-01-2013 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kr580 (Post 68350023)
If it's beer league it's not cool to cheat someone out of their shift, IMO. I don't get everyone's excitement about playoffs. You're playing the lowest form of ice hockey available to you. Have fun, don't get all serious about something that doesn't even matter. You might get what, one, two games more if you win? Everyone pays the same, they should get equal chance to be out there no matter the situation. What happens when the stacked line doesn't do a thing? You still lost and now you have people on the bench not too happy. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

If they're up for sitting to help out the team, go for it, but not if they have a problem with it.

Then again I don't have that 'drive' that most guys have. I'm out there for exercise, not winning or losing, so I don't really care either way personally.

IMHO... when you play adult league hockey, you should be ready for competition. Simple as that. Idc how low of a level of hockey it is... the point of the sport, the game and the league is to win the championship at the end of the season.

I have been on plenty of adult league teams at all different divisions and levels. The most current team I am on just won the championship. I have never won it before in adult league and I can tell you why. Every team I have been on always has people who complain about ice time. People who complain about people not passing.

On my new team, we have a good group of guys ranging from all different forms of hockey skill. We all became friends, we all understand what it takes to win, We have 3 lines who play one after the other and no one complains about anyone else. If you dont make the pass, we say next time. If you stay out a bit to long, we address it. If were losing with little time left IN AN IMPORTANT GAME. We put our best 5 guys out hoping to tie or win the game. No one cares about 1 minute of more time.

You can expect bad attitudes or bad players on your adult leagues. But the best teams will have the good group of guys who stay competitive in the season, win or lose, and have fun doing it. 1 minute is not a killer. Make it up to him next time.

jsykes 07-01-2013 12:11 PM

I'd say there is likely more to it.

From a personal situation, I did this to a team at one point, though I wasnt low on the team, I wasnt the "first line" either.

Our captain took winning too much and more importantly, cared about his personal ice time too much. He's also one of those guys that gets lucky points a lot, not really a very good player skill wise, but somehow ends up with lucky points and makes himself first line center even though he cant skate with the first line etc.

We had a game with several penalties in the third period. We had three lines rotating and twice the line before ours took a penalty. I volunteered to sit the first one. The captain had taken that penalty, I sat for him. Comes around to our shift again and another penalty. Captain had just gotten out of the box and only had been on ice for his shift for 30 seconds or so. He stays out on our line, keeping me off the ice for most of my shift. I didnt say anything, eventually got on for about a 20 second shift and came off with the rest of my line.

We get around to our next shift, its now towards the end of the game, down one. We go out and are out for about 20 seconds and a faceoff. He decides to try to make a change and stack the line. I call BS and stay out. He gets all over me about not sitting for the team, excuse me, I had already sat out two shifts in a row (and these hacks take 2.5 minute shifts so you only get about three a period. I say eff him, I'm taking my ice.

We dont win (regular season game btw). I get a rash of **** from him in the dressing room. I havent played for him since.

So in a case like mine, I'm all about saying F the team and taking my ice. In this case we really dont seem to know the entire story so not sure who is wrong.

Jarick 07-01-2013 12:12 PM

I can only tell you how my team would handle this.

As a team we roll three lines, regardless of PP, PK, or close games at the end. BUT we stress short shifts, and sometimes you might only get 20-30 seconds.

If a guy refused to change with his line, he's putting himself above the team and that's unacceptable. BUT on our team, he should have got just as many shifts as everyone else, more or less.

I think once or twice our captain asked the team if we wanted to throw out our best line in a close game in the playoffs, and I think we said yes. But it's not something we do regularly.

Sleepy 07-01-2013 12:26 PM

Once we've locked up a playoff spot, we don't ice the best 6 in the last minute.
When we are still fighting for a spot, we ice the best 6 to try and get the tie/win.
In the playoffs, we ice the best 6 in the final minute if it's close to get the win.

For the playoffs, I think your guy had the wrong attitude. It's not like the captain asked him to sit the entire 3rd period. Normally when a guy makes a stand like that for the final game of the season, it means he's unhappy and isn't coming back and it's a big "f u" to the rest of his team and/or captain.

Edit: See jsykes post. It normally means the guy isn't happy and isn't coming back regardless of who is wrong/right. If it got to that point, it's time to part ways.

mistrhanky 07-01-2013 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleepy (Post 68414061)
Once we've locked up a playoff spot, we don't ice the best 6 in the last minute.
When we are still fighting for a spot, we ice the best 6 to try and get the tie/win.
In the playoffs, we ice the best 6 in the final minute if it's close to get the win.

For the playoffs, I think your guy had the wrong attitude. It's not like the captain asked him to sit the entire 3rd period. Normally when a guy makes a stand like that for the final game of the season, it means he's unhappy and isn't coming back and it's a big "f u" to the rest of his team and/or captain.

Edit: See jsykes post. It normally means the guy isn't happy and isn't coming back regardless of who is wrong/right. If it got to that point, it's time to part ways.

As someone who is A) not a guy that would be on the top two lines and B) the co-manager of the team, I agree mostly with Jarick. We do not change lines for PP or PK. We do all pay a lot of money to play and equal time is important. We also don't kick guys off unless they are total asshats. That said, if it comes down to winning a big game like that, I would give up a shift if I had too in the last 5 mins. I think the big thing is, you need to air this stuff out before the playoffs and really before the season. Let everyone know that it is the managers call in these situations and if you are not on board with that, then you won't be on the team.

ccarrigan 07-01-2013 03:28 PM

Thanks for the input everyone.

To clear things up, the person in question and the captain had some back and forths in a prior game (something about more hustle, something about flailing after a trip, etc..). Nothing huge but there were obviously some things between them. The person ALSO did have to sit for a shift because of a penalty at his position, but that's normal.

We always do lines and equal ice time, so nobody gets shafted for play time. I just thought that it was short sighted to want his extra minute where we could win the game. I'm the worst player on the line our captain put together, and I had twice as many points as him that session, and the captain sat himself because he's not great either.

PK Cronin 07-01-2013 03:50 PM

I find that as a player you need to know your role on the team. Are you one of the guys who can bring your team back in crunch time or not? If you are, you want to be out there. If not, you should just accept that with 3 minutes left to go in a playoff game you aren't going to be playing much, if at all.

I've been on teams where I barely touched the ice and others where I've been out during the crucial moments. Everyone might have paid the same amount, but I go to win and to play hard (with the realization that I and others have to get up for work the next day), so if limiting someone's ice time in the final 3 minutes can give our team another game I see no reason not to do it.

TickleMeYandle 07-01-2013 04:29 PM

I'm not on the PK or PP lines, and sometimes that means I get very little ice time in a game, usually it means I get about as much as everyone else.

A couple of games ago we had a ridiculous number of penalties and I missed a bunch of shifts - instead of playing about 15 minutes or so, I maybe got only 9-10 minutes of ice time.

But hey...it's a team sport, and I accept that sometimes it's best for the team if I'm not on the ice. In that league, I'm one of the worst skaters. In my other league, I'm one of the better skaters - so I get all sorts of ice time and I figure it all evens out.

All for one, one for all seems to be a good way to look at it.

Noir 07-02-2013 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kr580 (Post 68350023)
If it's beer league it's not cool to cheat someone out of their shift, IMO. I don't get everyone's excitement about playoffs. You're playing the lowest form of ice hockey available to you. Have fun, don't get all serious about something that doesn't even matter. You might get what, one, two games more if you win? Everyone pays the same, they should get equal chance to be out there no matter the situation. What happens when the stacked line doesn't do a thing? You still lost and now you have people on the bench not too happy. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

If they're up for sitting to help out the team, go for it, but not if they have a problem with it.

Then again I don't have that 'drive' that most guys have. I'm out there for exercise, not winning or losing, so I don't really care either way personally.


The 3 minutes you give up or gamble to someone else who has a better chance could buy you 1 or 2 more play off games which means... "X" amount of additional shifts for the sacrifice of 1.


Or, you can keep your 1 shift and screw off over everyone's chances at playing additional games.




I've played with my fair share of beginners. I really don't mind them except for the ones who significantly over estimate their skill level and their attitudes along with it.

shoeshine boy 07-02-2013 08:30 AM

the guy is definitely not a "team first" guy. maybe he should go play an individual sport or if he's so concerned about ice time, go to stick time instead.
what I hate are guys like this who whine about ice time during the playoffs but only made a fraction of the games in the regular season. it drives me crazy when you have a game with a short bench and then the next game those guys who didn't show for the previous one sit there and ***** about ice time.


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